No FF for at least two years.

TaoMaas · 09-26-2012, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by normhead

So you're talking bringing out a new product to compete with players that have a huge headstart and have been in the market for years, and have a huge market share.

That's the hurdle for Pentax if they choose to move into FF. They will always be playing "catch-up".

panoguy · 09-26-2012, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

That's the hurdle for Pentax if they choose to move into FF. They will always be playing "catch-up".

Yep, and that's not an enviable position in an accelerating market like FF DSLRs has become. I had hopes Pentax would go a new direction and do a K-01 kind of "mirrorless hybrid" that natively supports SLR lenses, but with a FF sensor (and EVF), and now it looks like Sony beat them to market with that idea as well. Of course, Sony can afford to take expensive risks and fall flat - Nikon will still buy all those FF sensors they make!

fuent104 · 09-26-2012, 12:27 PM - **1 Like**

I think the people on this forum have actually been pretty kind towards Pentax leadership.

Honestly, I think they are basically behaving like jerks, in regards to the full frame question. It's pretty simple...give us a real answer. An honest, real answer. "No, we definitely will not be making a full frame camera in the next couple years."

They may think it's cute to speak in innuendo and nod and wink, while not really saying anything. They are wrong. Really, what I think they are trying to do, is plant the seed of hope in the people who want full frame. Because they know that, if they do give the real answer, people who want full frame will switch systems. It is a major hassle to switch systems. To the people who say "if you don't like it, just switch..."...that is a major commitment. It would mean, in my case, selling a lot of lenses, most of which I would probably have to sell for a loss. Alternately, I could alter the lenses physically, but I don't want to do that.

I don't buy into the "there's no market for a Pentax full frame argument." Industry leaders create markets. Fuji wasn't afraid to create the X100 and X-Pro systems, Ricoh wasn't afraid to create the GXR (not that I would call Ricoh a leader), and Olympus wasn't afraid to create the OM-D. Sometimes you have to take risks to reap rewards. Many of the products that have made waves over the last few years have been bold products. GoPro, BMCC, RX-100, etc. If Pentax is going to continue to take actions based on fear rather than courage, they truly deserve the position they are in.

I do realize the Q and the K-01 don't fit into this mentality. I don't know what to make of those two systems. The Q is great, but Pentax obviously doesn't know how to sell it. I don't know who they made the K-01 for. But, hey, the design community really likes it.

**Lowell Goudge** · 09-26-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

I think the people on this forum have actually been pretty kind towards Pentax leadership.

Honestly, I think they are basically behaving like jerks, in regards to the full frame question. It's pretty simple...give us a real answer. An honest, real answer. "No, we definitely will not be making a full frame camera in the next couple years."

They may think it's cute to speak in innuendo and nod and wink, while not really saying anything. They are wrong. Really, what I think they are trying to do, is plant the seed of hope in the people who want full frame. Because they know that, if they do give the real answer, people who want full frame will switch systems. It is a major hassle to switch systems. To the people who say "if you don't like it, just switch..."...that is a major commitment. It would mean, in my case, selling a lot of lenses, most of which I would probably have to sell for a loss. Alternately, I could alter the lenses physically, but I don't want to do that.

I don't buy into the "there's no market for a Pentax full frame argument." Industry leaders create markets. Fuji wasn't afraid to create the X100 and X-Pro systems, Ricoh wasn't afraid to create the GXR (not that I would call Ricoh a leader), and Olympus wasn't afraid to create the OM-D. Sometimes you have to take risks to reap rewards. Many of the products that have made waves over the last few years have been bold products. GoPro, BMCC, RX-100, etc. If Pentax is going to continue to take actions based on fear rather than courage, they truly deserve the position they are in.

I do realize the Q and the K-01 don't fit into this mentality. I don't know what to make of those two systems. The Q is great, but Pentax obviously doesn't know how to sell it. I don't know who they made the K-01 for. But, hey, the design community really likes it.

No offence here but exactly what the #&!! are you expecting from a business that has been sold twice in the past 5 years plus had several joint ventures cancelled. (you recall samsung, and also the cooperative lens design with tokina?)

if you want a firm answer, there is one that has been out there since day one of the full frame issue. Pentax remains committed to the APS-C format!

