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09-30-2012, 07:38 AM   #1
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A Pentax FF idea, a unique take on the FF market...

A few PF members have talked about a a digital Lx with a ff sensor. Currently, ff camears are a bit largish, but that's due to the rear panel LCD and assorted electronics to support it.

How about forgoing the rear LCD for a hybrid ovf like that seen on the fuji X-1 pro. True, people will not be able to see the photo without looking into the ovf. But that would save weight and thickness of the camera and extend battery life.

A retro looking FF digital LX without a rear LCD aimed towards pentax's heritage and wide assortment of lenses would work quite well. Pentax can even re-release A series lenses to work with the camera. It would have better mf feel then any of the fly by wire focus lenses by fuji and Sony.

This would kinda be a Leica, but a Pentax take on it. Real mf lenses for a high quality, still camera.

How many people would be interested in such a camera?

Pros:
1.) smallish form factor, smaller than d600.
2.) retro styling
3.) Compatible with all k mount lenses, (uncrippled k-mount) (excellent manual focus feel lenses)
4.) massive lens availability/and lens catalog that can be quickly updated and re-released.
5.) excellent mf and af.

cons:
1.) no rear LCD (for image review)(top plate for settings verification?)
2.) might not be comfortable in largish hands...


fuji xf lenses aren't FF compatible, so no threat from them at this time...

Sony has ff compatible lenses at the ready but require an adapter to go from alpha mount to e-mount... Same with Canon.

Just my .02 on what Pentax could do with FF to make it distinct and stand out...

09-30-2012, 07:50 AM   #2
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If only Pentax could create a digitally enhanced optical viewfinder...something like a projected focus-peaking, projected horizon, etc etc.! That would be amazing, and really revolutionary.
And would probably make this compact fullframe idea much better.
09-30-2012, 08:06 AM   #3
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If only Pentax had patent on hibrite viewfinder, wait it has...
09-30-2012, 08:16 AM   #4
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Yes, they do have a patent for that, but never created one

09-30-2012, 08:46 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by GabrielFFontes Quote
Yes, they do have a patent for that, but never created one
Well this even makes it even more possible that they have a patent for a revolutionary viewfinder. Focus peaking would allow precise mf and replace the need for a split prism focus screen. I think Pentax has all the resources, now with Ricoh at the helm, this could really be possible.
09-30-2012, 08:50 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by theperception2008 Quote
A few PF members have talked about a a digital Lx with a ff sensor. Currently, ff camears are a bit largish, but that's due to the rear panel LCD and assorted electronics to support it.

How about forgoing the rear LCD for a hybrid ovf like that seen on the fuji X-1 pro. True, people will not be able to see the photo without looking into the ovf. But that would save weight and thickness of the camera and extend battery life.

A retro looking FF digital LX without a rear LCD aimed towards pentax's heritage and wide assortment of lenses would work quite well. Pentax can even re-release A series lenses to work with the camera. It would have better mf feel then any of the fly by wire focus lenses by fuji and Sony.

This would kinda be a Leica, but a Pentax take on it. Real mf lenses for a high quality, still camera.

How many people would be interested in such a camera?
I don't think these changes will make much difference in size of the camera, it might even make the camera larger as a hybrid TTL VF on a DSLR might get much larger. If not to make OVF darker you probably have use a (moving?) mirror to reflect the EVF image into the pentaprism, and that will make the VF housing larger. And it is not possible to implement a hybrid VF as good on a DSLR as on a mirrorless cameras, as the mirror block the sensor most of the time. So I don't think it will be much advantage of a hybrid VF

IMO Pentax need to make a FF camera that is interesting for as many users possible, otherwise R&D cost will make the camera very expensive as the cost has to be spread on too few units and Pentax might end up in Leica territory. Pentax need to keep R&D cost as low as possible to keep price low, which they probably do best by using traditional design that only need to be upscaled from APS-C to FF.

If the FF camera Pentax release will cost 2-3 times as Nikon/Canon/Sony FF DSLR, more Pentax users than now will jump ship as they probably give up the last hope of a affordable FF DSLR from Pentax.

Why is it only FF DSLR that is much bigger, but not APS-C DSLR if they all use the same LCD?

Edit: I think Pentax can do a small fully featured FF DSLR, but the real unique thing Pentax have is to make compact lenses. Canon and Nikon seems to optimize their FF cameras for large zoom lenses, which make the cameras bigger.

Last edited by Fogel70; 09-30-2012 at 09:03 AM.
09-30-2012, 09:00 AM   #7
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Just a few thoughts.

Retro can be cool - if done correctly. Otherwise you have a body that isn't enjoyable to use.

Too much menu-diving, or controls that are too small or too closely placed, a small dark viewfinder, etc... (Not everyone is young with perfect dexterity and eyesight.) I think the body would need to be large enough to address those key issues in order to be a hit.

Ergonomics will have to be good enough that people will still enjoy using the camera. Styling will only carry sales so far - the "cool factor" fades for many once you realize you don't like using the camera. (Of course this doesn't apply to those who are driven by fashion or style.)

Size-wise, IBIS (SR) may be an issue. Pentax may have to make a decision to offer a body without SR and place the IS into lenses in order to keep the size small. (As I've read here, I guess this is an issue as well with some lenses as the image circle may be a bit too small to allow for the sensor movement associated with SR without vignetting.)

Personally - I'd take a proven design like the K-7/ K-5 form factor, and scale it up (properly) just enough to to fit the sensor and associated bits and pieces, add dual card slots, change to an "uncrippled" mount, and add a make-everyone-envious OVF with proper focusing screen. I think Pentax would have a hit.
09-30-2012, 10:57 AM   #8
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Would you be willing to pay as much as a Leica M for it? Because that's how much it would cost.


Last edited by boriscleto; 09-30-2012 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Spelling
09-30-2012, 11:33 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Would you be willing to pay as much as a Leca M for it? Because that's how much it would cost.
Awesome, those Chinese Leica knockoffs are cheap. Most people don't even notice the missing "i"!
09-30-2012, 11:37 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
Awesome, those Chinese Leica knockoffs are cheap. Most people don't even notice the missing "i"!
Oops. I hate typing on an iPad.
09-30-2012, 12:14 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Why is it only FF DSLR that is much bigger, but not APS-C DSLR if they all use the same LCD?
Just a guess, but larger sensor = more heat = more room needed for heat dissipation. Not to mention the extra processors and memory they tend to throw in them.
09-30-2012, 12:58 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Just a guess, but larger sensor = more heat = more room needed for heat dissipation. Not to mention the extra processors and memory they tend to throw in them.
The Sony RX1 might show that heat, space, processing, & memory is not a problem.
09-30-2012, 01:45 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by theperception2008 Quote
revolutionary viewfinder
Lets not re-invent the wheel, lets just re-use the LX viewfinder.
09-30-2012, 06:02 PM   #14
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You may be right, but how does it perform compared to a full sized FF? Those are meant to be pretty damned fast. Is the Sony?
09-30-2012, 06:17 PM   #15
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Probably the best thing Pentax can do is price the thing higher than a Leica. Maybe then the stuck-ups will go for it, and regular users will have a 'professional' camera to aspire for when they outperform their own camera that just can't cut it for them any more, because it is not good enough.
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