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09-20-2012, 08:02 AM   #16
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Ad marketing?

More pictures of a user in the rain. A commercial where you see "generic dslr" users gathering under a roof to avoid the start of a downpour at a soccer game, while the k-5ii user puts up his hoodie and runs along the field.

A commercial where you see different conditions - inside a wet dripping cave with the k-5ii (to emphasize WR and the new low-light AF, make sure it shows the beep or something), on a freezing mountaintop, at a waterfall, etc.

Even if these commercials are on youtube only, they should really give an idea of what the k-5/k-5ii is meant for - getting out there no matter what and shooting.

09-20-2012, 08:04 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Ad marketing?

More pictures of a user in the rain. A commercial where you see "generic dslr" users gathering under a roof to avoid the start of a downpour at a soccer game, while the k-5ii user puts up his hoodie and runs along the field.

A commercial where you see different conditions - inside a wet dripping cave with the k-5ii (to emphasize WR and the new low-light AF, make sure it shows the beep or something), on a freezing mountaintop, at a waterfall, etc.

Even if these commercials are on youtube only, they should really give an idea of what the k-5/k-5ii is meant for - getting out there no matter what and shooting.
YouTube. How much does an ad on there cost? Seriously, look at all the hits that Heie's video got! The videos from Japan that I turned the sound off because I could not understand what they were saying about the K-30 were terrific. Stop the Pentax USA folks from doing ANY more. YouTube, good call!
09-20-2012, 08:07 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
YouTube. How much does an ad on there cost? Seriously, look at all the hits that Heie's video got! The videos from Japan that I turned the sound off because I could not understand what they were saying about the K-30 were terrific. Stop the Pentax USA folks from doing ANY more. YouTube, good call!
Yep - and youtube makes it easier for us to share, for the mass amounts of camera review sites to embed, and for Pentax to put on their main page.
09-20-2012, 12:11 PM   #19
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If I were a power player in Pentax's marketing department, I would capitalize on the weather durability - and extremely.

Recently I came across this:

QuoteOriginally posted by HockeyDad Quote
There seems to be a lot of people posting in this thread ["Water resistant my ass" thread] that feel that the WR feature of a Pentax camera is for emergency use only.
This, to me, as someone that spent WEEKS researching and coming to the conclusion that no one built cameras like Pentax, is an egregious travesty.

This shouldn't be new to anyone who has seen any of my posts as I champion Pentax's weather sealing and durability. The following is a self-quote:

QuoteOriginally posted by Heie Quote
I can personally assure you that the weather sealing claims are very real, and in my experience are not touted enough. I have emailed Pentax (to no response, unfortunately) stating that I believe they need to do more to advertise the weather sealing claims, and the most legitimate way to do this is by using the internationally recognized IP Codes (see here for a much more detailed explanation). These are industry standard, regardless of the industry involved, and are also the standards used for evaluating critical pieces of gear/equipment for military usage (as the military demands the highest levels of durability, as one would expect). Using these codes, I have personally assessed the weather sealed bodies (I own a K-5 and K-7) when combined with a WR/AW/DA* lens to be, at a minimum, IP55W. AW and DA* will have a higher degree of sealing against water and dust, but the difference between 4 and 5 is enough that I would categorize WR as 5 (just barely) as well. What this means is:

  • IP - Ingress Protection Rating, sometimes also interpreted as International Protection Rating (mandatory prefix to coding)
  • 5 - Dust Protected - Ingress of dust is not entirely prevented, but it must not enter in sufficient quantity to interfere with the satisfactory operation of the equipment; complete protection against contact
  • 5 - Water Jets - Water projected by a nozzle (6.3mm) against enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects.
    • Test duration: at least 3 minutes
    • Water volume: 12.5 litres per minute
    • Pressure: 30 kPa at distance of 3m
  • W - Weather Conditions
*Disclaimer: I have not personally had access to a "6.3mm, 12.5 L/m, 30 kPa nozzle," however I believe that a highly pressurized showerhead more than suffices for this.

