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09-24-2012, 01:14 PM - 31 Likes   #1
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Pentax/Ricoh: De-cripple the K-mount! PETITION





274 users already have signed this petition to de-cripple the Pentax K-mount (i.e. to restore the aperture ring coupler).




Excerpt from this interview:
QuoteQuote:
Q: Will the Pentax K-mount ever be "de-crippled" (i.e. will the aperture ring coupler be restored?)
QuoteQuote:
A: technology ... develops ... less importance for the users ... user merit ... user feelings ... if voices will be increased ... yes ...
One of the very few reasons, why I would consider to buy an APS-DSLR again: A de-crippled PKAF2-mount.
An important feature, which the D7000 offers but the K-5 II(s) still lacks.
Why not invest some cents or even dollars?

QuoteQuote:
So far: Just welcome, transfer and pray. Ricoh system: ... feedback from enthusiast users ...
Pentaxians, let your voices be heard !




Copied from #117:
QuoteQuote:
To summarize:

Statements from the interview at Photokina:
  • Feedback from enthusiast users will not be ignored in the Ricoh system.
  • A de-crippled K-mount would be realized (i.e. the aperture ring coupler would be restored), if such "user feelings" are expressed and the corresponding "voices will be increased".
Why this petition:
  • De-crippling the K-mount will lead to an increased and/or more reliable functionality with all lenses possessing an aperture ring.
  • Such an implementation would be straightforward (present in nearly all Pentax film SLRs) and at low cost (mechanical sensor + software implementation). Considering the price of a current DSLR, the additional charge should be marginal.
  • Thus, it is an ideal test case to check the promise of Pentax/Ricoh. Do they really care about the wishes of the enthusiast user base? Nikon, in comparison, cared and realized such a feature.



You did suggest some kind of "voting system or counting system" or "a poll". I asked for a counter or an "I'm in" button. This is the response I got from PentaxForums.com Staff:
QuoteQuote:
Please use the "Likes" system for your petition, asking members to thumbs-up the thread or reply if they want the de-crippled mount.
I like being liked . So, do so, if you wish (-> Pentax/Ricoh: De-cripple the K-mount! PETITION - PentaxForums.com). However, this thread is rather meant to support the idea or the petition (and not me ).
Just a reply here also would not be sufficient, as some members post several times and not all members agree with this campaign.
So, as in a typical petition, I have collected only the supporters up to now in the following way:

Supporter number xxx
Corresponding post #xxxx
Member name xxx (followed by a short comment in brackets)




