Comparing the typical Pentax shooter to the typical Canikon...

elliott · 08-26-2012, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by CyberManiaK

You gave 2 guys a camera, and 1a) return with 10 pictures but 3 underexposed and 2a) return with 10 pictures but 9 underexposed.. which one know more ?? (all the pictures have strong moment)

Depends on how you are judging exposure, what if the person with 9 underexposed did it for a reason?

**patrick9** · 08-26-2012, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by CyberManiaK

On the Pentax side I have been watching a lot of pictures on flickr groups and also here in the forum. And I see a A LOT of pictures underexposed/out of focus,

Personally I prefer my shots a touch under exposed, If I handed you my camera odds are it is in M with a M lens or P. if my DA is on. If in P it will have an -.5 EV. That is just my preference , not because I don't know what I am doing. I do shoot mostly outdoors If indoors th EV is set to 0.0 , and I will darken if needed in PP.
I tend to march to a different drummer. That may be why I choose Pentax. It is what I like and I am not worried about others opinion of me or my tools.
I do have a neighbor that has bought a Cannon a few months ago. after watching me shoot fireworks his kids were setting off. The other day I asked him how the new camera was going . He said it stayed on auto but he would like to use it better. He has been invited to go shoot with a friend and me to learn more. We go out a couple Saturday mornings a month. I don't know anything about Cannon but we are sure we can get him comfortable off of auto

CyberManiaK · 08-26-2012, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by elliott

Depends on how you are judging exposure, what if the person with 9 underexposed did it for a reason?

Judging exposure when there is something white, and the outcome comes white and not as middle grey like cameras interpret the white tones but not blown and with plenty of detail, and if you look at the histogram is filled with data on it, shadows-midtones-highlights.

Originally posted by patrick9

Personally I prefer my shots a touch under exposed, If I handed you my camera odds are it is in M with a M lens or P. if my DA is on. If in P it will have an -.5 EV. That is just my preference , not because I don't know what I am doing. I do shoot mostly outdoors If indoors th EV is set to 0.0 , and I will darken if needed in PP. I tend to march to a different drummer. That may be why I choose Pentax. It is what I like and I am not worried about others opinion of me or my tools. I do have a neighbor that has bought a Cannon a few months ago. after watching me shoot fireworks his kids were setting off. The other day I asked him how the new camera was going . He said it stayed on auto but he would like to use it better. He has been invited to go shoot with a friend and me to learn more. We go out a couple Saturday mornings a month. I don't know anything about Cannon but we are sure we can get him comfortable off of auto

My camera is always on M mode, rarely on P.. But I understand what you do here.. But having always on -.5 EV could be troublesome depending on the metering you are using and if there is White tones and black on the scene. You are still underexposing something that by nature is underexposed.

If I hand my camera to somebody else to take me a picture with my GF for example, then I will switch it to Auto... I don't want to take the risk of a crap picture, at least I will have an "auto" raw that can be corrected lol..

Kudos... That's the attitude, friends don't let friends take pictures in Auto, you must push them to go out of the "comfort" zone

elliott · 08-26-2012, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by CyberManiaK

Judging exposure when there is something white, and the outcome comes white and not as middle grey like cameras interpret the white tones but not blown and with plenty of detail, and if you look at the histogram is filled with data on it, shadows-midtones-highlights.

So if the photographer intended for it to be underexposed, he is wrong?

CyberManiaK · 08-26-2012, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by elliott

So if the photographer intended for it to be underexposed, he is wrong?

Nope, it's not wrong if he KNOW why it's underexposing. But give an example on which situation an underexposed shot will be the good one. And if you haven a visual example will be better so I can understand that.

Jonathan Mac · 08-27-2012, 02:44 AM

If I hand my camera to someone else for a shot of the mrs & I I would put it into Auto mode. The pain is that Auto mode doesn't over-ride the focus point selection, so I have to manually set that to auto too, or these days I tend to just centre it and tell the person that it will focus in the middle (which is usually what you want for touristy type shots of yourself & the mrs).

hangman43 · 08-27-2012, 05:47 AM

Here is my theory about Pentaxians on the other forums that I am a member of there are a lot more Canikons than anything else and 90% of them have never had a all manual lens attached to their camera one reason is the lack of ability to do so without adapters and the other is lack knowing how to use it. Take a poll on here and see what the percentage of manual lens have been used I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more of us that have used them which to me means we had to learn how to do things in non auto modes that most of the Canikon users never have had to learn. Both of my daughters have Pentax DSLR's and both use manual lens my youngest daughters favorite lens is the M100 F/4 macro and she gets some very good shots with it I know most of her friends would be lost if they had to do the same.

