Would You Buy an FF SLR ?

**maxfield_photo** · 09-20-2012, 01:47 PM

I would pre order mine. $3500 US would be my limit, but if it were something that could rival the 1DX or D4, I might be persuaded to dig a little deeper, $4K maybe.

hoanpham · 09-20-2012, 02:06 PM

I would like to have one, but may be not the first to own. It could be the first FF digital pentax with lots of bugs. i use shift and wide and want a FF. If i really need one, i had gone to other brands

reeftool · 09-20-2012, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Time for a Leica, I guess.

I suppose there are worse things I could blow my retirement savings on.

cbaytan · 09-21-2012, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by hoanpham

It could be the first FF digital pentax with lots of bugs. i use shift and wide and want a FF.

Expect the unexpected.....with expected.

I was thinking the same thing besides on the competition side like Nikon might have had Sony some reserves for selling D600's sensor to other companies like Pentax for some time at least.

On the technical side making a floating FF sensor might not be easy as APS-C sensor for Shake Reduction., it'l be double in the area and the weight. Just a thought...

hoanpham · 09-21-2012, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by cbaytan

On the technical side making a floating FF sensor might not be easy as APS-C sensor for Shake Reduction

Contax AX film body has fine AF mechanism in film plan (z-axis).
A floating FF sensor of multi-dimension would be great - x, y, rotate, z and tilt.
Pentax can also improve flash synch to 1/500s or any speed faster than canikon.
New AF engine, faster with 3d tracking - these factors are my 'buying' points.

The first FF digital body almost a year after 3rd generation of FF from other brands will need alots of boosts to sell.
Premium price period will be gone in 6 months. Pentax may rush a new FF body out sooner to reach this time period, and *can* result a FF body with lots of bugs.

We have experience bad QA control in lenses, K7 and K5. Personally, I would prefer a late release with a well tested FF body.
Bad reputation is the last thing Pentax needs.

Anvh · 09-21-2012, 05:38 AM

Sony has done it with their FF

**Pål Jensen** · 09-21-2012, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

Sony has done it with their FF

How much can you move an FF sensor before vignetting from the lens mount?
Sony had about one stop effectivity...

Franky2step · 09-21-2012, 07:56 AM

I think it odd when reading some quotes from Pentax/Ricoh exec saying they didn't think FF was that important...as Canon, Nikon, and Sony launch an "all out" attack on the FF market, both professional and enthusiast...piss poor management on Ricohs part

ducdao · 09-21-2012, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by Franky2step

I think it odd when reading some quotes from Pentax/Ricoh exec saying they didn't think FF was that important...as Canon, Nikon, and Sony launch an "all out" attack on the FF market, both professional and enthusiast...piss poor management on Ricohs part

Well results say it all. You (Pentax) don't become a chump change player in the market by making the right decisions...the sad thing is we might see Pentax to be the next Kodak in term of being late and slow to adapt compared to their competitors

**maxfield_photo** · 09-21-2012, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

How much can you move an FF sensor before vignetting from the lens mount? Sony had about one stop effectivity...

I think this as much as anything is what may be holding Pentax up, but I'm ok with reduced effectiveness of shake reductions. BUT perhaps some folks noticed that the new 645 DA 90mm macro has lens based SR. I've long felt that lens based shake reduction is more effective for longer lenses, while sensor based SR works fine for shorter lenses and long exposure. Perhaps Pentax could adopt a mixed SR strategy if they were to announce FF compatible lenses. (N.b. I'm not suggesting using both IBIS and LBIS simultaneously, I've heard that doesn't really work)

Anvh · 09-21-2012, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

How much can you move an FF sensor before vignetting from the lens mount?
Sony had about one stop effectivity...

No idea, how far can you move the APS-C sensor for APS-C only lenses?

The effectiveness might go down with the increase of size but i've trully no idea.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-21-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

No idea, how far can you move the APS-C sensor for APS-C only lenses?

The effectiveness might go down with the increase of size but i've trully no idea.

But APS only lenses are designed with SR in mind (maybe thats why some think they are FF compatible?). Theres no way you can do the same with FF lenses as a larger image circle won't prevent vigneting from the mount. FF sensors fill the mount; APS don't.
Bigger sensors also means more mass to be moved a larger distance than APS sensors.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 09-21-2012, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

But APS only lenses are designed with SR in mind (maybe thats why some think they are FF compatible?). Theres no way you can do the same with FF lenses as a larger image circle won't prevent vigneting from the mount. FF sensors fill the mount; APS don't.
Bigger sensors also means more mass to be moved a larger distance than APS sensors.

The vignetting resulting from SR would be unnoticeable given the vignetting that most FF lenses exhibit naturally. And given that Sony has provided IS in their A900 and A99, it is pretty clear that this can be done. We can split hairs on whether IBIS can be done more effectively on MFT, APS-C, or FF, but in the end it doesn't matter that much - no one will anchor their decision of buying a FF camera around whether IBIS is as effective as on a smaller format.

Pentikonian · 09-21-2012, 06:21 PM

Would I buy a FF DSLR? I already have one (D700).

Would I take a serious look at a Pentax offering? Most definitely "yes". Purchase decision would be based on what they bring to market. Based on the K-5, I'm sure it would be a decent body.

**Dice** · 09-21-2012, 08:51 PM

No I don't see a ff in my future not just because of the price but because I'm not sure I'm pushing the abilities of my k5. Took me several years to need something more than k10 and I'm quite satisfied with the k5.

