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01-29-2008, 07:50 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by fishy Quote
Hi Oceanic,

I have a K10D and love it. I love it so much I'd like to tell you to go and get one. But I'm not.

The only sound advice I can give you is go out and play; find a nice retailer that holds all models you are interested in, and play. Play around, see what you like and dislike in each model. I might upset a few people here, but in my opinion a camera that's easy to use and operate will end up giving you more pleasure and better pictures than a "better" (?) camera that you're fighting with.

Again, pixel-peepers might disagree, but I think there is very little between the different cameras. Lenses are, of course, another story, but for each camera there's plenty of good lenses.

In the end you might regret saving a few bucks and have your camera gathering dust because it doesn't work for you...

So, my 2 c: play, and get the camera you like, the one that fits your hands and way of thinking...

Good luck!
I think this is the best advice you can get. All dslrs / systems have strengths and weaknesses, but all have good image quality. But the camera you play with the shop and really like the feel of etc will be the one that make you want to go and take pics and will be the you enjoy using.

I keep my voigtlander 125 on my desk, because I see it and say stuff whatever I'm doing I'm going to go find something to take pics of. I just love using that lens. I think cameras are the same.

01-29-2008, 09:18 AM   #17
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Lowell Goudge and Peter Zack just opened a door down memory lane. I still remember those days using the Sekonic lightmeter with the old (2nd hand) Spotmatic. And I also have to agree 100% with them. Nowadays, you have auto everything and you still complain about almost everything not being exactly the way you dream it. Maybe some of these people should spend a few weeks taking pictures with what we had 25 to 30 years ago. I'm prtty sure a lot of complaining would stop and they'd show more appreciation for what they have today.
01-29-2008, 09:38 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I'm getting sick of these threads. I shouldn't even post this and need to stop opening these threads. I'll piss some people off with this but I don't want this forum to become DPReview.
I am not directing this at any particular poster but the general tone of many new threads and posts that all follow the same theme.

To begin with I can guarantee that these cameras will exceed the skills of the owner/user for years to come, myself included.

Have any of the whiners ever shot film? Do you know how to use a manual light meter? What it's like to wait a week to see if your shots were any good? How to use a camera that has no automation and can work without batteries because it has no electronics to speak of.

Geez I'm sick of this crap about how bad the K10D was and how the K20D is not much of an upgrade.

Having shot film for nearly 25 years and now a few years with digital, I'm ecstatic about both cameras and the huge leaps forward from what I had to do to take one properly exposed image 5-10 years ago.

If you don't like the K10D and the new offerings don't interest you much then go buy a Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus or whatever camera makes you happy.

The camera is only a tool and if you expect it to take the pictures for you, well maybe you should stick to video games. Learn how to shoot with whatever brand makes you happy.

"I'm just not seeing the upgrade. Sure it supposed to have better image quality" Huh??? What th hell is that supposed to mean? Cameras take pictures the last time I checked. If you want to use it as a toaster or an iPod, then it will most likely be a disappointment. Lots of photographers have made a living or taken award winning shots with cameras that had and have far fewer features. Also if this is all about buffer sizes and shooting like a machine gunner, then you need to learn some technique.

If you want the K200D to do what the K20D can, then what's the point of selling 2 bodies? If the K20D sucks so much, then what's the point of building any bodies?

These types of threads are robbing Rice High of a job. He looks like a Pentax supporter compared to many of the comments I've heard lately.

Rant done.
You tell em Peter... register APPLAUSE here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
01-29-2008, 01:27 PM   #19
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It is not the camera that takes great photos, it is a great photographer that takes them. If you can't take a great photo with a 3 year old 6mp camera, then you can't take a great photo with a brand-new 14, 20, or 36 MP camera.

The trend towards "latest greatest" is _not_ driven by great photographers, it is driven by amateurs with too much money. Great photographers can take great photos with old, out-dated cameras just as well as with new ones.

Which exact features of that Xsi or K20D do you need that you _couldn't_ do with any other camera? Are you shooting motorsports? Do you need 6FPS @ 10MP? Well, then the k10/20 isn't for you. Are you shooting landscapes? K10D is excellent for that (I know). Fashion? Portraits? Hell, the best camera I know of for portraits is an 8x10. Those have been around for a couple of times longer than I have.

Don't listen to marketing departments - clearly define what you need to accomplish and what it requires to get there. Once you've done that, you'll probably find plenty of cameras well below your price range that will achieve your goals. (Most of the new features you'll hear about will probably not be on that list, if you're realistic.)

I sell beautiful 11x17 and 12x15 inch prints easily that were shot with the k10d. So, let's not try to say that you need a 14/20/30 MP camera to make reasonable prints. If you want 36"+ prints that look museum quality, expect to go well above the range of any standard format dSLR. I would suggest sticking with large format film cameras with that. (Setting proper expectations.)

