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09-25-2012, 08:31 PM   #106
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Petitions are positive. Sometimes, it's dark, and there ain't nothing to take a picture of. So we think of how it could be better when it is time for picture taking.

09-25-2012, 10:16 PM   #107
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It'd be nice to take pictures with a de-crippled mount using my K50
09-25-2012, 11:14 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
+1
Rather than all this negative threads which never get anything done anyway, why don't the folks just take more nice photos to showcase what a Pentax system can do, hopefully attracting in more ppl, which keeps Pentax viable and in the end benefits them more than the constant whining.
This isn't a negative thread. Its people who buy and shoot with Pentax cameras asking Pentax to include a cheap feature that many of us want back.

How the hell can anyone be against that?
09-25-2012, 11:55 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mattco26 Quote
This isn't a negative thread. Its people who buy and shoot with Pentax cameras asking Pentax to include a cheap feature that many of us want back.

How the hell can anyone be against that?
Maybe we could also ask Pentax for a manual shutter winder to save battery power too?

09-26-2012, 12:29 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Maybe we could also ask Pentax for a manual shutter winder to save battery power too?
No need for a manual winder : there is no film in the dslr
09-26-2012, 12:54 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
No need for a manual winder : there is no film in the dslr
Not for the film, but to wind the shutter mechanism. And I was joking of course.
09-26-2012, 02:20 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Not for the film, but to wind the shutter mechanism. And I was joking of course.
i was joking too ... there is a roll in DSLR
09-26-2012, 02:39 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
for me, it is not just the crippled K mount, and in fact, I can live with that more than something else.
Any pro camera should have dual flash system support TTL and P-TTL because there are times when shooting with TTL is better, and that would make flash photography possible for K and M42 users.
Since the crippled K mount issue impacts both automated metering and exposure modes, and flash capability, we need to determine which is more likely / logical to get, I know both is the best answer, but if there is only one, the flash would have it.
green button metering is not that bad compared to open aperture metering and Av as well as M modes for old lenses, but no flash is a killer
This. This. This.

09-26-2012, 06:46 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
The real issue with an uncrippled K mount is that the metering today (K10/K20 were the worst examples, but all DSLRs have issues) is that the camera needs to know the true open aperture to meter ambient light correctly. As noted earlier, just look at a K10D for metering. The uncrippled K mount would not fix this, and therefore, since each lens would need its own exposure compensation, there would be even more complaints than we have now about metering etc...

Therefore, since metering accuracy would be suspect at best. Let's set aside that need, since using a manual lens with green button is all we need any way. Let's address what we really lost with aperture control, and that is flash, because P-TTL also needs to know the open aperture metering and also the selected astute. Maybe, it could do this without knowing the true aperture and only the stops down from open, but the overall metering would be just as in accurate as the green button today with a manual lens, and again people would bitch about it.

The most useable function, as I said all along is TTL flash. Give that back, at least on one modern body. It is a ton more useable than giving automation to someone who has already rejected auto focus and auto modes
But all it needs is telling the camera what the open aperture is. You can even modify the lens to do this like an A lens, so you don't have to tell the camera at startup. (This is fairly easy, while modifying it to actually work as an A lens is nearly impossible.)

With this change we could get:
  • Working P-TTL flash.
  • Continuous metering, which I would really like.
  • Aperture readout in the finder, which I would also really like.
  • More accurate metering, which I think everyone would like.
  • The best experience with F and FA lenses, since there are no three wheel cameras.

I'd still like TTL flash back though, because it works with anything, not just K-mount lenses.
09-26-2012, 08:31 AM   #115
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+1 for de-cripling the K mount lenses. Pentax has a great opportunity to turn into a very diverse product by doing so, and adding the FF DSLR. People could build their systems quickly at a lower cost and upgrade as they move forward to the newer lenses and the newer coatings.

Regards,
09-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by drougge Quote
But all it needs is telling the camera what the open aperture is. You can even modify the lens to do this like an A lens, so you don't have to tell the camera at startup. (This is fairly easy, while modifying it to actually work as an A lens is nearly impossible.)

With this change we could get:
  • Working P-TTL flash.
  • Continuous metering, which I would really like.
  • Aperture readout in the finder, which I would also really like.
  • More accurate metering, which I think everyone would like.
  • The best experience with F and FA lenses, since there are no three wheel cameras.

I'd still like TTL flash back though, because it works with anything, not just K-mount lenses.
I would argue more accurate metering.