09-21-2012, 09:08 AM	#70
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	Originally posted by Pål Jensen How much can you move an FF sensor before vignetting from the lens mount? Sony had about one stop effectivity... I think this as much as anything is what may be holding Pentax up, but I'm ok with reduced effectiveness of shake reductions. BUT perhaps some folks noticed that the new 645 DA 90mm macro has lens based SR. I've long felt that lens based shake reduction is more effective for longer lenses, while sensor based SR works fine for shorter lenses and long exposure. Perhaps Pentax could adopt a mixed SR strategy if they were to announce FF compatible lenses. (N.b. I'm not suggesting using both IBIS and LBIS simultaneously, I've heard that doesn't really work) Last edited by maxfield_photo; 09-21-2012 at 12:21 PM.

09-21-2012, 12:03 PM	#71
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by Pål Jensen How much can you move an FF sensor before vignetting from the lens mount? Sony had about one stop effectivity... No idea, how far can you move the APS-C sensor for APS-C only lenses? The effectiveness might go down with the increase of size but i've trully no idea. Last edited by Parallax; 09-21-2012 at 12:10 PM.

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09-20-2012, 01:47 PM	#61
maxfield_photo Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,216	I would pre order mine. $3500 US would be my limit, but if it were something that could rival the 1DX or D4, I might be persuaded to dig a little deeper, $4K maybe.

09-20-2012, 02:06 PM	#62
hoanpham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Strand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,366	I would like to have one, but may be not the first to own. It could be the first FF digital pentax with lots of bugs. i use shift and wide and want a FF. If i really need one, i had gone to other brands

09-20-2012, 10:33 PM	#63
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Time for a Leica, I guess. I suppose there are worse things I could blow my retirement savings on.

09-21-2012, 01:01 AM	#64
cbaytan Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trabzon/Turkey Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,010 Original Poster	Originally posted by hoanpham It could be the first FF digital pentax with lots of bugs. i use shift and wide and want a FF. Expect the unexpected.....with expected. I was thinking the same thing besides on the competition side like Nikon might have had Sony some reserves for selling D600's sensor to other companies like Pentax for some time at least. On the technical side making a floating FF sensor might not be easy as APS-C sensor for Shake Reduction., it'l be double in the area and the weight. Just a thought...

09-21-2012, 01:38 AM	#65
hoanpham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Strand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,366	Originally posted by cbaytan On the technical side making a floating FF sensor might not be easy as APS-C sensor for Shake Reduction Contax AX film body has fine AF mechanism in film plan (z-axis). A floating FF sensor of multi-dimension would be great - x, y, rotate, z and tilt. Pentax can also improve flash synch to 1/500s or any speed faster than canikon. New AF engine, faster with 3d tracking - these factors are my 'buying' points. The first FF digital body almost a year after 3rd generation of FF from other brands will need alots of boosts to sell. Premium price period will be gone in 6 months. Pentax may rush a new FF body out sooner to reach this time period, and can result a FF body with lots of bugs. We have experience bad QA control in lenses, K7 and K5. Personally, I would prefer a late release with a well tested FF body. Bad reputation is the last thing Pentax needs.

09-21-2012, 05:38 AM	#66
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Sony has done it with their FF

09-21-2012, 07:09 AM	#67
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Anvh Sony has done it with their FF How much can you move an FF sensor before vignetting from the lens mount? Sony had about one stop effectivity...

09-21-2012, 07:56 AM	#68
Franky2step Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Niagara Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 793	I think it odd when reading some quotes from Pentax/Ricoh exec saying they didn't think FF was that important...as Canon, Nikon, and Sony launch an "all out" attack on the FF market, both professional and enthusiast...piss poor management on Ricohs part

09-21-2012, 08:09 AM	#69
ducdao Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Montreal/Vermont Posts: 2,160	Originally posted by Franky2step I think it odd when reading some quotes from Pentax/Ricoh exec saying they didn't think FF was that important...as Canon, Nikon, and Sony launch an "all out" attack on the FF market, both professional and enthusiast...piss poor management on Ricohs part Well results say it all. You (Pentax) don't become a chump change player in the market by making the right decisions...the sad thing is we might see Pentax to be the next Kodak in term of being late and slow to adapt compared to their competitors

09-21-2012, 02:07 PM	#72
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Anvh No idea, how far can you move the APS-C sensor for APS-C only lenses? The effectiveness might go down with the increase of size but i've trully no idea. But APS only lenses are designed with SR in mind (maybe thats why some think they are FF compatible?). Theres no way you can do the same with FF lenses as a larger image circle won't prevent vigneting from the mount. FF sensors fill the mount; APS don't. Bigger sensors also means more mass to be moved a larger distance than APS sensors.

09-21-2012, 04:19 PM	#73
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by Pål Jensen But APS only lenses are designed with SR in mind (maybe thats why some think they are FF compatible?). Theres no way you can do the same with FF lenses as a larger image circle won't prevent vigneting from the mount. FF sensors fill the mount; APS don't. Bigger sensors also means more mass to be moved a larger distance than APS sensors. The vignetting resulting from SR would be unnoticeable given the vignetting that most FF lenses exhibit naturally. And given that Sony has provided IS in their A900 and A99, it is pretty clear that this can be done. We can split hairs on whether IBIS can be done more effectively on MFT, APS-C, or FF, but in the end it doesn't matter that much - no one will anchor their decision of buying a FF camera around whether IBIS is as effective as on a smaller format.

09-21-2012, 06:21 PM	#74
Pentikonian Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 780	Would I buy a FF DSLR? I already have one (D700). Would I take a serious look at a Pentax offering? Most definitely "yes". Purchase decision would be based on what they bring to market. Based on the K-5, I'm sure it would be a decent body.

09-21-2012, 08:51 PM	#75
Dice Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Emeryville, CA Posts: 1,122	No I don't see a ff in my future not just because of the price but because I'm not sure I'm pushing the abilities of my k5. Took me several years to need something more than k10 and I'm quite satisfied with the k5.