I'm actually astounded K5 IIs-D800e IQ

ihasa · 10-22-2012, 12:27 PM

What this proves is that you downsample the results from a higher res camera to the same as a lower res camera, they look pretty similar.

I'm not really so bothered about resolution - anything over 12mp would be plenty for me. If I was going to buy an FF, I'd go for a D700. Luckily I'm happy enough with APSC.

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 12:32 PM - **3 Likes**

So....if you look at Norms "comparison" pics they look very similar. Know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH K5 IIS SAMPLES. Check out the background behind the bottle. In the real comparison, shown by John, you can see it is slightly different. In Norm's pic they are exactly the same. (Take a look at the little red pattern on the cloth at the bottom of the comparison pic, to the left of "Imported").

Well, that's gotta be embarrassing.

JinDesu · 10-22-2012, 12:33 PM

Please make sure to use the RAW files in all cases. Imaging resources has a terrible tendency to use JPEGs for comparison and to force viewers to find the actual RAW files.

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 12:37 PM

Forget using Raw files, how about actually comparing a D800E shot to a K5iis shot, instead of sneakily comparing the K5 iiS shot with itself to prove the agenda that "the K5iis is just as good as the D800E in terms of resolution."

normhead · 10-22-2012, 12:38 PM

Hmmm, John Bee's images do look clearer than mine, and more like what I expected when I started looking into it...so thanks for that John. I'm really not clear on why your image is so much bigger, you haven't exactly replicated my process or the images would be the same size, but doesn't matter, the point is made.... I trust that you're attempted to replicate the process as accurately as possible.

Quote:

Why is it that there is a clear difference between the K5 and D800 in John's pics but no difference in Norms?

I can see differences in the two pictures I posted, look at the cross hatch on the wine label... the D800 image is marginally better. You need to be more observant. You can see the difference even more on the images John posted, which makes me wonder at the level of magnification he used. Or the level of magnification I used. One of us is off.

So the question I really would like answered would be at what level of magnification does FF start to exhibit an advantage over APS-c. My shots suggest at 30x20 there'd be no difference... Johns would tend to suggest there would slight difference, although we have no way to established that printed at 300 DPI there would be... we need a tie breaker here.

Quote:

Forget using Raw files, how about actually comparing a D800E shot to a K5iis shot, instead of sneakily comparing the K5 iiS shot with itself to prove the agenda that "the K5iis is just as good as the D800E in terms of resolution."

That a pretty bold charge... I guess if you're going to go against the more MP is better, FF is better religion you gotta be prepared to take shots from the unwashed believers.

I'm sorry dude, but in terms of the preference of people for images based on real world viewing, there is no direct link between resolution and IQ, so your criticism as well as being a pointless personal attack on someone else suggests an irrelevant course of action.

I got one thing to say to you after a comment like that "Step out side A** H***. And that's the response it deserves. No wonder no one ever does an real world comparisons around here. They have to put up with clowns like you and allegations like that.

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by normhead

You need to be more observant. You can see the difference

I am observant. Read my posts above where I call you out on not actually using a D800e sample

JohnBee · 10-22-2012, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Hmmm, John Bee's images do look clearer than mine, and more like what I expected when I started looking into it...so thanks for that John. I'm really not clear on why your image is so much bigger, you haven't exactly replicated my process or the images would be the same size, but doesn't matter, the point is made.... I trust that you're attempted to replicate the process as accurately as possible.

I can see differences in the two pictures I posted, look at the cross hatch on the wine label... the D800 image is marginally better. You need to be more observant. You can see the difference even more on the images John posted, which makes me wonder at the level of magnification he used. Or the level of magnification I used. One of us is off.

So the question I really would like answered would be at what level of magnification does FF start to exhibit an advantage over APS-c. My shots suggest at 30x20 there'd be no difference... Johns would tend to suggest there would slight difference, although we have no way to established that printed at 300 DPI there would be... we need a tie breaker here.

Hi norm,

I processed both files(from RAW), upsized them to 9000px wide then posted 1:1 or 100% crops of each sample.

