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09-13-2012, 08:43 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by bmonki Quote
Pentax makes great cameras, but they are def in a rut right now. Everyone and everything is going FF, ya you may be a pro shooting APS-C today, but in a year or two it'll be utterly unprofessional to show up with a camera of that quality charging the prices that photographers charge, morally I could not do it knwing what I know about photography technology and its a slap in the face to the customer who wants bigger and better prints of there wedding day. FF is a must if you ever plan to be a pro, if you never have no plans on being a pro what pentax has now is just fine... but still a rip off compared to everyone else...
I don't mean to stir the pot, but... you do realize there are plenty of pro's shooting APS-C right?

09-13-2012, 08:55 AM   #62
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Just because Sony is feeling the FF market and Canikon are onto cheap FF models, it does not mean that everyone and everything is going FF. Stop being a sucker for devaluation of the present whenever you see something in the horizon.
09-13-2012, 10:08 AM   #63
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Even with no FF and a lackluster announcement of new products, I don't get all the gear-based Pentaxian on Pentax hate. Sure it's fine to be dissatisfied or want something better. It's fine to say you're dissatisfied or criticize the company, but honestly is there any difference in how the Pentax brand was before the announcements and now? To my knowledge Pentax only ever mentioned FF when they said they weren't doing it for now. It seems like people latched on to this FF pipe dream and lost their minds. Now they are pissed about these "crappy" new cameras and we haven't even seen how these "new" cameras perform. I'm withholding judgement on most of the announcements until I see how this stuff performs. I'd also add that if I needed something Pentax can't/don't offer, I wouldn't think twice about finding it somewhere else.

I'm more bothered by an apparent lack of any decent marketing on behalf of Pentax. Do they actually have anyone doing that? Do they still have a marketing department? Sure they didn't release a FF camera, but they did release things. Looking at Facebook, everyone is all hot and bothered about Apple iPhones, Nikon D600s, Sony FF cameras, and I even saw something about a new Tamron lens. Pentax made 8 (or was it really 9? HD coating?) releases and the only mention I've seen, beyond the late-night unnoticed posts from the other night, was Pentax regurgitating press releases in the most uninspiring way possible. How are people supposed to get excited about Pentax if Pentax don't seem excited?
09-13-2012, 10:10 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Crosshair Quote
Just because Sony is feeling the FF market and Canikon are onto cheap FF models, it does not mean that everyone and everything is going FF. Stop being a sucker for devaluation of the present whenever you see something in the horizon.
Sony went into FF with DSLR 3 years or so ago and they stoped after a year.... what does that tell you?

09-13-2012, 10:48 AM   #65
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@meeverett

Marketing has been the achille's heel for Pentax many years now. They just don't seem to know how to create a buzz or excitement for their products. And when they do create a buzz, it's not always for the right things:

How NOT to advertise
09-13-2012, 11:54 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by meeverett Quote
Even with no FF and a lackluster announcement of new products, I don't get all the gear-based Pentaxian on Pentax hate. Sure it's fine to be dissatisfied or want something better. It's fine to say you're dissatisfied or criticize the company, but honestly is there any difference in how the Pentax brand was before the announcements and now? To my knowledge Pentax only ever mentioned FF when they said they weren't doing it for now. It seems like people latched on to this FF pipe dream and lost their minds. Now they are pissed about these "crappy" new cameras and we haven't even seen how these "new" cameras perform. I'm withholding judgement on most of the announcements until I see how this stuff performs. I'd also add that if I needed something Pentax can't/don't offer, I wouldn't think twice about finding it somewhere else.

I'm more bothered by an apparent lack of any decent marketing on behalf of Pentax. Do they actually have anyone doing that? Do they still have a marketing department? Sure they didn't release a FF camera, but they did release things. Looking at Facebook, everyone is all hot and bothered about Apple iPhones, Nikon D600s, Sony FF cameras, and I even saw something about a new Tamron lens. Pentax made 8 (or was it really 9? HD coating?) releases and the only mention I've seen, beyond the late-night unnoticed posts from the other night, was Pentax regurgitating press releases in the most uninspiring way possible. How are people supposed to get excited about Pentax if Pentax don't seem excited?
Agree

And most likely more important to Pentax the company then one segment of higher end Pentax users is a lower priced dslr, well below that of the K30. Not that I would upgrade my Kr with any camera at that level (and after 38 years of shooting I am not an entry level photographer I hope) but there are more people interested in a decent camera as inexpensive as possible then there are for FF. If Pentax was able to make all the cameras we want I would like a Kr sized one with the K5 sensor and almost all the fancy stuff such as the pictograph models gone but that would not make business sense.