To do this would require not only an uncrippeled mount but also inputting lens maximum aperture. there is an issue already with open aperture metering where the camera must know the true maximum aperture due to differences in the reflection off different view screens to the meter K10D and K20 D were the worst, but all bodies suffer from this issue.
09-27-2012, 04:12 AM - 3 Likes   #117
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To summarize:

Statements from the interview at Photokina:
  • Feedback from enthusiast users will not be ignored in the Ricoh system.
  • A de-crippled K-mount would be realized (i.e. the aperture ring coupler would be restored), if such "user feelings" are expressed and the corresponding "voices will be increased".
Why this petition:
  • De-crippling the K-mount will lead to an increased and/or more reliable functionality with all lenses possessing an aperture ring.
  • Such an implementation would be straightforward (present in nearly all Pentax film SLRs) and at low cost (mechanical sensor + software implementation). Considering the price of a current DSLR, the additional charge should be marginal.
  • Thus, it is an ideal test case to check the promise of Pentax/Ricoh. Do they really care about the wishes of the enthusiast user base? Nikon, in comparison, cared and realized such a feature.



You did suggest some kind of "voting system or counting system" or "a poll". I asked for a counter or an "I'm in" button. This is the response I got from PentaxForums.com Staff:
QuoteQuote:
Please use the "Likes" system for your petition, asking members to thumbs-up the thread or reply if they want the de-crippled mount.
I like being liked . So, do so, if you wish (-> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/200075-pentax-rico...-petition.html). However, this thread is rather meant to support the idea or the petition (and not me ).
Just a reply here also would not be sufficient, as some members post several times and not all members agree with this campaign.
So, as in a typical petition, I have collected only the supporters up to now in the following way:

Supporter number xxx
Corresponding post #xxxx
Member name xxx (followed by a short comment in brackets)

xxx #xxxx xxx
------------------------------------------
001 #---1 froeschle
002 #like Alfie (+ --24: Count my vote!)
003 #like tibi
004 #---4 Aegon (old lenses more useful)
005 #---8 Docrwm (would be nice ... improvement)
006 #---9 Lowell Goudge (not just the crippled K mount ... flash system)
007 #--13 NaHoruk (great little feature)
008 #--14 paulh (cites 9 -> +1 to this)
009 #--17 kcobain1992 (I'm in)
010 #--18 Not a Number (I'm for this)
011 #--22 JoostW (I endorse a petition)
012 #--23 Tanzer (I'm all for it)
013 #--25 kaiserz (Awesome! I would love that on my next DSLR!)
014 #--27 kenyee (doesn't seem like a hard thing to add)
015 #--30 architorture (Please yes!continuing to develop full frame technologies)
016 #--31 geojazz (DE CRIPPLE THE K MOUNT!!!! )
017 #--32 LFLee (I'm in.)
018 #--33 Mattco26 (I'm all for this, #--85: Nikon does it for their "hobbyists" so why not Pentax?)
019 #--34 GabrielFFontes (Of course! De-cripple it, please)
020 #--35 jeffshaddix (+1 de-cripple it!)
021 #--36 wcchamp18 (+2 de-cripple it!)
022 #--37 Carloz (+1 for de-cripple - Nikon cares enough to maintain an uncrippled mount)
023 #--38 foto guy (+1 for de-crippling.)
024 #--41 Designosophy (This would make life with K and M type lenses so much easier. Why did they remove this capability in the first place)
025 #--43 TomTextura (great it would be to use any of the current FA lenses with aperture rings)
026 #--45 Canada_Rockies (Count me in for the de-crippled mount, and even more so for TTL)
027 #--48 Compur (Count me in.)
028 #--49 Grigoris (I'm also in)
029 #--50 DimitryMD (+1 from me)
030 #--51 aurele (Pentax could do the same : uncripple the mount)
031 #--52 french_mike (+1)
032 #--53 Warpig (I'm in too)
033 #--54 wisent (count me in)
034 #--55 Macario (De-crippeling the K-mount)
035 #--62 ossy59 (Please Pentax, uncripple the K-mount. Itīs only a few Cent or Dollars, and will help us (old) Pentaxians a lot. For me the uncrippled K-mount is more interesting than a FF-DSLR!)
036 #--63 mattiag (Please Pentax-Ricoh de-cripple the K-mount! This can be one of the most important new features in the upcoming cameras, more than FF.)
037 #--64 GibbyTheMole (Yep... I'm for de-crippling the mount.)
038 #--65 Mace (I am also pro a de-crippled K-mount.)
039 #--67 Designosophy (Sounds good to me.)
040 #--68 paulusje (And to me.)
041 #--70 drougge (Yes please, uncrippled mount!)
042 #--72 theperception2008 (I would like to have a non-crippled k-mount!)
043 #--76 Echo Eric (There should be no reason why a new top of the line SLR cant preform as my 30 year old K1000 can.)
044 #--78 geofferiah (I will only buy a Pentax FF if it comes with an un-crippled K mount.)
045 #--86 Quicksand (An uncrippled mount would be pretty good)
046 #--95 TaoMaas (I see uncrippling the k-mount as simply a way to make one of Pentax's biggest selling points even better.)
047 #-107 iht (It'd be nice to take pictures with a de-crippled mount)
048 #-115 BigDave (+1 for de-cripling the K mount)

