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09-25-2012, 06:36 AM   #76
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There is no reason why any future K mount need too be continued to be crippled. I decided on Pentax because of the collection of old Pentax glass I have acquired only to find that my work flow severely limited by needing to precapture images to check my settings. The step down metering is very time consuming and not accurate by any means compared to active metering. There should be no reason why a new top of the line SLR cant preform as my 30 year old K1000 can.

09-25-2012, 06:46 AM   #77
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I don't understand why you people want to de-cripple the mount so badly. Who cares, it's old M glass, which can't autofocus. A lens without autofocus isn't worth my time. Count me out of this vote. I would rather have something important, like better AF accuracy and better low light sensitivity, or that awesome star-tracking GPS. (now THAT is a unique Pentax original which I absolutely must own) Until Pentax cameras come with LARGE viewfinders and split prism focusing screens, manual focus lenses will be entirely useless to me. And even then, their use will be extremely limited.

Charles.
09-25-2012, 07:51 AM   #78
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I will only buy a Pentax FF if it comes with an un-crippled K mount. Such a camera would be a great machine to a great many people.
09-25-2012, 07:51 AM   #79
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I also still have an MZ-S, and it is still in use.

09-25-2012, 08:02 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by geofferiah Quote
I will only buy a Pentax FF if it comes with an un-crippled K mount. Such a camera would be a great machine to a great many people.
I own 10 Pentax FFs with non-crippled mounts, but I still see no need for a DSLR with a non-crippled mount.
09-25-2012, 08:30 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
I don't understand why you people want to de-cripple the mount so badly.
Because then we can have metering and be able to control all three exposure variables at the flick of a wrist or finger. It would ease up shooting in M mode to not have to use the ISO button first to change ISO. It would also be great to use the aperture while retaining metering and not worry about the f value getting bumped like can happen when it's controlled from the e-dial.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
Who cares, it's old M glass, which can't autofocus. A lens without autofocus isn't worth my time.
No, it's not just old manual focus glass. This would very much apply to FA lenses too. Strapping the FA Limiteds on a decrippled body would be awesome!

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
I own 10 Pentax FFs with non-crippled mounts, but I still see no need for a DSLR with a non-crippled mount.
Well, if you can imagine having your ISO and shutter on the e-dials, and then control your f value from the aperture ring, surely you can see how that would make shooting in manual less fidgety even with FA lenses. Or how about shooting in Av mode, having ISO on one e-dial and then EV comp on the other one.

Decrippling the k-mount would be a big improvement to the already stellar ergonomics of Pentax DSLRs.
09-25-2012, 08:50 AM   #82
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I know I am going to get flamed, but I personally think the nostalgia with old lenses is just for hobbyists, and having to work around the roadblocks comes with the territory.

I'm sure there was a reason why the support of the aperture wheel was discontinued once A lenses came into being, even if it was purely a cost savings measure.

There are plenty of great lenses that can be controlled by the front and rear wheels on the body.

If you choose not to take advantage of these perfectly good, modern tools then you deal with whatever problems that causes.

Expecting a manufacture to change their production methods, tooling, design to incorporate a long abandoned approach for the benefit of a few hobbyists is unreasonable, IMO.
09-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
Well, if you can imagine having your ISO and shutter on the e-dials, and then control your f value from the aperture ring, surely you can see how that would make shooting in manual less fidgety even with FA lenses. Or how about shooting in Av mode, having ISO on one e-dial and then EV comp on the other one.
I really don't need it. I have A series lenses that cover all my needs on the DSLR. I shoot TAv mode almost exclusively now, as far as I'm concerned the camera does a better job of setting the ISO than I would. I don't need to pretend I'm Ansel Adams in the field, I can pretend I'm Ansel Adams in the darkroom.


Last edited by boriscleto; 09-25-2012 at 08:59 AM.
09-25-2012, 08:54 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by crewl1 Quote
I know I am going to get flamed, but I personally think the nostalgia with old lenses is just for hobbyists, and having to work around the roadblocks comes with the territory.
I would give you another Like if the system would let me. +1
09-25-2012, 09:31 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by crewl1 Quote
I know I am going to get flamed, but I personally think the nostalgia with old lenses is just for hobbyists, and having to work around the roadblocks comes with the territory.