LAST UPDATE: 12/03/2014 13:30 CEST

xxx #xxxx xxx
------------------------------------------
001 #---1 froeschle
002 #like Alfie (+ #--24: Count my vote!)
003 #like tibi
004 #---4 Aegon (old lenses more useful)
005 #---8 Docrwm (would be nice ... improvement)
006 #---9 Lowell Goudge (not just the crippled K mount ... flash system)
007 #like NaHoruk (+ #--13, great little feature)
008 #--14 paulh (cites 9 -> +1 to this)
009 #--17 kcobain1992 (I'm in)
010 #--18 Not a Number (I'm for this)
011 #--22 JoostW (I endorse a petition)
012 #--23 Tanzer (I'm all for it)
013 #--25 kaiserz (Awesome! I would love that on my next DSLR!)
014 #--27 kenyee (doesn't seem like a hard thing to add)
015 #--30 architorture (Please yes!continuing to develop full frame technologies)
016 #--31 geojazz (DE CRIPPLE THE K MOUNT!!!! )
017 #--32 LFLee (I'm in.)
018 #--33 Mattco26 (I'm all for this, #--85: Nikon does it for their "hobbyists" so why not Pentax?)
019 #--34 GabrielFFontes (Of course! De-cripple it, please)
020 #--35 jeffshaddix (+1 de-cripple it!)
021 #--36 wcchamp18 (+2 de-cripple it!)
022 #--37 Carloz (+1 for de-cripple - Nikon cares enough to maintain an uncrippled mount)
023 #--38 foto guy (+1 for de-crippling.)
024 #--41 Designosophy (This would make life with K and M type lenses so much easier. Why did they remove this capability in the first place)
025 #--43 TomTextura (great it would be to use any of the current FA lenses with aperture rings)
026 #--45 Canada_Rockies (Count me in for the de-crippled mount, and even more so for TTL)
027 #--48 Compur (Count me in.)
028 #--49 Grigoris (I'm also in)
029 #--50 DimitryMD (+1 from me)
030 #--51 aurele (Pentax could do the same : uncripple the mount)
031 #like french_mike (+ #--52, +1)
032 #--53 Warpig (I'm in too)
033 #--54 wisent (count me in)
034 #--55 Macario (De-crippeling the K-mount)
035 #--62 ossy59 (Please Pentax, uncripple the K-mount. It´s only a few Cent or Dollars, and will help us (old) Pentaxians a lot. For me the uncrippled K-mount is more interesting than a FF-DSLR!)
036 #--63 mattiag (Please Pentax-Ricoh de-cripple the K-mount! This can be one of the most important new features in the upcoming cameras, more than FF.)
037 #--64 GibbyTheMole (Yep... I'm for de-crippling the mount.)
038 #--65 Mace (I am also pro a de-crippled K-mount.)
039 #--67 Designosophy (Sounds good to me.)
040 #--68 paulusje (And to me.)
041 #--70 drougge (Yes please, uncrippled mount!)
042 #--72 theperception2008 (I would like to have a non-crippled k-mount!)
043 #--76 Echo Eric (There should be no reason why a new top of the line SLR cant preform as my 30 year old K1000 can.)
044 #--78 geofferiah (I will only buy a Pentax FF if it comes with an un-crippled K mount.)
045 #--86 Quicksand (An uncrippled mount would be pretty good)
046 #--95 TaoMaas (I see uncrippling the k-mount as simply a way to make one of Pentax's biggest selling points even better.)
047 #-107 iht (It'd be nice to take pictures with a de-crippled mount)
048 #-115 BigDave (+1 for de-cripling the K mount)
049 #+dfn fibbo
050 #+dfn zackspeed (-> send this list to Mr. Shiro Kondo)
051 #+dfn gianni
052 #like southlander (+ #-119, Yes please, decripple the K mount.)
053 #+dfn TaxPen
054 #like feverbeaver (add me to the list)
055 #like adrianpglover (Add me to the list! Full manual mode only is not sufficient backward compatibility!)
056 #-125 V'cuz (Add me to the De-cripple the K-mount petition.)
057 #-126 riff (Yes a decrippled k mount is something I want badly!)
058 #-127 yyyzzz (Count me in.)
059 #like tromboads (+ #-128, +1 over here too!)
060 #p--9 Fogel70 (I voted for Uncrippled K mount for M and K series lenses)
061 #p-12 baro-nite (I maxed my votes for K-mount continuation and uncrippled K-mount.)
062 #p-39 befocus (Uncrippled K mount)
063 #p-54 Digitalis (a non-crippled KAF-mount)
064 #p110 stanislav (I would actually like non crippled K mount)
065 #like eddie1960 (liked #---1)
066 #like hjb981 (+ #-134, liked #-123, Very good initiative!!!)
067 #Bdfn ergoden (Blesator -> will ich auch ... möchte ... Blendenring verwenden können)
068 #Bdfn wema02
069 #-131 Kreepax (Add my vote)
070 #-133 Yamagi (a de-crippled mount would be wonderful)
071 #Bdfn ice-dragon
072 #Bdfn Al
073 #Bdfn Arnold (I want the aperture simulator back!)
074 #-137 regentag (I would buy a new Body just for that feature)
075 #like vrrattko (liked #---1, decrippled K mount is a lovely idea)
076 #Bdfn Lefty de Vito (Somit bin ich für den Blesator)
077 #Bdfn Juan
078 #Bdfn derstefan
079 #Bdfn klaus123
080 #Bdfn PINSELHUT
081 #Bdfn Normag 1
082 #Bdfn UndKlick
083 #Bdfn cola (Der Blendensimulator und KB Format würden mich zum Kauf einer PENTAX DSLR bringen)
084 #Bdfn bmk
085 #Bdfn Rauti2
086 #-dfn ErnstK (PM: möchte ich deine 'Petition' ... gern unterstützen)
087 #-139 networker