Here is a testimonial from another Pentax user (who luckily has insider access somehow...lucky bastard...)

QuoteOriginally posted by doug13:
i left mine under the cold shower for 6 straight hours, i had to test it cause it was a k5 with the improved seals that they used on the k30, dont ask how i got it, lets just say i also got a k30 in may. they both perform the same after 6 hours of non stop shower. I never trusted a camera nor a manufacture like i trust Pentax
The intent behind the aforementioned email to Pentax is that it is my personal opinion that Pentax should lead the industry by publishing their confidence in their equipment as rated to an internationally recognized standard. This would make Pentax the very first camera company to do so for DSLR's, and would help further the credibility of Pentax's purported claims (which still are dubious at best to many). As a 100% private user (i.e. not paid by Pentax in anyway), I stand by the above standard (IP55W), and all experiences have been through personally owned cameras.
That came from this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-30/198996-water-resistant-my-as...ml#post2099708 in case anyone would like to see the rest of my testimonial there.

So knowing that Pentax's cameras, when coupled with the aforementioned lens types, can survive such environments, then I would dare my customers at a big event such as Photokina, CP+, and random gatherings at Bass Pro and Cabellas as stated above (outstanding idea, btw) via the following techniques.

"Go on, I want you to take this Pentax X, which retails for X dollars, and I want you to pretend you are hiking in the desert. Here's a bucket of sand. I want you to pour it on this K-5/K-30. Go ahead. That all of it? Ok, now come over here to the sink and clean it off. No, I did not misspeak. Make sure to get right at the lens mount to get all the sand and dust off of it."

Give them the power to learn by doing. Give them the power to see the difference first hand. Make it like an ice cream sundae buffet bar. Bucket 1 is sand, 2 is fine dust, 3 is mud, and 4 is Coca-Cola.

"Ok, now you are at home playing with your newborn son in the back yard. You left the hose running and now he is crawling in the ensuing mud pit. As you go to reach for your camera, you knock over your Coca-Cola and it just get's all over your brand new K-30. But that was after you've already been outside so it has some mud and dust stick to it from earlier pictures. I want you to get that camera as dirty as possible. Whatever combination will make you happy. Go on - do it. Nope, that's not enough - you can do better than that. Ok, now you need to clean it so you go to this sink, which would be the hose in your backyard, and I want you to get it as clean as possible. All clean? Now continue taking pictures."

"Has anyone here ever been to an extremely cold environment and not taken pictures because of all the sleet, hail, and snow? You, Sir? Ok, come here. Now I want you to take this K-5 and DA* 60-250, our current premium telephoto zoom. Now, you see this slushy machine? I want you to get some cup fulls, and really give this camera a blast of slush. Go on, cover it well. Try to see if you can get it to accumulate by the lens mount. Ok use this brush to brush off whatever you can, since you don't want to use water in a freezing environment, and take some pictures."

*Have a cooler ready to put lens and bagged camera into with bags of ice so as to allow for extremely slow temperature rise to prevent condensation from forming after the demonstration*


And then after the shock and awe has subsided, explain what the above IP standard is, how it is used, when it applies, and why NO OTHER CAMERA MANUFACTURER DARES USE IT - why Pentax are pioneers in this regard. Trailblazers. Lunatics, if you will.

Then, Pentax has to market that any water ingress of the camera will be replaced free of charge. Some will see this as a way for the ignorant and reckless to get a free camera after using a non-sealed lens. I see this as opportunity - as trust - as word and faith, and there is nothing stronger than a company to bestow upon her clients. Psychologically, no one wants to damage their camera. Even if they know they will get it replaced, no one wants to have their camera be sent in for repairs and then 3 weeks return - that is a lot of lost shooting time. No. Instead, the negligible amount of incidents where negligence is the cause are astronomically overruled by the amount of faith and trust that is put into the name of the company. And the people that had their cameras replaced? Won't hesitate to buy new products and spend that extra $200 on a lens - why? Well because it has Pentax blazed across the top of it and no one beats their service. I would be comfortable sacrificing a minor amount in order to develop faith and trust in "The Outdoorsman's Camera Company" across an entire industry.