Just because it is not the answer you want to hear, too bad. get over it

END OF RANT

Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 10-02-2012 at 08:34 AM.

Class A · 10-01-2012, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I have to ask, at this point, what are you guys waiting for?

I'm waiting for the two years to be over and will then grab my Pentax FF.

Meanwhile a K-3 (or K-5 II, if the former does not sufficiently justify its higher price point) will service me just fine.

Andi Lo · 10-02-2012, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Most of my lenses are Das an FA 50 and DA 35 will do FF, as well as the Tamron 90, but the DA*60-250 is by far my favourite lens and it's not FF compatible. So what are you going to do?

The 60-250 is a good lens but really it's Pentax that was playing catch up when it was released; Get a 70-200 (2.8 or 4 in canon, 2.8 in nikon), in an FF body and you'll have more or less replaced the lens.

If you're more into telephoto, APSC might just serve you fine though. FF argument is much stronger in the wider and normal end of focal length imho.

Blue · 10-02-2012, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by normhead

Exactly.... the *ist was supposed to be FF. Pentax got burned. They obviously have nothing against FF per se. But you have to ask... would FF increase their market share? If they put money and resources into FF they want it back. And there is no saying that the stuff they've developed in APS-c can be used in an FF body.

So you're talking bringing out a new product to compete with players that have a huge headstart and have been in the market for years, and have a huge market share. Pentax has to look at where they fit into that. My guess is that no one who isn't prepared to suffer a huge hit to their rep. is going to push for that option. IF the Pentax FF turned out to be a hit, they could be the next CEO, if it failed miserably for whatever reason... they could be running on their sword. You'd need to be a real gambling man.

Up to this point, I don't think FF has increased Canon or Nikon's market share except among those that really needed it or wanted it. However, this new wave of "budget" ff bodies may change that paradigm.

Blue · 10-02-2012, 08:27 AM

The argument to avoid answer ff questions could be made during the hostile takeover attempts by Hoya and during Hoya ownership. Now that Ricoh owns the Pentax camera division, they really could give an answer in this regard. Pentax has been messing around with ff for 12 years.

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09-26-2012, 09:23 AM	#16
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by normhead So you're talking bringing out a new product to compete with players that have a huge headstart and have been in the market for years, and have a huge market share. That's the hurdle for Pentax if they choose to move into FF. They will always be playing "catch-up".

09-26-2012, 11:17 AM	#17
panoguy Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,327	Originally posted by TaoMaas That's the hurdle for Pentax if they choose to move into FF. They will always be playing "catch-up". Yep, and that's not an enviable position in an accelerating market like FF DSLRs has become. I had hopes Pentax would go a new direction and do a K-01 kind of "mirrorless hybrid" that natively supports SLR lenses, but with a FF sensor (and EVF), and now it looks like Sony beat them to market with that idea as well. Of course, Sony can afford to take expensive risks and fall flat - Nikon will still buy all those FF sensors they make!

09-26-2012, 12:27 PM - 1 Like	#18
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	I think the people on this forum have actually been pretty kind towards Pentax leadership. Honestly, I think they are basically behaving like jerks, in regards to the full frame question. It's pretty simple...give us a real answer. An honest, real answer. "No, we definitely will not be making a full frame camera in the next couple years." They may think it's cute to speak in innuendo and nod and wink, while not really saying anything. They are wrong. Really, what I think they are trying to do, is plant the seed of hope in the people who want full frame. Because they know that, if they do give the real answer, people who want full frame will switch systems. It is a major hassle to switch systems. To the people who say "if you don't like it, just switch..."...that is a major commitment. It would mean, in my case, selling a lot of lenses, most of which I would probably have to sell for a loss. Alternately, I could alter the lenses physically, but I don't want to do that. I don't buy into the "there's no market for a Pentax full frame argument." Industry leaders create markets. Fuji wasn't afraid to create the X100 and X-Pro systems, Ricoh wasn't afraid to create the GXR (not that I would call Ricoh a leader), and Olympus wasn't afraid to create the OM-D. Sometimes you have to take risks to reap rewards. Many of the products that have made waves over the last few years have been bold products. GoPro, BMCC, RX-100, etc. If Pentax is going to continue to take actions based on fear rather than courage, they truly deserve the position they are in. I do realize the Q and the K-01 don't fit into this mentality. I don't know what to make of those two systems. The Q is great, but Pentax obviously doesn't know how to sell it. I don't know who they made the K-01 for. But, hey, the design community really likes it.