The Mayan calendar ends the world in just a little over 3 months and the pre Photokina announcements spelt the end of Pentax this week. I think I will survive both of these events.
09-13-2012, 12:50 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
I think I will survive both of these events.
And so will Pentax.
09-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #68
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Re: "Sorry Pentax. You've let me down."

There is no doubt in my mind but that Pentax will be devastated to learn they have let you down.


Last edited by MPrince; 09-14-2012 at 04:08 AM.
09-13-2012, 05:26 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I don't mean to stir the pot, but... you do realize there are plenty of pro's shooting APS-C right?
Every pro I know (and I know quite a few) shoot with APS-C cameras. They work for a living, and 135 format cameras just aren't cost-effective in the local market where I live.
09-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #70
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I bought into Pentax (I also shoot with a Canon FF) a few months ago because I wanted an awesome still making machine that was compact and durable with WR. I'm still glad I went with them. Personally, I could care a rat's behind about GPS, etc. etc. (though wireless would be nice).
09-13-2012, 09:37 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
You guys remind me of fans of a football team who finished last in the previous season, who because the team got a new coach, expect them to win the Superbowl this season.
Maybe the fans just expect the new coach to tell them he is aiming to win the Superbowl. Because it doesn't look like he's even thinking about it.

I don't care about FF in particular, but I don't see anything coming from Pentax that would draw attention to the brand. Maybe they have a really interesting concept they are working on in secret, but at least they could say that.
09-13-2012, 10:06 PM   #72
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Its understandable that the OP is disappointed. K5 II and K5IIs is in a strange place with K-30, K-01, and K5.

But it is in Pentaxian nature that we see a new product came out from Pentax and we don't like it, we shout. The Q, the K01, and now the K5II. If it is not what you want, then wait for what you want.

I will wait for K-3 to replace my K200 and compliment features that my K5 lacks. Be patient....that's the most important quality as a Pentaxian. =D
09-13-2012, 10:46 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by einstrigger Quote
How NOT to advertise
I remember laughing about this and feeling a slight bit of guilt at doing so, but surely someone saw what it looked like... Honestly, Pentax's marketing issues aren't news to me, but I've only recently realized how much of an effect this has on the existing and potential user bases. I genuinely want to see them succeed, but right now I can't shake the feeling that even if they had announced a FF it wouldn't have changed anything. It likely would have been another in a line of similar sterile press releases with product pictures. This bothers me, but I'm not really in any position to fix it. I just say I would fix it if I could and I'm game for anything (i.e., they can hire,or otherwise entice, me to do marketing and I will give it my all).

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Maybe the fans just expect the new coach to tell them he is aiming to win the Superbowl. Because it doesn't look like he's even thinking about it.

I don't care about FF in particular, but I don't see anything coming from Pentax that would draw attention to the brand. Maybe they have a really interesting concept they are working on in secret, but at least they could say that.
I agree. It's like all the other guys are standing there proudly shouting, "WE MADE A CAMERA! IT TAKES PHOTOS! ISN'T IT GRAND?!" and Pentax is hiding over in the corner whispering, "us, too."
09-13-2012, 10:48 PM - 2 Likes   #74
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You know if there's one thing I've learned from photo boards is that some people are just never satisfied. Pentax as a camera brand is not aimed at the Pro. They've always catered to the amateur to the serious enthusiast neither of whom are probably all that interested in FF. FF cameras cost too much $$$ for people at the level that Pentax tends to sell to. That is the bottom line. The guy out there shooting pro sports? Pentax isn't really trying to sell to him. The K-5 and K5II are verging on pro capacity, but honestly they're not made with pros in mind. They're made for serious enthusiasts, hobbyists, who like to go out in the muck to shoot and who don't really need programmed settings. That some pros seem to think they can use them, that they have enough capacity to be used in some pro situations is nice but it's not really the market Pentax was going for when they came out with the K5.