Next, SDM has chronically been an issue. The truth is, it is an engineering defect, nothing more, nothing less. I would ensure that SDM issues were fixed, free of charge. Again - faith in a name - becoming an arbiter of excellent craftsmanship and customer loyalty among an otherwise cutthroat industry. The perception becomes - Pentax is not here to scrape the linings of your wallets, but rather to deliver not just a product, but an unparalleled trinity - Quality through Serviceability, Reliability, Durability.

Additionally, find several professionals who operate safaris and give them each a K-5II/DA560 + K5II/DA60-250 for a season's loan, and if they want to keep them, they only have to pay half price for the package - the ensuing hype and brand exposure to their clients will more than pay for the loan and make the guides really learn the camera to see if they want to get such a deal - they will, because it is great gear - they just don't know about it yet.

Finally - Pentax is a company for photographers, by photographers. Put marketing into the hands of not laboratory officials, nor suited up executives. No. Put the power of marketing into the hands of the people. My generation and all following generations are creatures of the internet and YouTube. We must capitalize on that penetrating resource. Encourage your users to create their own videos, their own pictures, of Pentax cameras in the most austere of environments. You are stationed in Antarctica? Bury your camera in snow and make a video! You are deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq? Grab a sandbag and a hose and make a video! You just went alpine mountaineering in the Alps? Make a video of your packing list and why you chose Pentax when weight and size are critical! For every 100 videos submitted, which are uploaded to YouTube (flood YT with the videos) and are posted to a website dedicated to users' testimonials - pentaxdurability.com / pentaxweathersealing.com / howhardcoreisyourcamera.com / etc., which is linked to from every Pentax mainsite and forum. After every 100 submissions, which are all viewed on that page, the best video receives a Pentax K-30 (or have a different prize each time - K-5, DA* lens, WG-2, free cleaning and servicing of winner's camera/lens lineup, DA560mm for an absolutely extreme contest with very specific parameters that must be met to ensure the quality of submissions), and that person has to make another video using that prize in an austere environment! Even with a DA 560 as the prize, the $6999 it would cost the company is nothing compared to how much a marketing initiative costs - leverage the talents and enthusiasm of your userbase and reward them for their efforts, and the overall collective will pay for itself via better exposure, brand name awareness, and thus ultimately revenue and increased marketshare.

I just came across a review for the K-30

From CrutchField Reviews
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-frQcyNNdFm5/p_815K30KIT1/PENTAX-K-30-Dual-Lens-Kit-1-Black.html (click on overview)

QuoteQuote:
CONFIDENCE IN YOUR HANDS
Fearlessness. There aren't many products in this world that claim to offer it as a selling feature. But it appears Pentax may have added it as a side benefit of buying the new K-30. After all, it resists sun, sand, rain, dust, dirt and wind. Plus, it's rated cold-proof all the way down to 14 degrees Fahrenheit. Just what locations would you shoot where this camera would be out of its element? Not many, I'm sure. Indeed, the Pentax K-30 is the feisty wolverine of cameras: solid, smart, and seemingly indestructible.

BRING IT ON
Plus, you'll have the confidence to take on almost any assignment. The Amazon backcountry? You're there. The national team ski jump trials? You're ready for the ice and slush. Desert dune buggy races? Child's play. It's good to be fearless.
Pentax is the feisty wolverine of camera makers - and that's how I'd make sure the word got out.