Last edited by JohnBee; 10-22-2012 at 12:57 PM.

normhead · 10-22-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Please make sure to use the RAW files in all cases. Imaging resources has a terrible tendency to use JPEGs for comparison and to force viewers to find the actual RAW files.

I'm not sure that was done, the button I clicked to do my images said "Download full sized images." Looks like they were jpegs...

Quote:

I am observant. Read my posts above where I call you out on not actually using a D800e sample

Read the part above where I tell you I did use a D800e image AH.

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 12:51 PM

Is no one reading my posts where I point out that Normhead has compared the K5iis to itself? The D800 sample is not actually a D800 sample...but the K5 iis sample....

normhead · 10-22-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

I process both files(from RAW), upsized them to 9000px wide then posted 1:1 crops of each sample.

That's what I thought i did... I need to check the files and see if they were jpegs... don't have access to the computer I did the work on right now. I'll attempt the process later to see if I can reproduce your results.

normhead · 10-22-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Is no one reading my posts where I point out that Normhead has compared the K5iis to itself? The D800 sample is not actually a D800 sample...but the K5 iis sample....

Is that in the exif info?

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 01:02 PM

First two are Norm's "comparison" samples. First is the K5 iis, second is the D800e, which I propose is not actually the D800e. The third sample is the actual D800e. You can see the difference in the section I have circled.

UnknownVT · 10-22-2012, 01:05 PM

both up-res'ed/enlarged to 9000px

normhead · 10-22-2012, 01:11 PM

The two images are very different sizes . makes them really hard to compare... why not just bring the K-5 IIs image up to the size of the the other image for comparison? Or is proving someone else might have made a mistake or accusing them of deliberately fudging results) more important than the topic at hand? AH

i83N · 10-22-2012, 01:11 PM

I'm sorry but don't trust imaging-resource. They do bad samples often, just look awful hi-iso shots of Sony RX, other sites did them better.

10-22-2012, 12:38 PM	#20
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Hmmm, John Bee's images do look clearer than mine, and more like what I expected when I started looking into it...so thanks for that John. I'm really not clear on why your image is so much bigger, you haven't exactly replicated my process or the images would be the same size, but doesn't matter, the point is made.... I trust that you're attempted to replicate the process as accurately as possible. Quote: Why is it that there is a clear difference between the K5 and D800 in John's pics but no difference in Norms? I can see differences in the two pictures I posted, look at the cross hatch on the wine label... the D800 image is marginally better. You need to be more observant. You can see the difference even more on the images John posted, which makes me wonder at the level of magnification he used. Or the level of magnification I used. One of us is off. So the question I really would like answered would be at what level of magnification does FF start to exhibit an advantage over APS-c. My shots suggest at 30x20 there'd be no difference... Johns would tend to suggest there would slight difference, although we have no way to established that printed at 300 DPI there would be... we need a tie breaker here. Quote: Forget using Raw files, how about actually comparing a D800E shot to a K5iis shot, instead of sneakily comparing the K5 iiS shot with itself to prove the agenda that "the K5iis is just as good as the D800E in terms of resolution." That a pretty bold charge... I guess if you're going to go against the more MP is better, FF is better religion you gotta be prepared to take shots from the unwashed believers. I'm sorry dude, but in terms of the preference of people for images based on real world viewing, there is no direct link between resolution and IQ, so your criticism as well as being a pointless personal attack on someone else suggests an irrelevant course of action. I got one thing to say to you after a comment like that "Step out side A H. And that's the response it deserves. No wonder no one ever does an real world comparisons around here. They have to put up with clowns like you and allegations like that. Last edited by normhead; 10-22-2012 at 12:47 PM.*

10-22-2012, 01:02 PM	#27
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	First two are Norm's "comparison" samples. First is the K5 iis, second is the D800e, which I propose is not actually the D800e. The third sample is the actual D800e. You can see the difference in the section I have circled. Attached Images

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10-22-2012, 12:27 PM	#16
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	What this proves is that you downsample the results from a higher res camera to the same as a lower res camera, they look pretty similar. I'm not really so bothered about resolution - anything over 12mp would be plenty for me. If I was going to buy an FF, I'd go for a D700. Luckily I'm happy enough with APSC.