09-26-2012, 12:36 PM	#19
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	Originally posted by fuent104 I think the people on this forum have actually been pretty kind towards Pentax leadership. Honestly, I think they are basically behaving like jerks, in regards to the full frame question. It's pretty simple...give us a real answer. An honest, real answer. "No, we definitely will not be making a full frame camera in the next couple years." They may think it's cute to speak in innuendo and nod and wink, while not really saying anything. They are wrong. Really, what I think they are trying to do, is plant the seed of hope in the people who want full frame. Because they know that, if they do give the real answer, people who want full frame will switch systems. It is a major hassle to switch systems. To the people who say "if you don't like it, just switch..."...that is a major commitment. It would mean, in my case, selling a lot of lenses, most of which I would probably have to sell for a loss. Alternately, I could alter the lenses physically, but I don't want to do that. I don't buy into the "there's no market for a Pentax full frame argument." Industry leaders create markets. Fuji wasn't afraid to create the X100 and X-Pro systems, Ricoh wasn't afraid to create the GXR (not that I would call Ricoh a leader), and Olympus wasn't afraid to create the OM-D. Sometimes you have to take risks to reap rewards. Many of the products that have made waves over the last few years have been bold products. GoPro, BMCC, RX-100, etc. If Pentax is going to continue to take actions based on fear rather than courage, they truly deserve the position they are in. I do realize the Q and the K-01 don't fit into this mentality. I don't know what to make of those two systems. The Q is great, but Pentax obviously doesn't know how to sell it. I don't know who they made the K-01 for. But, hey, the design community really likes it. No offence here but exactly what the #&!! are you expecting from a business that has been sold twice in the past 5 years plus had several joint ventures cancelled. (you recall samsung, and also the cooperative lens design with tokina?) if you want a firm answer, there is one that has been out there since day one of the full frame issue. Pentax remains committed to the APS-C format! Just because it is not the answer you want to hear, too bad. get over it END OF RANT Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 10-02-2012 at 08:34 AM.

10-01-2012, 08:21 PM	#20
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by normhead I have to ask, at this point, what are you guys waiting for? I'm waiting for the two years to be over and will then grab my Pentax FF. Meanwhile a K-3 (or K-5 II, if the former does not sufficiently justify its higher price point) will service me just fine.

10-02-2012, 05:37 AM	#21
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by normhead Most of my lenses are Das an FA 50 and DA 35 will do FF, as well as the Tamron 90, but the DA*60-250 is by far my favourite lens and it's not FF compatible. So what are you going to do? The 60-250 is a good lens but really it's Pentax that was playing catch up when it was released; Get a 70-200 (2.8 or 4 in canon, 2.8 in nikon), in an FF body and you'll have more or less replaced the lens. If you're more into telephoto, APSC might just serve you fine though. FF argument is much stronger in the wider and normal end of focal length imho.

10-02-2012, 08:21 AM	#22
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by normhead Exactly.... the *ist was supposed to be FF. Pentax got burned. They obviously have nothing against FF per se. But you have to ask... would FF increase their market share? If they put money and resources into FF they want it back. And there is no saying that the stuff they've developed in APS-c can be used in an FF body. So you're talking bringing out a new product to compete with players that have a huge headstart and have been in the market for years, and have a huge market share. Pentax has to look at where they fit into that. My guess is that no one who isn't prepared to suffer a huge hit to their rep. is going to push for that option. IF the Pentax FF turned out to be a hit, they could be the next CEO, if it failed miserably for whatever reason... they could be running on their sword. You'd need to be a real gambling man. Up to this point, I don't think FF has increased Canon or Nikon's market share except among those that really needed it or wanted it. However, this new wave of "budget" ff bodies may change that paradigm.

10-02-2012, 08:27 AM	#23
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	The argument to avoid answer ff questions could be made during the hostile takeover attempts by Hoya and during Hoya ownership. Now that Ricoh owns the Pentax camera division, they really could give an answer in this regard. Pentax has been messing around with ff for 12 years.