-Heie


Last edited by Heie; 09-20-2012 at 12:42 PM.
09-20-2012, 01:17 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by psychdoc Quote
Where are these brick and mortar stores that people are talking about.
Obviously, I can not speak for the world, but here in Tulsa, OK (~500K metro pop.) we have:
  • 2 camera stores (Camera Gallery & Apertures).
  • BestBuy (4)
  • Target (6)
  • Walmart & Sams Club (5)
  • RadioShack (9)
  • Sears (3)
All of the above stock DSLRs, and compacts, from Canon, Nikon and some Sony.
One of above, Camera Gallery, is carrying Pentax products.
09-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Venturi Quote
Obviously, I can not speak for the world, but here in Tulsa, OK (~500K metro pop.) we have:
  • 2 camera stores (Camera Gallery & Apertures).
  • BestBuy (4)
  • Target (6)
  • Walmart & Sams Club (5)
  • RadioShack (9)
  • Sears (3)
All of the above stock DSLRs, and compacts, from Canon, Nikon and some Sony.
One of above, Camera Gallery, is carrying Pentax products.
Two are what was being referred to and you have 2x the number that Atlanta with a population of ~5 million has. The others are Big Box retailers (what is Radioshack anyway??).

Our Target has 2 dSLRs - an entry level for Canon and one for Nikon.
Our WalMart has 0 dSLRs, but they do offer them on their website.
Two of the three BestBuys withing 30 miles of me have a pretty full line of dSLRs from Nikon (including D800, D7000 and entry level cameras, but with a VERY limited lens selection), Canon was more just entry level cameras (still with nearly no extra lenses).
Sears, they're still in business? Seriously, they had D5100 and D3100 kits and that was about it in the local store
Radioshack was the same as Sears - D5100 and D3100 except they were online only for the stores within 25 miles of me (there were 8).

So, to recap. Atlanta with 5+ million people has 1 pro camera retailer with 3 K-30s in a dark corner. The local WalMart has 0 dSLRs on the shelf to play with but you can order them online. Target has 1 each Canon and Nikon entry level dSLRs. Bestbuy has a good range of Nikon in the store, far fewer Canons, and even fewer Sonys in the store. Sears has two entry level kits in the local store from Nikon and Radioshack has 0 in store.

So, I can buy a replacement for my K-x locally at 4 places and a replacement for my K-5 at 2 places. Oh, BTW BestBuy only wants $3499 for the D7000 + AF-S Nikkor 70-200m.

Last edited by Docrwm; 09-20-2012 at 01:46 PM.
09-20-2012, 07:21 PM   #22
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@Heie: You make some very good points and I very much appreciate what you are doing for Pentax with your actions.

With respect to advertising WR with respect to industrial standards, I'm not sure whether Pentax would actually be able to guarantee higher standards than other manufacturers (even though I'm convinced that their weather-sealing is more advanced than Nikon's in the same model range, for example).

I'm impressed by what your equipment seems to be able to endure but I'm not sure whether Pentax would be comfortable with standing behind their products if they are exposed to such adverse conditions.

In any event, I loved the quote by Woody Sherman you provided:
It's good to be fearless.
I can image that in big letters as part of a full page advert showing a Pentax DSLR being splashed with water or in another adverse environment.

That advert should then only add "Pentax DSLRs with advanced, top of the class, weather-sealing", plus information how one can order a camera for a trial period.

This is another marketing idea: It should be possible to order a camera from Pentax directly for a short trial period (to make up for the fact that it is not possible to handle Pentax gear in stores). Sending the camera back should be possible with no questions asked, but there should be an incentive to keep the camera, such as a time-limited rebate offer.
09-20-2012, 08:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
So, I can buy a replacement for my K-x locally at 4 places and a replacement for my K-5 at 2 places.
That's surprising that the Atlanta metro area only has a single dedicated camera shop, especially since KEH is based out of there. I see a bunch of Ritz/Wolf listings for ATL - have they all closed?

The point I was making was simply that there are plenty of stores locally where customers can see, touch and purchase Canon and Nikon products, but only one that carries anything Pentax.

And while that one doesn't have Pentax hidden in a corner, they aren't reaching for K-mount cameras when a new customer walks in. If you ask about Pentax they'll happily show you and do know the product, but their margins are in Canikon.

