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11-20-2012, 12:29 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Is that in the full image at 100%, or is it just caused by bad jpeg compression?
The square section is a 100% crop. It's there even in the RAW file.


11-21-2012, 10:33 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
One of the problems is that the word sharp is being used to describe two different things. Sharp in terms of the K5 IIs means it's capturing more resolution and therefore more detail. YOu can alter an image with PP to make it look "sharp", but you can't add the lost detail. Once that has been filtered out it's gone. So will you be able to tell the difference? I'm going to say yes... you will, but you're then back to the price thing... is it worth it? I don't know.
Then please show me a comparison.
So far all the comparisons i've seen the S version looks sharper but does not contain any more details that i could see.
11-23-2012, 09:30 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
has anyone tried shooting studio shots of people with the k-5 IIs? i want to see how bad the moire can be if it can beat this one I produced with my K-x...
FWIW, I've also seen this w/ the K20D.
You can still get moire w/ AA filters despite all the hoopla about it when you take the AA filter out. Depends on the frequency of the pattern and density of your photosites...
11-23-2012, 01:52 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
The square section is a 100% crop. It's there even in the RAW file.
I hope you're all aware that this isn't color moiré as is created by a lack of a Bayer-AA filter.

Luminance moiré has different causes and the example shown here points at a weak demosaicing algorithm.

11-23-2012, 07:18 PM   #125
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QuoteQuote:
Luminance moiré has different causes and the example shown here points at a weak demosaicing algorithm.
Darn, just when things were starting to get interesting... now we have to have more than one category of moire... how many are there?

QuoteQuote:
So far all the comparisons i've seen the S version looks sharper but does not contain any more details that i could see.
My feeling was that the added sharpness was in the more accurate rendition of most areas. I'm not sure it's that you see more detail, but it definitely looks sharper. The others look fuzzy by comparison, but for any meaningful comparison, it's not much of a difference. I just thought it was important because I once went to a site where a guy was pushing the superiority of FF, and the images were about the same comparing FF to APS-c with the APS-c being abit fuzzier looking. I just find it fascinating that with a K-5 IIs the roles are reversed. The detail is the same but the K-5 lIs looks sharper. Thing is, to look at it as it is here you'd be looking at a 50" print, and that kind of clarity in a 50" print would be awesome regardless of the camera used. I seriously doubt if you took these prints with equal processing and printed them all @ 50 inches wide, you'd be able to see a difference.


Last edited by normhead; 11-23-2012 at 07:29 PM.
11-24-2012, 12:27 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Thing is, to look at it as it is here you'd be looking at a 50" print, and that kind of clarity in a 50" print would be awesome regardless of the camera used. I seriously doubt if you took these prints with equal processing and printed them all @ 50 inches wide, you'd be able to see a difference.
But with prints the larger the print the further you normally stand away from it, a billboard for exaple have a dpi of 30 and sometimes as low as 10 dpi so why is then my answer.
Also inkt bleeds, which makes me skeptical of the added benefit of the increase of looking sharper?

Yes sure you will see a difference with a high res large print when you stand close but that's not the way to look at the photo.
11-24-2012, 01:15 PM   #127
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In my opinion it isn't worth the extra money. No real difference to the eye in terms of detail rendition but there IS a visible problem with moire as tests have shown.

To Coruscate my dictum: Save that money for a sharper lens instead
11-26-2012, 09:49 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Luminance moiré has different causes and the example shown here points at a weak demosaicing algorithm.
Thanks for the heads-up there.. now there lies the question: would the K-5 IIs also exhibit higher chances of luminance moiré as it does for color?

11-26-2012, 05:27 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Thanks for the heads-up there.. now there lies the question: would the K-5 IIs also exhibit higher chances of luminance moiré as it does for color?
Theoretically, a camera with 100% fill factor micro lenses (such as all recent dSLRs) and a decent demosaicing algorithm should not show signs of luminance moiré without color moiré. If it does then something in the demosaicing sensitivity matrix is off. Or more likely, you are seeing a scaling artefact if not in a 100% view.

Color moiré emerges if the demosaicing algorithm guesses false colors and if these color errors in themselves form a pattern.

If the colors are guessed correctly then there is no reason for luminance errors as they result from known raw luminance and color. And the microlenses prevent raw luminance moiré from a missing AA filter.

Back to your question:

I had quite a few examples of color moiré with my D800E (to many for a fashion shooter actually) but never ever I saw luminance moiré instead of color moiré. However, there may be luminance moiré after applying an anti-moiré tool in a raw converter.

I don't say luminance moiré may not be more frequent without a Bayer-AA filter. But I say that it is a non issue anyway in the presence of the much more frequent color moiré problem.
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