Please correct the collected data and add your positive vote to the list if you wish.

Regards,
froeschle

Last edited by froeschle; 09-28-2012 at 05:40 AM.
09-27-2012, 05:43 AM - 1 Like   #118
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I have linked this petition in German dfn: Blesator
Some users already have requested to add their names to the list (under the label #+dfn):

xxx #xxxx xxx
------------------------------------------
001 #---1 froeschle
002 #like Alfie (+ --24: Count my vote!)
003 #like tibi
004 #---4 Aegon (old lenses more useful)
005 #---8 Docrwm (would be nice ... improvement)
006 #---9 Lowell Goudge (not just the crippled K mount ... flash system)
007 #--13 NaHoruk (great little feature)
008 #--14 paulh (cites 9 -> +1 to this)
009 #--17 kcobain1992 (I'm in)
010 #--18 Not a Number (I'm for this)
011 #--22 JoostW (I endorse a petition)
012 #--23 Tanzer (I'm all for it)
013 #--25 kaiserz (Awesome! I would love that on my next DSLR!)
014 #--27 kenyee (doesn't seem like a hard thing to add)
015 #--30 architorture (Please yes!continuing to develop full frame technologies)
016 #--31 geojazz (DE CRIPPLE THE K MOUNT!!!! )
017 #--32 LFLee (I'm in.)
018 #--33 Mattco26 (I'm all for this, #--85: Nikon does it for their "hobbyists" so why not Pentax?)
019 #--34 GabrielFFontes (Of course! De-cripple it, please)
020 #--35 jeffshaddix (+1 de-cripple it!)
021 #--36 wcchamp18 (+2 de-cripple it!)
022 #--37 Carloz (+1 for de-cripple - Nikon cares enough to maintain an uncrippled mount)
023 #--38 foto guy (+1 for de-crippling.)
024 #--41 Designosophy (This would make life with K and M type lenses so much easier. Why did they remove this capability in the first place)
025 #--43 TomTextura (great it would be to use any of the current FA lenses with aperture rings)
026 #--45 Canada_Rockies (Count me in for the de-crippled mount, and even more so for TTL)
027 #--48 Compur (Count me in.)
028 #--49 Grigoris (I'm also in)
029 #--50 DimitryMD (+1 from me)
030 #--51 aurele (Pentax could do the same : uncripple the mount)
031 #--52 french_mike (+1)
032 #--53 Warpig (I'm in too)
033 #--54 wisent (count me in)
034 #--55 Macario (De-crippeling the K-mount)
035 #--62 ossy59 (Please Pentax, uncripple the K-mount.
Itīs only a few Cent or Dollars, and will help us (old) Pentaxians a lot. For me the uncrippled K-mount is more interesting than a FF-DSLR!)
036 #--63 mattiag (Please Pentax-Ricoh de-cripple the K-mount! This can be one of the most important new features in the upcoming cameras, more than FF.)
037 #--64 GibbyTheMole (Yep... I'm for de-crippling the mount.)
038 #--65 Mace (I am also pro a de-crippled K-mount.)
039 #--67 Designosophy (Sounds good to me.)
040 #--68 paulusje (And to me.)
041 #--70 drougge (Yes please, uncrippled mount!)
042 #--72 theperception2008 (I would like to have a non-crippled k-mount!)
043 #--76 Echo Eric (There should be no reason why a new top of the line SLR cant preform as my 30 year old K1000 can.)
044 #--78 geofferiah (I will only buy a Pentax FF if it comes with an un-crippled K mount.)
045 #--86 Quicksand (An uncrippled mount would be pretty good)
046 #--95 TaoMaas (I see uncrippling the k-mount as simply a way to make one of Pentax's biggest selling points even better.)
047 #-107 iht (It'd be nice to take pictures with a de-crippled mount)
048 #-115 BigDave (+1 for de-cripling the K mount)
049 #+dfn fibbo
050 #+dfn zackspeed (-> send this list to Mr. Shiro Kondo)
051 #+dfn gianni
09-27-2012, 07:41 AM   #119