And those are the barriers that I'm saying Ricoh-Pentax has to get past in order to build the brand.

09-20-2012, 11:39 PM   #24
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I've got to say, Pentax's marketing is rather rubbish.

I'm a Pentax user, and a Pentax fan, and until I read about it on this forum, I didn't realise the Q and K01 were even around.
Even worse, I thought Pentax had completely stopped manufacturing P&S cameras because I haven't seen one for years (neither in a shop, nor anywhere else)


More than letting people know about the weather sealing and other outdoors related benefits, people need to know about Pentax itself.
I would hazard a guess that most people born after 1990 would not know about Pentax unless they're into cameras (but I'm sure almost all of them could tell you that Canon and Nikon make cameras)
09-20-2012, 11:48 PM   #25
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More shelf space would also help greatly.

I remember walking into my local Ted's camera shop one day when I had some spare time, along the wall was the normal glass cabinet of cameras and lenses, Canon took up the majority there were about 5 bodies and about 10 lenses (I think a few bodies were doubled up)
There was also a stand with Canon bodies tethered and open for people to test.

Nikon had about half the space of Canon.

And Pentax had the dark bit at the base of the cabinet, with a single K30, and 2 lenses. (The 18-55 kit lens, and the 40mmXS one)


I asked the salesguy if I could look at the K30, he happily obliged and opened the cabinet for me.
I could tell he knew nothing about Pentax (or maybe even cameras at all!?) he simply said "it's a nice camera, the grip bit on the side makes it easy to hold"

He then proceeded to take the 40XS out and say "oh, they've also got this, it's really small!"

That was his pentax sales ploy "it's got a handle" and "this thing is small"


At another branch of the same chain I asked if they had any Pentax lenses, I was again met with a "no, but we can order one if you want it?"


For the general public who's looking to get into photography, Pentax isn't very accessible.
The Canon and Nikon all have large cabinets where people can touch, feel, and try the cameras and lenses.
Pentax just has maybe one body with a shit lens, and a salesman saying "we can order more stuff if you want it?"
09-21-2012, 01:13 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
They also said that in its current incarnation, the Prime M is not designed to work with the high-sensitivity sensor in the K-5. Thus, in order to maintain the same good image quality, they decided the Prime II would be a better fit.
.
Wondering if this decision was the one sacrificing focus peaking on the K-5 II's ?
09-21-2012, 04:14 AM   #27
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The issue is not whether brick and mortar stores should be targeted by Pentax. Of course, its good to be able to try before you buy. But there wont be many of them around shortly.

Best Buy, Sears and Radio Shack are on the way to closing soon. A few specialty camera stores will be the only ones still around. Does Pentax target these small stores? How does it compete in the limited space? Would people go to places like Target to look at dslrs? I dont have the answer.

I remember before one of the big camera stores closed that Canon and Nikon lost a lot of money because the stores were essentially being lend the products without any cash upfront and I was told that one reason they did not carry Pentax was because Pentax did not want to take deferred payments....I wonder if that is true.
09-21-2012, 04:45 AM   #28
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Marketing Pentax gear might involve educating salespeople about the product. Today I was in a local music/electronics store, and I asked their camera salesman if he was going to stock the new Pentax X5. He consulted his little hand-held computer and said there was no stock listed. He had heard the X5 mentioned for the first time yesterday, when the visiting Canon rep told him about it.
At least he had a lone K-r on the shelf, among all the Canikons.....

Regards
09-22-2012, 02:38 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
@Heie: You make some very good points and I very much appreciate what you are doing for Pentax with your actions. With respect to advertising WR with respect to industrial standards, I'm not sure whether Pentax would actually be able to guarantee higher standards than other manufacturers (even though I'm convinced that their weather-sealing is more advanced than Nikon's in the same model range, for example).