088 #Bdfn Austro-Diesel (Wär schon schön, fände ich nützlicher als 24x36 mm ...)
089 #Bdfn Orangefield
090 #Bdfn bmu
091 #-141 fs999 (need it for my bellows)
092 #-142 agchang (Pentax has proudly marketed the fact of backward lens compatibility with all slr/dslr cameras and should do so fully in all feature aspects)
093 #-144 Spodeworld (+1! Yes! I love this feature on my D7000 ! Add it to Pentax!)
094 #-145 perron
095 #Bdfn wolfi_z (a great improvement on the issue of backward compatibility)
096 #Bdfn boxer-harry
097 #Bdfn einherzfuerknipser
098 #Bdfn Ramashang
099 #Bdfn AES
100 #Bdfn Yogibaer.bln
101 #Bdfn 1a rabenvater
102 #Bdfn Teevogel
103 #Bdfn penlei (ein Traum könnte in Erfüllung gehen)
104 #Bdfn BerndS67
105 #Bdfn paul
106 #-151 carrrlangas (yes please!)
107 #-152 tlong423 (I would love to see Pentax de-cripple the K mount.)
108 #-153 JorgeR (Yes, please)
109 #-156 jt_cph_dk (Yes. I would like a de-crippled Pentax DSLR)
110 #like UliBär (+ #-157, I vote definitely YES!)
111 #Bdfn learza
112 #-163 iDon (I would definitely buy a de-crippled Pentax DSLR)
113 #-167 Pioneer (I would like to have the K-Mount on my dslr to work the way it does on my PZ-1p. That should not be that difficult to do.)
114 #like Nass (liked #---1)
115 #Bdfn HKMKonz
116 #Bdfn Hasenvater
117 #-170 Roob-N-Boots (Count me in.)
118 #-171 Davidw0815 (Open aperture metering with old lenses would be fantastic!)
119 #Bdfn Eisbär
120 #-179 MysteryOnion (De-cripple it!)
121 #-184 bobpur (Just not acceptable that Pentax has not included this on the K5s after all they advertise the compatibility with the older lenses. If Nikon can do it Pentax should.)
122 #-187 Digitalis (you can count me in. Pentax didn't cripple the mount with the 645D)
123 #-188 Jonathan Mac (I'd love a de-crippled K-mount and yes, it's a feature I would be prepared to pay for.)
124 #-190 topace (let me use my aperture rings the way they were meant to be used, please.)
125 #-191 henrx (Positive)
126 #-192 codeblock (+1, count me in.)
127 #-193 pixelsaurus (+1. Seems like a good idea.)
128 #-194 Gerbermiester (+1. Decripple the K-mount!)
129 #-195 _quicksilver_ (+1 De-cripple it -Now!!)
130 #Bdfn Master of Disaster (Also bin ich dabei!)
131 #Bdfn manolo (Als leidenschaftlicher Altgerätenutzer schließe ich mich natürlich an.)
132 #Bdfn pid (Mich auch!)
133 #-197 dlacouture (I'm in)
134 #-198 MiLKMAN (Count me in)
135 #Bdfn henne (Please give me back the freedom to fully use all the Pentax lenses I've been buying since 1980!)
136 #Bdfn waldbaer59
137 #Bdfn tatrei
138 #-202 obscura (if one of your main selling points is great backward lens compatibility, why the hell do you cripple it ?)
139 #-203 Lupine (so count me in as well, for both de-crippling the K-mount and restoring TTL)
140 #-204 Stratman (I'm in too!!)
141 #-206 gabriel_bc (I've long, long wished that Pentax would de-cripple the K mount. I would buy a new Pentax dSLR merely to have this feature.)
142 #-208 bofh (I'd like to have a full featured KAF2 mount)
143 #-210 lguckert79 (i would love to be able to meter and have controle of my apture ring again)
144 #-214 glasbak (Yes, I want a decrippled mount)
145 #-217 zokes83 (+1 Yes I want a De-crippled K-mount with a aperture ring coupler!)
146 #-220 geedee (A De-crippled K-Mount with a aperture ring coupler would be great! Let's hope Pentax reacts as they have announced.)
147 #like Katier (liked #---1)
148 #Bdfn africanarcher
149 #Bdfn Schellnsau
150 #Bdfn Alfix
151 #-233 tcom (+1, please add me on this list)
152 #-Moderator Bramela (+ #-294, the Pentax consumer wishes to be heard on this issue)
153 #Bdfn blaubaersurfen
154 #Bdfn AS
155 #-235 utak (Yes, please count me in: de-cripple.)
156 #Bdfn Thomasz Xatnep (You can count me in. For a full-frame Pentax this would be mandatory)
157 #-236 Transit (Yes please !)
158 #-237 stingray (Count me in, yes the old fashion way.)
159 #-238 Pentaxle (Very much in favor, heal the system.)
160 #-239 grahame (Pentax should have done that much earlier! Or it shouldn't have been crippled at the beginning!)
161 #-241 floriko
162 #-242 p38arover
163 #-245 Bukaj (Shooting with [...] film cameras with non-crippled mounts makes me wish Pentax de-crippled the mount on current DSLRs)
164 #-249 LaurenOE
165 #-250 rockmaster1964
166 #Bdfn reisschuessel
167 #Bdfn Heribert
168 #Bdfn JGS
169 #-253 kadajawi (if they added the feature for the next camera I'd have to buy a new camera... again!)
170 #-255 TedH42 (using the green button is disruptive, especially for hand-held macro shots)
171 #-256 torge (Yes Ricoh, please do it!)
172 #-257 gilsouthwood (where the hell is the aperture ring, I'm all for this)
173 #Bdfn knixhh
174 #-267 retroflex (Yes to de-crippling!)
175 #-270 deus ursus (I'm all for de-crippling)
176 #-271 hopsing
177 #like cali92rs (Yes! + #-272)
178 #like SpartanD63
179 #Bdfn Uliwin