ChooseAName · 08-27-2012, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by hangman43

Take a poll on here and see what the percentage of manual lens have been used I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more of us that have used them which to me means we had to learn how to do things in non auto modes that most of the Canikon users never have had to learn. .

Very true, I think I've gotten more knowledgeable as I've been using MF lenses almost exclusively for the past 2 months. But I will admit that the green button in manual mode lets me "cheat" a lot

Anvh · 08-27-2012, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by CyberManiaK

You gave 2 guys a camera, and 1a) return with 10 pictures but 3 underexposed and 2a) return with 10 pictures but 9 underexposed.. which one know more ?? (all the pictures have strong moment)

#1 most likely.
About some photos here, don't forget the differences in monitors.
I'm pretty sure some are quite clueless when it comes to monitor calibration and are using almost full brightness with their LCD, so for them the photo might look good but they would look underexpose for a correctly calibrated monitor

djupdal · 08-27-2012, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Jonathan Mac

If I hand my camera to someone else for a shot of the mrs & I I would put it into Auto mode. The pain is that Auto mode doesn't over-ride the focus point selection, so I have to manually set that to auto too, or these days I tend to just centre it and tell the person that it will focus in the middle (which is usually what you want for touristy type shots of yourself & the mrs).

Yes, I used to have that problem too with my K200D. And even worse, I like to use back-button focus which nobody understands even when I tell them how it works, and switching to auto-mode does not override that either.

Having just upgraded to K30 I have solved those problems by making one of the user modes to "guest mode" where everything is set to auto and every button is mapped to what most people expect them to.

CyberManiaK · 08-27-2012, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by hangman43

Here is my theory about Pentaxians on the other forums that I am a member of there are a lot more Canikons than anything else and 90% of them have never had a all manual lens attached to their camera one reason is the lack of ability to do so without adapters and the other is lack knowing how to use it. Take a poll on here and see what the percentage of manual lens have been used I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more of us that have used them which to me means we had to learn how to do things in non auto modes that most of the Canikon users never have had to learn. Both of my daughters have Pentax DSLR's and both use manual lens my youngest daughters favorite lens is the M100 F/4 macro and she gets some very good shots with it I know most of her friends would be lost if they had to do the same.

Don't forget that the Nikon entry levels, doesn't have a drive motor, so there a lot of "AF" lenses that doesn't focus on those bodys and had to be MF, and let alone propietary unchipped lenses.. Entry levels up to the D90 doesn't meter also ! So thats harder, and have to learn to read the Histogram. Thats why I would never ever recommend an entry level Nikon.. On the Canon side they even meter without a lens attached, lol.. And you Pentax guys have the ability to even "auto" stop down manual lenses.

Originally posted by Anvh

#1 most likely.
About some photos here, don't forget the differences in monitors.
I'm pretty sure some are quite clueless when it comes to monitor calibration and are using almost full brightness with their LCD, so for them the photo might look good but they would look underexpose for a correctly calibrated monitor

Might be, so could be that they don't use the histogram either ?

Really I'm enjoying this thread without the fanboys that we can always face on a canikon discussion

Anvh · 08-27-2012, 12:51 PM

I think that most actually don't use the histogram, it's hard to read that correctly you know.

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm

I only look at the histogram to get an indication of clipping since i expose to the right, and then use the computer to get the desired exposure.

**patrick9** · 08-27-2012, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by CyberManiaK

But having always on -.5 EV could be troublesome depending on the metering you are using and if there is White tones and black on the scene. You are still underexposing something that by nature is underexposed.

My camera is not always set at -5. Sometimes it is set to -2.0

. Actually some times it is even set up to +1.0, but very seldom. Depends on lighting and story I want to tell. I assume that is why the EV button was installed. So as to change it as I see fit. My camera only has three metering points, and I do not have a light meter. So generaly I meter the area I want to be the point then compose. ( center weighted) But I still like a slightly darker /richer shot. Just my personal taste.

Anvh · 08-28-2012, 12:42 PM

EV is set at +0.7 here since pentax often underexpose so it's strange to hear you are actual even underexposing more...

**THoog** · 08-28-2012, 02:17 PM

Based on a very small sample set at work, I would have to vote "more than" - I know of two Pentax, two Canon, and three Nikon shooters (other than myself). One of the Pentaxians does some pro work on weekends, which would really skew the average, but the staff photographer / graphics guy shoots Nikon. The other Pentaxian is the only one to shoot manual glass (but not LBA like me). I'm the one that gets asked general questions, like recently: "what is a lens hood?"