If and when Pentax actually decides to cater to the higher end pro market I have no doubt that they will make stellar FF cameras. Why wouldn't they? They make stellar non-pro cameras. Cameras that are so good they verge on being pro level. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that day because the bulk of sales at Pentax just isn't people at that level. It's the gal/guy who needs an entry level DSLR. It's the guy/gal who has finally outgrown his/her entry level DSLR and who needs a little weather proofing. It's the average parent who wants to take some good shots of their kids and who might never take the DSLR off full auto. It's the teens and early 20 somethings who want a "cute" DSLR to tote around that are buying the bulk of what Pentax sells. Pentax knows it's market.

Why do you think that what ads they do make nearly always feature someone like that? It's because they sell probably 90% of their cameras to "normal" people. Pros are way down on their list of people who's business they want to court. They're glad to have them, sure, but if the bulk of your business is hobbyists, students, Dad's and Mom's who want a sub 1000K camera is a FF camera that's going to cost several K really all that practical for you to produce? Probably not.

Yeah, I want them to go there, but that's me coming from the perspective of someone who has gone pro. I want them to compete more in that market. But honestly? Looking at the K-30 I'm realizing that even the entry level and mid level Pentax DSLR's have more than enough capacity to do most of the work I'll be doing. For me to be shooting pro with a K-x is stretching it maybe, though I am doing it, but shooting with a K-30 or a K-5? I'd be more than blessed.

I can print small poster sized prints for my clients if I want and they absolutely cannot tell that the camera I am using is not FF, and that's with just the K-x. I could probably print a full sized poster with a digital neg from the K-30 or K-5. Unless I'm printing billboards I really don't think I need more capacity than that. Then again I don't shoot weddings. Don't shoot sports. Don't plan on it either. I'm mainly a portrait photographer. I do some nature work and I'll do stock work. I'm guessing I need a bit less capacity than someone doing work like that.

But still it can be done. You can shoot with Pentax and do professional work and there are several photographers on this forum who can attest that they are doing exactly that. FYI, I know at least 3 high end pros who actually prefer the Pentax K-5 when they are not shooting bill board sized pics. One guy does high fashion and high end ads. Another is primarily a wedding photographer. They both love the K-5 and use it for that. No problem. Pentax is actually covering quite a bit of range with what they do make. No, they're not really catering to the photographer who wants a 3K-10K FF wonder camera but they can cover a lot more than they are often given credit for.

If Pentax ever gets a FF I'm sure it will make a lot of people happy. But I'm also sure that even if they get what they want some of the people doing the most in terms of the lamenting now will still find something to gripe about. Fact, Pentax could make the best FF camera on the planet and likely it would still get cat calls from the peanut gallery. Fact, the K-5 is a stellar camera and the K-5II looks to be even better and yet still the gripes will continue.

I've said this before, in jest, and I still mean it that way now, but also a bit more seriously. Some of you folks? You are just too SPOILED. Be fair darn it. Look at the K-5 and the specs for the upgraded model. Really LOOK. Compare what it can do to cameras made a decade ago, bear in mind the level of camera it's actually supposed to be, and do try to appreciate what you've got, okay? I'm sitting here shooting "pro" with a K-x for Pete's sake. If I can do portraits and scenic work with a freaking K-x and Benji can do VOGUE with his K-5's than I don't think Pentax is doing so bad when it comes to catering to people like us.

They're already crossing the line between serious hobbyist to pro fairly well. If they ever do go upscale pro they'll kick butt I am sure, but that day may never come because I just don't think market is where the money is for them. You can't blame them for selling what will sell to the most people. That's just business and common sense. You don't cater to the 10% if you can sell tons more to 90%. FF is just not where the $$$ is at for Pentax. It be nice if they did go there someday but that's not their bottom line and I think we all just have to realize that and let them decide what they're going to sell.

Frankly, I'd rather see them sell 10 million K-30's and 5 million K-5's than a few hundred thousand FF's if that's what keeps Pentax healthy and in business. Better they sell to the masses than they go the way of Yashica et all. It would be really nice if my nieces grow up to have kids who can actually still buy a new Pentax camera somewhere on the planet....

Last edited by magkelly; 09-13-2012 at 11:07 PM.
09-13-2012, 10:54 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Frankly, I'd rather see them sell 10 million K-30's and 5 million K-5's than a few hundred thousand FF's if that's what keeps Pentax healthy and in business.
Amen!
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