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Yes please, decripple the K mount. I have a whole box of M series lenses to unleash!
09-27-2012, 08:10 AM   #120
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xxx #xxxx xxx
------------------------------------------
001 #---1 froeschle
002 #like Alfie (+ --24: Count my vote!)
003 #like tibi
004 #---4 Aegon (old lenses more useful)
005 #---8 Docrwm (would be nice ... improvement)
006 #---9 Lowell Goudge (not just the crippled K mount ... flash system)
007 #like NaHoruk (+ --13, great little feature)
008 #--14 paulh (cites 9 -> +1 to this)
009 #--17 kcobain1992 (I'm in)
010 #--18 Not a Number (I'm for this)
011 #--22 JoostW (I endorse a petition)
012 #--23 Tanzer (I'm all for it)
013 #--25 kaiserz (Awesome! I would love that on my next DSLR!)
014 #--27 kenyee (doesn't seem like a hard thing to add)
015 #--30 architorture (Please yes!continuing to develop full frame technologies)
016 #--31 geojazz (DE CRIPPLE THE K MOUNT!!!! )
017 #--32 LFLee (I'm in.)
018 #--33 Mattco26 (I'm all for this, #--85: Nikon does it for their "hobbyists" so why not Pentax?)
019 #--34 GabrielFFontes (Of course! De-cripple it, please)
020 #--35 jeffshaddix (+1 de-cripple it!)
021 #--36 wcchamp18 (+2 de-cripple it!)
022 #--37 Carloz (+1 for de-cripple - Nikon cares enough to maintain an uncrippled mount)
023 #--38 foto guy (+1 for de-crippling.)
024 #--41 Designosophy (This would make life with K and M type lenses so much easier. Why did they remove this capability in the first place)
025 #--43 TomTextura (great it would be to use any of the current FA lenses with aperture rings)
026 #--45 Canada_Rockies (Count me in for the de-crippled mount, and even more so for TTL)
027 #--48 Compur (Count me in.)
028 #--49 Grigoris (I'm also in)
029 #--50 DimitryMD (+1 from me)
030 #--51 aurele (Pentax could do the same : uncripple the mount)
031 #like french_mike (+ #--52, +1)
032 #--53 Warpig (I'm in too)
033 #--54 wisent (count me in)
034 #--55 Macario (De-crippeling the K-mount)
035 #--62 ossy59 (Please Pentax, uncripple the K-mount. Itīs only a few Cent or Dollars, and will help us (old) Pentaxians a lot. For me the uncrippled K-mount is more interesting than a FF-DSLR!)
036 #--63 mattiag (Please Pentax-Ricoh de-cripple the K-mount! This can be one of the most important new features in the upcoming cameras, more than FF.)
037 #--64 GibbyTheMole (Yep... I'm for de-crippling the mount.)
038 #--65 Mace (I am also pro a de-crippled K-mount.)
039 #--67 Designosophy (Sounds good to me.)
040 #--68 paulusje (And to me.)
041 #--70 drougge (Yes please, uncrippled mount!)
042 #--72 theperception2008 (I would like to have a non-crippled k-mount!)
043 #--76 Echo Eric (There should be no reason why a new top of the line SLR cant preform as my 30 year old K1000 can.)
044 #--78 geofferiah (I will only buy a Pentax FF if it comes with an un-crippled K mount.)
045 #--86 Quicksand (An uncrippled mount would be pretty good)
046 #--95 TaoMaas (I see uncrippling the k-mount as simply a way to make one of Pentax's biggest selling points even better.)
047 #-107 iht (It'd be nice to take pictures with a de-crippled mount)
048 #-115 BigDave (+1 for de-cripling the K mount)
049 #+dfn fibbo
050 #+dfn zackspeed (-> send this list to Mr. Shiro Kondo)
051 #+dfn gianni
052 #like southlander (+ #-119, Yes please, decripple the K mount.)
053 #+dfn TaxPen

(#+dfn: Blesator and Nikon vs. Pentax)

Please correct the collected data and add your positive vote to the list if you wish.
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