I'm impressed by what your equipment seems to be able to endure but I'm not sure whether Pentax would be comfortable with standing behind their products if they are exposed to such adverse conditions.

In any event, I loved the quote by Woody Sherman you provided: It's good to be fearless.

I can image that in big letters as part of a full page advert showing a Pentax DSLR being splashed with water or in another adverse environment.

That advert should then only add "Pentax DSLRs with advanced, top of the class, weather-sealing", plus information how one can order a camera for a trial period.

This is another marketing idea: It should be possible to order a camera from Pentax directly for a short trial period (to make up for the fact that it is not possible to handle Pentax gear in stores). Sending the camera back should be possible with no questions asked, but there should be an incentive to keep the camera, such as a time-limited rebate offer.
ClassA,

Thank you very much - I hope the big wigs are taking notice, I really do - that video cost me nothing (well, potentially several thousand dollars, but it all still works! lol), and they can easily do the same thing. I know Pentax won't, however I tend to be a bit more aggressive and cavalier than others and to me, it's a viable risk. Can you imagine the firestorm that would be ignited if you told people that "We offer the only camera in the history of DSLR's that guarantees this internationally recognized standard." Think of the clients - Antarctic adventurers would take notice, rain forest trekkers would, and here's the biggest contract - the military. Can you imagine military units being outfitted for combat camera with a K-5 and DA* 16-50? it's smaller than anything they use right now, and what they are using is the same size, it's infinitely less durable. i.e. - if they are using 7D's or bigger for the durability with appropriate lenses - it's a HUGE and HEAVY system - fear people appreciate weight like the military does. If they are using a Rebel xxxD/Nikon Dxxxx, then it's durability is negligible compared to the K-5 - and it's still bigger!

Then, "the military is choosing Pentax? Well nothing has higher demands than the military...." Pentax starts, albeit yes, very slowly, becoming more and more in the spotlight as the right camera for the outdoors. To me, the several hundred camera replacements a year is dwarfed by the rapid increase in market share and exposure for Pentax's products - the issue is not the product, and not the lack of demand for them - simply a lack of awareness of their existence.

Again, like I said, I am willing to accept risk, and I think we as a global society don't do enough of it, personally. The fact of the matter is that Pentax needs to get aggressive. Very aggressive, and this, to me, is a very effective and long-lasting way of doing so.

Also, I agree with what you said about the fearless quote - it didn't occur to me until now but your marketing pitching inspired me to make this:

Name:  Fearless.jpg
Views: 2144
Size:  59.8 KB

That picture should look familiar

But that is what I am talking about - let your userbase do the marketing for you and reward the best ones. That took me all of 5 minutes, and only in paint. Have someone do it in photoshop and not a still captured from a video and they would create truly professional looking marketing products. And you would get TONS of them! And the best 5-10? Your marketing is done for you, for an absolutely minimal cost. We need to capitalize on such a fruitful resource.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I'd market Pentax gear as the "smart choice":

  • Want to pay for image stabilisation with each lens you buy? Don't buy a Pentax then.
  • Don't want to have image stabilisation for fast primes and wide angle lenses? Don't buy a Pentax then.
  • Want to hide your gear in the bag at the first rain drops? Don't get a Pentax then. Don't want to have optimal camera ergonomics? Don't get a Pentax then.
  • Want to carry large and heavy equipment? Don't buy the incredibly small and excellent Pentax Limited lenses then.
  • Don't want to have access to millions of classic lenses on the used market? Don't get a Pentax then.
  • Want to pay an arm and a leg for your equipment? Don't go for Pentax then (but Pentax needs to make this true buy abandoning their current silly MSRP policy)
And I think that's another phenomenal idea.

-Heie

Last edited by Heie; 09-22-2012 at 02:43 AM.
09-22-2012, 05:10 AM   #30
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Heie, great post from you again.

Your image inspired me to this:

Name:  Fearless.jpg
Views: 990
Size:  64.1 KB

Imagine that as the back cover of a major photo magazine...
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