!c

01-29-2008, 03:42 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
From your response, I take it "senior member" has special significance for you.
Eh, I'm senior to some, junior to others. Seem to be getting older faster these days, though.




Now get off my lawn!

01-29-2008, 03:54 PM   #21
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Eh, I'm not as old as most of the members on the Pentax forum, so I have nothing to brag about.
That being said, I am very happy with my camera's built-in selenium meter, so I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
Most beginners want more advanced features and auto-everything, when they haven't even mastered the basics of exposure.
01-29-2008, 04:39 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by ftpaddict Quote
[... ]I am very happy with my camera's built-in selenium meter [...]
Wait, what? What camera are you talking about?
01-29-2008, 04:42 PM   #23
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If you want the camera now, I would suggest the K10D, as it is by far the best camera you have listed. I cannot believe how many useful features it has. Then come 12 months, if you feel that the K20D has more useful features, then you can upgrade.

The D60 seems an upgrade of the D40X yet still has the 3 AF points
The A200 is new and a replacement for the A100, and seems to be good
The XSi is an upgrade of the XTi with bigger screen, yet still only 9 AF points

None of the above have the extra features of the K10D, yet the K10D as a run out model is the same price.

I love my K10D an would never go back to a more basic camera (unless it was a backup camera only)

The image quality is excellent, in fact EOS 5D and Nikon D200 user friends of mine (not least the 400D(XTI) and D80 users), admit that the image quality is on par with theirs.

I know we all say go to a store and try them all, but in this instance, the K10D is superior to the new Nikon Canon and Sony models (it is on par with models the next step up) that at the price, it cannot be beaten.

01-29-2008, 04:53 PM   #24
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On more thing, ignore this "more MP equals better IQ" it does not.

My old DS (6mp) has a darn site more IQ than any 12mp or 14MP Compact camera will ever have.

It is all to do with how the camera processes the image, the size of the sensor and above all else, the optics attatched to the camera.

The K10D, does have a great IQ, better than my DS, even though it does have 4MP more.

The Canon and Nikon have the same MP and will have an equivilent IQ, maybe better, maybe not.
But, to enhance the image, and have more control of the image, the K10D will will give you more options. So for a similar price, the K10D is better.
01-29-2008, 08:54 PM   #25
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Original Poster
Thanks all for responding. I didnt mean this to be ragging on the K20 or anything. I just wanted some opinions overall. I realize its the person that matters and not the camera, but when you feel like you have a good eye you want the camera to match.

Id probably shoot RAW only and I know MP dont matter as much as they would have you think..my concern was all these new 10mp models being updated with the same 10mp but likely better IQ due to processing etc.
01-29-2008, 09:30 PM   #26
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ONLY TWO MORE DAYS FOR YOU TO QUALIFY FOR THE $100 REBATE. BETTER MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
01-29-2008, 10:10 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
To begin with I can guarantee that these cameras will exceed the skills of the owner/user for years to come, myself included.
Really, I've always wanted to have the extent of my skills/experience defined by someone that doesn't know me! BTW, are you offering a money-back guarantee?

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Have any of the whiners ever shot film? Do you know how to use a manual light meter? What it's like to wait a week to see if your shots were any good? How to use a camera that has no automation and can work without batteries because it has no electronics to speak of.
These days I prefer to use the histogram on my DSLR to assess exposures when shooting my Mamiya 7 system, discrete hand held light meters are so passé.

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
These types of threads are robbing Rice High of a job. He looks like a Pentax supporter compared to many of the comments I've heard lately.
Franky I'd rather read a bit of constructive criticism than a rant like you just delivered and I think it does little justice to the forum.
01-29-2008, 10:36 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oceanic Quote
Yeah I hear you, I took a look at all those others too and decided on the K10...now I have to consider the updated versions of all those models next to the same K10..

But yeah I'm still leaning towards it anyways.
The K10D will still be a better value unless there is a specific feature only found elsewhere.

I talked myself out of upgrading, but maybe next time...
01-29-2008, 10:53 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
I talked myself out of upgrading, but maybe next time...
That's usually the best way to go I reckon. That's why I didn't upgrade my istDs. I think I will be purchasing a K20D, in spite of it's millions of shortcomings!
01-29-2008, 11:09 PM   #30
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Ahhhh the skills that have been lost. What about being good at loading film in your pocket and being able to do it and talk at the same time.......... No black bag for me. ISO....please, we all thought God had descended when we got 200 ASA film. Those are the days when to "push" wasn't an offensive expression........ Auto this auto that......give me a break.
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