180 #-276 vkaro45 (I vote to de-criple the k-mount)
181 #-277 TomB_tx (Wish they would. If Nikon can keep compatibility, so could Pentax.)
182 #-279 JohnBee (Count me in!)
183 #-284 mrNewt (Please count my vote)
184 #-285 Shell650
185 #like jcdoss (+ #-286,+1!)
186 #-287 matakacha (Count me in.)
187 #-288 Dmitriy (I vote for de-crippled full K-mount (with the stop-down coupler/indicator))
188 #-289 VisualDarkness (I'm in too! Pentax would have the best mechanical DSLR mount!)
189 #-291 Pedrodelta (+1 from me too....)
190 #Bdfn Sirius
191 #-293 strixaluco (Add my voice, please.)
192 #-295 chhayanat (Vote for K-mount)
193 #-296 minahasa (I'm in. My old glass needs more respect.)
194 #-297 kevbirder (I would definitely like an uncrippled mount.)
195 #-298 robdewall7 (+1 for me)
196 #-299 filoxophy (I'm in for a decrippled K-Mount)
197 #like drache (Yes please start being awesome again.)
198 #-301 Mr Manual (What a great idea. Might we one day see a FF de-crippled K-mount.)
199 #-303 mattt (Add my name.)
200 #-304 macTak (I would love to see this as well.)
201 #Bdfn Thomas W. [Heidelberg]
202 #Bdfn Dimitris E. [Athen]
203 #Bdfn Thomas F. [München]
204 #Bdfn Michele S. [München]
205 #Bdfn sixtyeight
206 #-306 PPPPPP42 (I wouldn't even bother with Pentax if not for backwards compatibility so this is kinda a big deal)
207 #-307 GordonD (A Full Frame DSLR needs De-Crippled mount!)
208 #-308 Gray (Yes! The cripped K-mount severely weakens Pentax's claim to K-mount backward compatibility. Now imagine how compelling a FF dSLR with uncrippled KAF2 mount will be to owners of 35mm classic lenses)
209 #Bdfn Macshark
210 #-312 g.a.p
211 #-313 Petor
212 #-314 Saxplayer1004 (sign me up. hopefully it comes out on the next round of bodies... )
213 #-316 Billgscott (Yes please!)
214 #-317 Mazhe (Sign me up. Let the sun shine on K and M series as they deserve)
215 #like tzrenz0 (this will send the backwards compatibility of pentax to new heights)
216 #like tx0h
217 #-318 sphenodont (The legacy lenses are supposed to be a selling point, so why not fully embrace them? )
218 #-319 pentaxdevotee (please d-cripple)
219 #-321 indy (Pentax needs to de-cripple and go beyond.)
220 #-323 Guakala (De-cripple it now!)
221 #like BigJPR (it sounds like common sense to me!!!)
222 #-325 apathey2131978
223 #-328 deaning (Pentax, listen to the people! )
224 #-329 Belgarchi (Pentax, I want to be able to use my aperture rings!)
225 #-330 Pepe Le Pew (Sign me up Scotty )
226 #-332 Nuff
227 #like stens (liked #---1)
228 #-333 Corto-PA (Signed.)
229 #-334 Pontax
230 #-335 iveous (I would LOVE that feature)
231 #-336 OJGoreng (The crippled mount is the only thing about the K5 I really, really don't like.)
232 #-337 kiwi_jono (I'm in - I would love to see a decrippled mount too.)
233 #-338 kristaps
234 #-341 Brisboy (Decripple please)
235 #-342 Boris_Akunin (Thou shalt not sell crippled cameras!)
236 #-343 todd (i'm in!)
237 #Bdfn Tilla
238 #-345 camerons
239 #-347 Atlantis (this would be a small dream come true)
240 #-348 Johnson (Do away with the minor cost saving Crippled-K)
241 #-349 joergens.mi (would be happy to have this)
242 #Bdfn jedie
243 #-352 Nacho_tyr (+1, from chile)
244 #-353 dominique
245 #-354 tim60 (This would help all users who want to do more sophisticated work, with any series of lenses.)
246 #-355 Quinquen (+1 from Chile, South America)
247 #rice RiceHigh (I have requested this for years now)
248 #-357 tzrenz0 (i'd love to see this on the next offering)
249 #-358 rparmar (one of the main reasons i migrated from pentax to mft. It was a continuous frustration.)
250 #-359 krazykat
251 #Bdfn b.petit
252 #-361 Stephen Coe (I have been wanting this for years.)
253 #-363 Heliotrope (this meager addition would increase the absolute value of
254 #Bdfn Haebbie
255 #-366 SyncGuy
256 #like OldPentaxFan
257 #-368 Sangosto (Yes, we can.)
258 #-369 jbinpg
259 #-370 astraeus19 (Pentax really needs to tout the fact that you can use all old lenses, and make that as easy as possible if they want to sell more bodies under current conditions.)
260 #-371 Heisenberg (I bought my K-5 under the pretense that it was compatible with older lenses, and was very dissapointed to see that there was this major limitation.)
261 #-376 Odinz (My old mechanical low-tech camera bodies can do this without a problem, Please.....De-Cripple the K-Mount!! )
262 #-377 Hornet
263 #-378 Old Man
264 #-379 pento57mm (tired of overriding via body settings)
265 #-380 insulinguy
266 #like lectrolink
267 #like Kmounter (What do we want? Un-cripple the K-mount! When do we want it? NOW!)
268 #-385 nater (I [...] considered creating an online petition for this)
269 #-387 LSR (Please sign me up too.)
270 #like ElleGi53
271 #like valarie (Im In, so many great lenses, that are a bitch to use on the new mount!)
272 #-392 bmf
273 #-395 Fluke
274 #-397 raulmercado

