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01-31-2008, 09:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Your idea has already implemented by Canon for their second EOS AF SLR called the EOS 650. Well, the feature is still there in the 450D! :-)
You mean the A-DEP mode? That's a similar idea to the "DEP" mode described a few posts up, but it relies on the autofocus mechanism, so a) everything you want in focus has to happen to align with an autofocus point and b) it still has to adjust focus. So, while perhaps somewhat useful (I haven't used it so I can't judge; I suspect the first objection is a deal-breaker) but not the same.

02-01-2008, 12:54 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
You mean the A-DEP mode? That's a similar idea to the "DEP" mode described a few posts up, but it relies on the autofocus mechanism, so a) everything you want in focus has to happen to align with an autofocus point and b) it still has to adjust focus. So, while perhaps somewhat useful (I haven't used it so I can't judge; I suspect the first objection is a deal-breaker) but not the same.
Yes, I refer to the A-DEP mode. Of course, if we still want something else, we still need to shift the focus manually and that's what MF Is used for.
02-01-2008, 01:25 AM   #18
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This whole idea (single F:stop) has been the backbone of fixed focal length cameras since the really old days (think Kodak Brownie).

One f:stop with a somewhat variable shutter. Anyone remember, or bought, a disposable camera lately? The fixed focal length of disposable cameras is based on the hyperfocal distance - the f:stop stays the same and the shutter speed is guessed at.

Old news --- is this why you really bought a SLR? With interchangable lenses? If you want to base everything on hyperfocal length - then get yourself a disposable camera and call it quits.

I guess you could set the f:stop - check out a good DOF calculator - superglue the lens barrel so the focus is set - disable AF - set the camera to AV mode and blast away. Now what fun would that be? You think AF is slow/cumbersome/in-the-way? Spend a day with a manual lens that moves through its focus range in a 350 degree twist on a cold day when the lubricant is jello - trust me - you will not complain about AF slowness again.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL
02-01-2008, 05:17 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
This whole idea (single F:stop) has been the backbone of fixed focal length cameras since the really old days (think Kodak Brownie).

One f:stop with a somewhat variable shutter. Anyone remember, or bought, a disposable camera lately? The fixed focal length of disposable cameras is based on the hyperfocal distance - the f:stop stays the same and the shutter speed is guessed at.
No no no! This has nothing to do with exposure.

The aperture can still vary, and with zoom lenses, so could the focal length. Nothing to do with that (except that the focus needs to be adjusted as those things change.)

The cameras you mention are also fixed focus -- so in a sense, they can do something a dSLR can't -- but it'd be an easy mode to add.

02-01-2008, 05:21 AM   #20
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A long time ago, when I first joined the forum, and shortly after ben began shooting pentax, there was a discussion thread about what people wanted from the cameras.

One point that came up was bracketing based upon focus.

Although this is moving away a little from the OP's idea of having a feature that performed a "hyper focal check" to insure that things at all focus points were in focus, the suggestion would be to move the focus through the bracketing process between the minimum and maximum distances for the objects captured by the focusing sensors.
02-01-2008, 07:04 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
A long time ago, when I first joined the forum, and shortly after ben began shooting pentax, there was a discussion thread about what people wanted from the cameras.

One point that came up was bracketing based upon focus.

Although this is moving away a little from the OP's idea of having a feature that performed a "hyper focal check" to insure that things at all focus points were in focus, the suggestion would be to move the focus through the bracketing process between the minimum and maximum distances for the objects captured by the focusing sensors.

Wow, that would be an excellent feature.




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02-01-2008, 04:32 PM   #22
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Matt, I'm with you on the hyperfocal distance feature. I wonder if it could work with manual focus lenses...
02-01-2008, 05:48 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
Matt, I'm with you on the hyperfocal distance feature. I wonder if it could work with manual focus lenses...
Well, not automatically, clearly. But surely it could beep/light when you hit the hyperfocal distance.

02-01-2008, 06:13 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Well, not automatically, clearly. But surely it could beep/light when you hit the hyperfocal distance.
I am not so sure on manual lenses.

To Beep at hyper focal distance assumes the camera knows apature focal length and focus distance.