View Poll Results: IMO/IME, the average Pentax DSLR owner knows (...) than average Canikon DSLR owner
More than	61	57.01%
Less than	4	3.74%
the same as	42	39.25%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

08-27-2012, 07:12 PM	#43
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	Originally posted by CyberManiaK But having always on -.5 EV could be troublesome depending on the metering you are using and if there is White tones and black on the scene. You are still underexposing something that by nature is underexposed. My camera is not always set at -5. Sometimes it is set to -2.0. Actually some times it is even set up to +1.0, but very seldom. Depends on lighting and story I want to tell. I assume that is why the EV button was installed. So as to change it as I see fit. My camera only has three metering points, and I do not have a light meter. So generaly I meter the area I want to be the point then compose. ( center weighted) But I still like a slightly darker /richer shot. Just my personal taste. Last edited by patrick9; 08-27-2012 at 08:15 PM.

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08-26-2012, 07:29 PM	#31
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by CyberManiaK You gave 2 guys a camera, and 1a) return with 10 pictures but 3 underexposed and 2a) return with 10 pictures but 9 underexposed.. which one know more ?? (all the pictures have strong moment) Depends on how you are judging exposure, what if the person with 9 underexposed did it for a reason?

08-26-2012, 07:33 PM	#32
patrick9 Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Murfreesboro Tennessee Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,458	Originally posted by CyberManiaK On the Pentax side I have been watching a lot of pictures on flickr groups and also here in the forum. And I see a A LOT of pictures underexposed/out of focus, Personally I prefer my shots a touch under exposed, If I handed you my camera odds are it is in M with a M lens or P. if my DA is on. If in P it will have an -.5 EV. That is just my preference , not because I don't know what I am doing. I do shoot mostly outdoors If indoors th EV is set to 0.0 , and I will darken if needed in PP. I tend to march to a different drummer. That may be why I choose Pentax. It is what I like and I am not worried about others opinion of me or my tools. I do have a neighbor that has bought a Cannon a few months ago. after watching me shoot fireworks his kids were setting off. The other day I asked him how the new camera was going . He said it stayed on auto but he would like to use it better. He has been invited to go shoot with a friend and me to learn more. We go out a couple Saturday mornings a month. I don't know anything about Cannon but we are sure we can get him comfortable off of auto

08-26-2012, 08:20 PM	#33
CyberManiaK Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 44	Originally posted by elliott Depends on how you are judging exposure, what if the person with 9 underexposed did it for a reason? Judging exposure when there is something white, and the outcome comes white and not as middle grey like cameras interpret the white tones but not blown and with plenty of detail, and if you look at the histogram is filled with data on it, shadows-midtones-highlights. Originally posted by patrick9 Personally I prefer my shots a touch under exposed, If I handed you my camera odds are it is in M with a M lens or P. if my DA is on. If in P it will have an -.5 EV. That is just my preference , not because I don't know what I am doing. I do shoot mostly outdoors If indoors th EV is set to 0.0 , and I will darken if needed in PP. I tend to march to a different drummer. That may be why I choose Pentax. It is what I like and I am not worried about others opinion of me or my tools. I do have a neighbor that has bought a Cannon a few months ago. after watching me shoot fireworks his kids were setting off. The other day I asked him how the new camera was going . He said it stayed on auto but he would like to use it better. He has been invited to go shoot with a friend and me to learn more. We go out a couple Saturday mornings a month. I don't know anything about Cannon but we are sure we can get him comfortable off of auto My camera is always on M mode, rarely on P.. But I understand what you do here.. But having always on -.5 EV could be troublesome depending on the metering you are using and if there is White tones and black on the scene. You are still underexposing something that by nature is underexposed. If I hand my camera to somebody else to take me a picture with my GF for example, then I will switch it to Auto... I don't want to take the risk of a crap picture, at least I will have an "auto" raw that can be corrected lol.. Kudos... That's the attitude, friends don't let friends take pictures in Auto, you must push them to go out of the "comfort" zone

08-26-2012, 08:31 PM	#34
elliott Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Photos: Albums Posts: 1,720	Originally posted by CyberManiaK Judging exposure when there is something white, and the outcome comes white and not as middle grey like cameras interpret the white tones but not blown and with plenty of detail, and if you look at the histogram is filled with data on it, shadows-midtones-highlights. So if the photographer intended for it to be underexposed, he is wrong?

08-26-2012, 08:35 PM	#35
CyberManiaK Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 44	Originally posted by elliott So if the photographer intended for it to be underexposed, he is wrong? Nope, it's not wrong if he KNOW why it's underexposing. But give an example on which situation an underexposed shot will be the good one. And if you haven a visual example will be better so I can understand that.

08-27-2012, 02:44 AM	#36
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	If I hand my camera to someone else for a shot of the mrs & I I would put it into Auto mode. The pain is that Auto mode doesn't over-ride the focus point selection, so I have to manually set that to auto too, or these days I tend to just centre it and tell the person that it will focus in the middle (which is usually what you want for touristy type shots of yourself & the mrs).