10-22-2012, 12:32 PM - 3 Likes	#17
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	So....if you look at Norms "comparison" pics they look very similar. Know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH K5 IIS SAMPLES. Check out the background behind the bottle. In the real comparison, shown by John, you can see it is slightly different. In Norm's pic they are exactly the same. (Take a look at the little red pattern on the cloth at the bottom of the comparison pic, to the left of "Imported"). Well, that's gotta be embarrassing.

10-22-2012, 12:33 PM	#18
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Please make sure to use the RAW files in all cases. Imaging resources has a terrible tendency to use JPEGs for comparison and to force viewers to find the actual RAW files.

10-22-2012, 12:37 PM	#19
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	Forget using Raw files, how about actually comparing a D800E shot to a K5iis shot, instead of sneakily comparing the K5 iiS shot with itself to prove the agenda that "the K5iis is just as good as the D800E in terms of resolution."

10-22-2012, 12:39 PM	#21
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	Originally posted by normhead You need to be more observant. You can see the difference I am observant. Read my posts above where I call you out on not actually using a D800e sample

10-22-2012, 12:48 PM	#22
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by normhead Hmmm, John Bee's images do look clearer than mine, and more like what I expected when I started looking into it...so thanks for that John. I'm really not clear on why your image is so much bigger, you haven't exactly replicated my process or the images would be the same size, but doesn't matter, the point is made.... I trust that you're attempted to replicate the process as accurately as possible. I can see differences in the two pictures I posted, look at the cross hatch on the wine label... the D800 image is marginally better. You need to be more observant. You can see the difference even more on the images John posted, which makes me wonder at the level of magnification he used. Or the level of magnification I used. One of us is off. So the question I really would like answered would be at what level of magnification does FF start to exhibit an advantage over APS-c. My shots suggest at 30x20 there'd be no difference... Johns would tend to suggest there would slight difference, although we have no way to established that printed at 300 DPI there would be... we need a tie breaker here. Hi norm, I processed both files(from RAW), upsized them to 9000px wide then posted 1:1 or 100% crops of each sample. Last edited by JohnBee; 10-22-2012 at 12:57 PM.

10-22-2012, 12:51 PM	#23
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Quote: Please make sure to use the RAW files in all cases. Imaging resources has a terrible tendency to use JPEGs for comparison and to force viewers to find the actual RAW files. I'm not sure that was done, the button I clicked to do my images said "Download full sized images." Looks like they were jpegs... Quote: I am observant. Read my posts above where I call you out on not actually using a D800e sample Read the part above where I tell you I did use a D800e image AH.

10-22-2012, 12:51 PM	#24
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	Is no one reading my posts where I point out that Normhead has compared the K5iis to itself? The D800 sample is not actually a D800 sample...but the K5 iis sample....

10-22-2012, 12:59 PM	#25
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Quote: I process both files(from RAW), upsized them to 9000px wide then posted 1:1 crops of each sample. That's what I thought i did... I need to check the files and see if they were jpegs... don't have access to the computer I did the work on right now. I'll attempt the process later to see if I can reproduce your results.

10-22-2012, 01:00 PM	#26
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	Quote: Is no one reading my posts where I point out that Normhead has compared the K5iis to itself? The D800 sample is not actually a D800 sample...but the K5 iis sample.... Is that in the exif info?

10-22-2012, 01:05 PM	#28
UnknownVT Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,812	both up-res'ed/enlarged to 9000px

10-22-2012, 01:11 PM	#29
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451 Original Poster	The two images are very different sizes . makes them really hard to compare... why not just bring the K-5 IIs image up to the size of the the other image for comparison? Or is proving someone else might have made a mistake or accusing them of deliberately fudging results) more important than the topic at hand? AH

10-22-2012, 01:11 PM	#30
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203	I'm sorry but don't trust imaging-resource. They do bad samples often, just look awful hi-iso shots of Sony RX, other sites did them better.