Apature the camera does not know because it lacks apature coupling lever, Although this could be recitfied by the modification I have been promoging for ever, simply enter min and max and let the camera control it.

Focal length, you enter when a manual lens is put on the camera, so that is already taken care of,

but focusing distance it gets from the lens through the last pin added to the K mount when they migrated from KA to KAF (i.e. the furthest away from the lens locking pin. The camera has no way to know this distance without some smarts in the lens.
02-01-2008, 07:00 PM   #25
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This is a GREAT idea--I spent an entire trip to New York using hyperfocal (Nikon D50 and E-series 50/1.8), and it's pretty darn conveniant. When you use f8 or f11 as an "I don't care" aperture, you might as well just set the hyperfocal and forget about it.

My solution with a Sigma 28/1.8 is to put it in MF, pull the "clutch" and focus the hyperfocal, then put the clutch back into AF position. The focus ring doesn't move, and the camera doesn't focus.
02-01-2008, 10:31 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
(Or actually, since this is a software idea, it could be a firmware update for any existing camera.)

It would be cool if there were a focus mode between automatic and manual which would automatically keep the lens focused at the hyperfocal distance for the selected aperture. New lenses don't have aperture rings and distance scales, so it's a bit hard to do this by hand. (I'm interested to hear any tricks you might have, though.)

The default circle of confusion used in the calculation could be based on some reasonable multiple of the photosite size, but should be customizable for degree of blur one is willing to accept.

Is this crazy notion? Doesn't seem like it to me, but perhaps I'm overlooking something.
Well my spin here a week or so ago was similar. I proposed a Depth of field priority setting.
in this mode the multiple focal sensors would count themselves and if they couldn't agree that all check points were in focus, then it would push the settings until it got there.
Sort of an intelligent aperature. It presupposes an AF system that can tell how far away things are at each focal point, and which knows the hyper focal characteristics of the lens installed.

It would seem that if the goal were to get an entire photo in focus, we would measure the distance camera to object at all focal points around the photo, contemplete the hyper focal characteristics of the lens, and select an F stop that would accomodate all of the varied distances detected by thte multipoint AF sensor. Finally, the program line would adjust the ISO and time to make that F stop usable.

Implicit in this design sequence is that the AF system would optimize the focus setting
of the lens so as to make it possible to bring things into focus---by forcing the lens to the optimal focus point.

I think this is a little different from what you have proposed, but it is headed for the same issue.
04-14-2008, 10:35 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I suppose the autofocus system could stay active and blink a warning if it thinks your selected focus sensor is pointed at something too close.
I am not sure it can evaluate out of focus without changing the lens focus point transiently.
So, apparently the Nikon D60 has a feature where, when manually focusing, it tells you which way to turn to get the selected point into focus. That implies that this sub-idea is at least possible too.
04-15-2008, 09:26 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
New lenses don't have aperture rings and distance scales, so it's a bit hard to do this by hand.
Well, both my 21mm DA and 70 DA lenses have distance scales and depth of field scales and that's all you need to do this manually. Handy for me because with my style of photography, everything in the image is sharp from foreground to infinity (with rare exceptions). Aperture rings have no relevance for this but perhaps you meant to say depth of field scale. Of course, the very concept of depth of field is rather arbitrary, depending as it does on the circle of confusion and what constitutes acceptable sharpness.

I agree, however, that most lenses nowadays lack these features, especially zooms and I suspect that far more people shoot with zooms than with primes. The idea of setting hyperfocal automatically via camera software would probably be useful for some people, especially if it were customizable like you mention. I wonder if any manufacturer will take the bait.

Richard
04-15-2008, 10:09 AM   #29
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When I asked for the same feature in K20D in this thread, no body seem to have noticed
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/9969-realistic-nex...aded#post79562
04-15-2008, 02:04 PM   #30
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Hey guys,
All those answers are magic to me. I go back to the spotmatic, 6x7 vintage and digital compact so you got me slightly lost. I'm impressed at how much digital is alive and well...all that on my question on hyperfocal distance! So how do we pick Pentax's brain on that one? I like that firware update mattdm suggested and I will try and send them something. Maybe each one of you should also?
Great bunch of aficionados!
Richard
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