08-27-2012, 05:47 AM	#37
hangman43 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Hueytown, Alabama Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,508	Here is my theory about Pentaxians on the other forums that I am a member of there are a lot more Canikons than anything else and 90% of them have never had a all manual lens attached to their camera one reason is the lack of ability to do so without adapters and the other is lack knowing how to use it. Take a poll on here and see what the percentage of manual lens have been used I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more of us that have used them which to me means we had to learn how to do things in non auto modes that most of the Canikon users never have had to learn. Both of my daughters have Pentax DSLR's and both use manual lens my youngest daughters favorite lens is the M100 F/4 macro and she gets some very good shots with it I know most of her friends would be lost if they had to do the same.

08-27-2012, 05:52 AM	#38
ChooseAName Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southeast USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 390 Original Poster	Originally posted by hangman43 Take a poll on here and see what the percentage of manual lens have been used I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more of us that have used them which to me means we had to learn how to do things in non auto modes that most of the Canikon users never have had to learn. . Very true, I think I've gotten more knowledgeable as I've been using MF lenses almost exclusively for the past 2 months. But I will admit that the green button in manual mode lets me "cheat" a lot

08-27-2012, 09:24 AM	#39
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by CyberManiaK You gave 2 guys a camera, and 1a) return with 10 pictures but 3 underexposed and 2a) return with 10 pictures but 9 underexposed.. which one know more ?? (all the pictures have strong moment) #1 most likely. About some photos here, don't forget the differences in monitors. I'm pretty sure some are quite clueless when it comes to monitor calibration and are using almost full brightness with their LCD, so for them the photo might look good but they would look underexpose for a correctly calibrated monitor

08-27-2012, 09:39 AM	#40
djupdal New Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 8	Originally posted by Jonathan Mac If I hand my camera to someone else for a shot of the mrs & I I would put it into Auto mode. The pain is that Auto mode doesn't over-ride the focus point selection, so I have to manually set that to auto too, or these days I tend to just centre it and tell the person that it will focus in the middle (which is usually what you want for touristy type shots of yourself & the mrs). Yes, I used to have that problem too with my K200D. And even worse, I like to use back-button focus which nobody understands even when I tell them how it works, and switching to auto-mode does not override that either. Having just upgraded to K30 I have solved those problems by making one of the user modes to "guest mode" where everything is set to auto and every button is mapped to what most people expect them to.

08-27-2012, 11:24 AM	#41
CyberManiaK Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 44	Originally posted by hangman43 Here is my theory about Pentaxians on the other forums that I am a member of there are a lot more Canikons than anything else and 90% of them have never had a all manual lens attached to their camera one reason is the lack of ability to do so without adapters and the other is lack knowing how to use it. Take a poll on here and see what the percentage of manual lens have been used I would be willing to bet that there is a lot more of us that have used them which to me means we had to learn how to do things in non auto modes that most of the Canikon users never have had to learn. Both of my daughters have Pentax DSLR's and both use manual lens my youngest daughters favorite lens is the M100 F/4 macro and she gets some very good shots with it I know most of her friends would be lost if they had to do the same. Don't forget that the Nikon entry levels, doesn't have a drive motor, so there a lot of "AF" lenses that doesn't focus on those bodys and had to be MF, and let alone propietary unchipped lenses.. Entry levels up to the D90 doesn't meter also ! So thats harder, and have to learn to read the Histogram. Thats why I would never ever recommend an entry level Nikon.. On the Canon side they even meter without a lens attached, lol.. And you Pentax guys have the ability to even "auto" stop down manual lenses. Originally posted by Anvh #1 most likely. About some photos here, don't forget the differences in monitors. I'm pretty sure some are quite clueless when it comes to monitor calibration and are using almost full brightness with their LCD, so for them the photo might look good but they would look underexpose for a correctly calibrated monitor Might be, so could be that they don't use the histogram either ? Really I'm enjoying this thread without the fanboys that we can always face on a canikon discussion

08-27-2012, 12:51 PM	#42
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	I think that most actually don't use the histogram, it's hard to read that correctly you know. http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm I only look at the histogram to get an indication of clipping since i expose to the right, and then use the computer to get the desired exposure.

08-28-2012, 12:42 PM	#44
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	EV is set at +0.7 here since pentax often underexpose so it's strange to hear you are actual even underexposing more...

08-28-2012, 02:17 PM	#45
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Based on a very small sample set at work, I would have to vote "more than" - I know of two Pentax, two Canon, and three Nikon shooters (other than myself). One of the Pentaxians does some pro work on weekends, which would really skew the average, but the staff photographer / graphics guy shoots Nikon. The other Pentaxian is the only one to shoot manual glass (but not LBA like me). I'm the one that gets asked general questions, like recently: "what is a lens hood?"