I'm sure there was a reason why the support of the aperture wheel was discontinued once A lenses came into being, even if it was purely a cost savings measure.

There are plenty of great lenses that can be controlled by the front and rear wheels on the body.

If you choose not to take advantage of these perfectly good, modern tools then you deal with whatever problems that causes.

Expecting a manufacture to change their production methods, tooling, design to incorporate a long abandoned approach for the benefit of a few hobbyists is unreasonable, IMO.
Nikon does it for their "hobbyists" so why not Pentax?
09-25-2012, 09:36 AM - 3 Likes   #86
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An uncrippled mount would be pretty good, I guess, but what I really want is a hand that comes out of the front of the camera to focus my old manual lenses for me.
09-25-2012, 09:42 AM   #87
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decrippling the K mount would really make sens if Pentax decide to re-release some lens on which adding the AF would be to tricky or useless / or lens with aperture ring.
09-25-2012, 10:26 AM   #88
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While I don't have the largest collection of manual glasses on the forum (after all it is only about 40 lenses) having shot for years both with film, and a non crippled K mount on my PZ1 and also with the crippled KMount on 4 different DSLRs (all of which I still own and use) here is my take on the issue.

The crippled K mount really impacts 2 areas potentially, one is the ability to shoot AV mode with the aperture ring, and the other is the ability to shoot P-TTL flash.

I leave out matrix metering because for me and for any experienced photographer, you don't need matrix metering. Spot metering, which is still supported for Manual aperture lenses is good enough. Even with a Fully functional K mount on my PZ1 my shooting method was to meter off something like a grey pathway, or tree trunk (my interpretation of a grey card) and then once the shutter speed and aperture were set, shoot without changes until the lighting or situation changed.

Although slightly different in process the green button achieves this reasonably well.

The real issue with an uncrippled K mount is that the metering today (K10/K20 were the worst examples, but all DSLRs have issues) is that the camera needs to know the true open aperture to meter ambient light correctly. As noted earlier, just look at a K10D for metering. The uncrippled K mount would not fix this, and therefore, since each lens would need its own exposure compensation, there would be even more complaints than we have now about metering etc...

Therefore, since metering accuracy would be suspect at best. Let's set aside that need, since using a manual lens with green button is all we need any way. Let's address what we really lost with aperture control, and that is flash, because P-TTL also needs to know the open aperture metering and also the selected astute. Maybe, it could do this without knowing the true aperture and only the stops down from open, but the overall metering would be just as in accurate as the green button today with a manual lens, and again people would bitch about it.

The most useable function, as I said all along is TTL flash. Give that back, at least on one modern body. It is a ton more useable than giving automation to someone who has already rejected auto focus and auto modes
09-25-2012, 10:38 AM   #89
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Old Pentax glass was a big selling point of Pentax for me as well, but I am curious as to what degree this really makes a difference.

Perhaps it's just that I don't have the right lenses to really understand the difference?

I consider us to be fairly lucky because I remember shortly after buying some of my cameras the big names (Canikon) were starting to do away with screw drive altogether in their bodies. Think about how lucky we are that Pentax never gave up on their backwards lenses to that extent. Right?
09-25-2012, 10:47 AM   #90
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Out of curiosity I tried to repeat the test. K-5, smc M 1.4 50mm, EV -0.5, luminosity measured at a 360240px area exactly at the center of images in order to sort out vigneting artifacts. f 1.4 to 22, exposure 1/500 to 0.5" (manual) or chosen by the green button. Interesting exposure times 1/500, 1/350, 1/90, 1/20, 1/8, 1/3, 1, 2, 2




Ratios of largest/smallest luminosities were 1.81 (manual) and 3.25 (green). Theoretically they should be 1, right? The famous green button led to increasingly overexposed photos.
BTW, why did this silicon based life-form decide to keep the exposure at 2 seconds when I stepped down from f 16 to 22?
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