(#+dfn: Blesator and Nikon; #Bdfn: Petition #p---: poll)

Please add your positive vote at the end of the thread.




A printed version of this thread was given to the Pentax representatives at CP+.
The journalist of pentaxforums.com also included a brief paragraph about it and explained it verbally.
Unfortunately, they did not want to comment on it.
There was also no chance to chat with them after the interview.
So, communication still seems to be based on "transfer and pray".
Hopefully, they will take our feedback to heart.



Last edited by froeschle; 03-12-2014 at 05:39 AM.
09-24-2012, 01:26 PM   #2
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I googled and read wikipedia but am still confused, what exactly is crippled k-mount? I know it has something to do with aperture ring and stopping down, but what does this mean and how is it affected?
09-24-2012, 01:33 PM   #3
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The crippled mount is missing the aperture indicating lever connection. If you look at a K/M lens you will see two lever connections that match with two levers readers in the mount. The crippled mount has nothing to tell it what the aperture set is except the electronic connection. This means, for example, that the camera must do stop down metering with the green button on my two M lenses that automatically stops down in my film bodies.
09-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #4
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Before the A setting, lens communicated aperture settings via a feeler arm. Old bodies would sense the current setting on the lens by feeling for the arm. So old bodies knew what aperture setting was currently in use and would meter appropriately without stopping down.

