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10-19-2012, 11:49 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I can't believe I spent this amount of time arguing a point with folks who don't seem to understand the nature of a blown highlight. Time to go take some pictures, the dogs are waiting.
We differ in that the highlights were not blown in the face that I showed - it just lacks detail in the cheek area for the D7000, K-5, and K-30 - taking the 100% as-is crops from the site - one can enlarge them - and begin to see some of detail in the 16Mp shots - so this alone shows they are not blown -

Using a photo editor that can show the RBG values - will show even in the cheek area the highest value was around 230 and mostly around 200 this is FAR below the 255 max value - so it is by that definition not blown - just lacks the detail one can see in the 24Mp crops.

I agree - let's just drop this,
since it is no longer on topic -
all I tried to say was to get more detail it may be easier to use a higher res sensor -
whether or not any of the choices are acceptable - does not negate that premise -
the fact that we cannot agree on whether detail can or cannot be seen or a shot is blown or not
- again is not the point -
it is simple maths - 24Mp has 22% more linear resolution than any 16Mp -
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
It is much easier to simply compare MP figures. And 24 is a 22% linear increase over 16.


10-19-2012, 01:00 PM - 1 Like   #92
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OK, just a couple more shots to share

A comparison of the D3200 on the right and K-5 IIs on the left. 1:1 crops so the D3200 image is more magnification.



A comparison of the D3200 and the K-5 IIs image expanded to D3200 size in Pixelmator




As predicted here Do Sensors ?Outresolve? Lenses? there's not much difference between the two but the K5IIs does a much better job on the one white bristle even when blown up. On other details the images are pretty comparable. With a very slight edge to the D3200 but maybe not. But, we're a long way from proving the 24 MP sensor improved IQ more than removing the AA filter. Personally I'm impressed. The original 16 MP image is clearly sharper than the 24 MP image both viewed 1:1, the 24 MP image has defintiely lost sharpness, compared 1:1. And I don't see enough difference to justify addiing an extra 8 MP with each image I take. In fact I don't see any advantage at all to the 24 MP file. IN both the original and enlarged K-5 IIs files, they display better contrast and more punch. Bring on the D600.... just kidding.

I guess with that out of the way , the next question would be, what would the D3200 image look like with no AA filter?

Last edited by normhead; 10-19-2012 at 01:13 PM.
10-19-2012, 02:05 PM   #93
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Wouldn't a better comparison be that of the D3200 image reduced down to the K5IIs scale ?
10-19-2012, 02:46 PM   #94
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Still not as good... the white in the paintbrush has totally disappeared.



10-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #95
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I think you mixed up left-right in your descriptions cause I can only see white on the right side.
10-19-2012, 02:58 PM   #96
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The K-5 IIs is on the right in all images.
10-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #97
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Try the NEX-7 as your APS-C 24MP test comparison - in most of the IR test shots it is MUCH sharper than the D3200. Even looking at the 1600 ISO Comparator image, the NEX-7 kills the D3200. Even though the sensor is said to be the same.
10-19-2012, 03:07 PM   #98
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Here's another shocker... if you crop the D600, so you're matching the K-5 IIs, both at 1:1 ( the equivalent of using the D600 in crop mode.) the K-5 gives you the better image.. again K-5 on the right.



10-19-2012, 03:20 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Still not as good... the white in the paintbrush has totally disappeared.
But was it there in the first place ?

Seriously though, it is interesting that the K5IIs seems to give more luminance detail - as per the brush hair contrast - but about the same chrominance detail.

Just spotted your last example - the K-5 is definitely better, although the focus on the D3200 seems a bit out on this crop.
10-19-2012, 03:31 PM   #100
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Before I pack this in I'll just post the Nex 7 image comparison... I don't think this sensor is going to surpass the K-5 IIs. I don't know what the blue fabric is supposed to look like so I can't say which is a more realistic representation but the floral pattern on the K-5 IIs just pops off the page compared to the Nex -7.

Hey no one is more critcal of findings based on limited data than I am, these are just initial impressions and fraught with peril, buyer beware...

My internet is slow and this is all I could get of the Nex.... and it won't speed up again until every kid in town has gotten off the internet and gone to bed, so I guess that's pretty much it for me today.

10-19-2012, 03:34 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Here's another shocker...
Here would be another shocker: print everything at the same ISO on a 8x10, view it from 50cm away, then try to pick the difference between a D600 (or even D800E) and a K-5 IIs (or even K-x).
10-19-2012, 03:58 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Here would be another shocker: print everything at the same ISO on a 8x10, view it from 50cm away, then try to pick the difference between a D600 (or even D800E) and a K-5 IIs (or even K-x).
Ya, but that one's so obvious no one would even pay for the ink to try it.
10-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #103
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Just on the subject of fine detail, the NEX-7 vs D3200 example at IR I had in mind was this one @ 1600 ISO:

Name:  MEH.jpg
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The NEX-7 24MP certainly looks finer than the D3200 24MP. Somehow Nikon (or IR) made the D3200 look soft.
10-19-2012, 04:07 PM   #104
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The KIIs didn't fare well compared to any sensor when comparing that part of the image.
10-19-2012, 04:23 PM - 1 Like   #105
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Back to the topic :

If you compare the small print bit just below the centre of the circular scale between the plain K5II (right) and the K5IIs (left) there is not only Moire on the K5IIs graduations (between about 80 and 1) but also a bit of unpleasant colour fringing on the 'Bloomfield' etc lettering. And jaggies on the slanting long black graduation lines. At least that's what it looks like in Silkypix DSP5 with default settings.

It doesn't show up all that well on this screencap but those are exactly the artefacts the AA filter is designed to remove.

Edit :

If you look at the RAW files with the ultimate pixelpeeper - Rawanalyze - then the K5IIs image is definitely sharper. And the moire visible on the processed image seems to be largely an artefact of the demosaicing algorithm - these might need tweaking for demosaicing the K5IIs RAWs.


- best viewed in original size

I shall now eat my hat

ISO200 RAWs put through my normal PP routine :
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Last edited by kh1234567890; 10-26-2012 at 08:54 AM.
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