Every Pentax digital camera lacks the feeler arm, so the only way to use old lenses was either all manual or using stop-down metering via the green button.

If they include a feeler sensor, then old lenses would operate smoothly without workarounds.

*CR was quicker in responding, but I'll leave my post too*


---edited---
Imagine being able to easily use a $50 Pentax-M 50mm ƒ/1.7. Great lens, great price, but a minor PITA on crippled bodies. If a non-crippled body existed, then this lens suddenly becomes as useful as the $100 Pentax-A 50mm ƒ/1.7 (though perhaps without P-TTL support).

Similarly, the Pentax K 50 ƒ/1.2 would be easy. And so on. It makes all these nice old lenses more useful.

09-24-2012, 01:35 PM   #5
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Because Pentax really cares about lenses that were sold 30-40 years ago.
09-24-2012, 01:43 PM   #6
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Does my Pentax MX have a crippled k-mount?
09-24-2012, 01:49 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by LeDave Quote
Does my Pentax MX have a crippled k-mount?
No. The "crippled" K mount was introduced on low-end autofocus bodies in the mid-90s.
09-24-2012, 01:55 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
No. The "crippled" K mount was introduced on low-end autofocus bodies in the mid-90s.
And subsequently expanded to the high-end of the line......

It would be a nice, and relatively easy, improvement to all their cameras going forward.

09-24-2012, 01:55 PM - 1 Like   #9
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for me, it is not just the crippled K mount, and in fact, I can live with that more than something else.

Any pro camera should have dual flash system support TTL and P-TTL because there are times when shooting with TTL is better, and that would make flash photography possible for K and M42 users.

Since the crippled K mount issue impacts both automated metering and exposure modes, and flash capability, we need to determine which is more likely / logical to get, I know both is the best answer, but if there is only one, the flash would have it.

green button metering is not that bad compared to open aperture metering and Av as well as M modes for old lenses, but no flash is a killer
09-24-2012, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #10
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Original Poster
QuoteQuote:
Because Pentax really cares about lenses that were sold 30-40 years ago.
Nikon cares! And Pentax has declared the backwards compatibility of the K-mount as (one of) its major advantage(s).
QuoteQuote:
The "crippled" K mount was introduced on low-end autofocus bodies in the mid-90s.
And - unfortunately - is still present in all (-> "low-end") DSLRs.

Summary of the K-Mount Evolution, Names, and Features
Features and Operation of the crippled Kaf Mount

A nice, relatively cheap and easy improvement, which would offer several advantages over the existing "solutions" ...

... and a true test case, whether Pentax/Ricoh really cares about the wishes of the enthusiast user base!

Last edited by froeschle; 09-24-2012 at 02:06 PM.
09-24-2012, 02:10 PM   #11
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All adding the aperture linkage back to the mount would do is allow the lenses to be used in Av mode. They still wouldn't be able to use matrix metering or P-TTL. Bringing back the TTL sensor makes a lot more sense.
09-24-2012, 02:12 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
All adding the aperture linkage back to the mount would do is allow the lenses to be used in Av mode. They still wouldn't be able to use matrix metering or P-TTL. Bringing back the TTL sensor makes a lot more sense.
Ok, how?
09-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #13
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This probably isn't the most important thing, but it would be a great little feature. It would give legitimacy to the Pentax claim that you can use all sorts of old lenses. If they do a couple of these little features, this would really amount to a big overall difference. So I'm all for this. I have my camera in Av mode most of the time, so having it work well with old lenses would be a wonderful addition.

Last edited by Na Horuk; 09-24-2012 at 02:53 PM.
09-24-2012, 02:34 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
for me, it is not just the crippled K mount, and in fact, I can live with that more than something else.

Any pro camera should have dual flash system support TTL and P-TTL because there are times when shooting with TTL is better, and that would make flash photography possible for K and M42 users.
+1 to this. Bring back TTL! It is so cool to be able to use flash so easily with K & M lenses on my *istD. But again, I doubt supporting those old lenses is at the top of Pentax's to-do list.
09-24-2012, 02:35 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Ok, how?
See post #9. The *istD and *istDS had both TTL and P-TTL, why go P-TTL only? The answer of course was to sell new flashes and lenses.
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