I'm actually astounded K5 IIs-D800e IQ

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 05:19 PM - **1 Like**

Sure thing. I was just a little insulted by the prior accusations that I was purely trying to undermine his comparison for my own benefit. I found the comparison misleading and I showed my proof. Norm went out of his way to thank other people for what I showed, and I found that a bit rude.

Of course Norm and I have had our disagreements. People have called into question his "comparisons" in the past only to be labeled as blind FF supporters. Comparisons are useful, but only when they are done accurately. It's misleading to post threads like these - look at the first few commenters who blindly accepted Norm's "proof" that the K5-iiS is just as good as the D800E. This is a Pentax forum, and I love my Pentax camera, but come on, it took me a little too much effort to call it out.

I guess my main point is that no one should take one person's evaluation, comparison, review, etc, as definitive proof. Imaging resource was cited, but how do they control for different lenses? There are other forum members here that could contribute their personal experience with both systems (Bossa has stated, on this thread, that there is a difference).

Danny Delcambre · 10-22-2012, 05:31 PM

Adam will review Pentax K-5 II and IIs soon. He will post Pentaxforums on front page. I know K-5 IIs will successfully. Smile

**crewl1** · 10-22-2012, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Arjay Bee

While interested in this discussion I don't think I actually commented!!!

Oops sorry - credit should go to JohnBee.

ironlionzion · 10-22-2012, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Danny Delcambre

Adam will review Pentax K-5 II and IIs soon. He will post Pentaxforums on front page. I know K-5 IIs will successfully. Smile

Definitely. I'm thinking about getting one myself. Lets not kid ourselves - there are cameras out there that beat it in terms of resolution. But those cameras are much more expensive. For the price, the K5 is hard to beat. The ii and iis will only add to that value.

jsherman999 · 10-22-2012, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by ihasa

What this proves is that you downsample the results from a higher res camera to the same as a lower res camera, they look pretty similar.

.

Actually you can see the resolution benefits greatly after simple downsampling as well, especially with higher-ISO images. The 'grain' in higher-res images is finer, which results in higher perceived detail and tends to stand up to NR a bit better, while retaining detail.

I've posted this before in a different part of the forum

reference image:

Top is a deep crop of an ISO 6400 36MP image downsampled to 12MP, below that is a native 12MP crop of the same area:

36MP downsampled to 12MP and cropped, ISO 6400

12MP native, cropped, ISO 6400

Look at the noise above the $10 bill, where the page meets shadow - blotchy in 12MP, fine-grained and almost acceptable in downsampled 36MP. Notice how the crease of the book in that shadow is defined differently. The better, more realistic definition in the noise pattern in the 36MP shot translates directly to a slightly more refined, 'real-looking' image when downsampled or printed. Especially when printed.

I expect some of this benefit to be seen as well with the K5II vs the new 24MP Pentax aps-c flagship. Don't fear the Megapixels!

.

jsherman999 · 10-22-2012, 07:02 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

... I'm hoping this will stand as an example of peer review. One guy posts finding, second guys says, 'you made a mistake". First guy takes abuse from idiot, (but doesn't lie down and take it)..

Except IronLionZion wasn't an idiot, Norm, he was right all along, you were wrong, but worst of all, you simply didn't listen to what he was saying.

If you want to take another lesson from this - listen. Read what others are writing and think about it before you try to type up a response.

I know how this goes, I've been trying to tell you about the merits/demerits of FF for over a year now, and very little of it seems to 'take', we keep coming back to the same assertions over and over again...

.

ElJamoquio · 10-22-2012, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by bossa

I have a K-5 and two D800E and I'd just like to say that there IS a difference.

You've used too much math and direct comparisons. It's only opinion that matters.

ElJamoquio · 10-22-2012, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

Except IronLionZion wasn't an idiot, Norm, he was right all along, you were wrong, but worst of all, you simply didn't listen to what he was saying. .

Insulting someone is how normhead apologizes...?

10-22-2012, 06:51 PM	#65
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by ihasa What this proves is that you downsample the results from a higher res camera to the same as a lower res camera, they look pretty similar. . Actually you can see the resolution benefits greatly after simple downsampling as well, especially with higher-ISO images. The 'grain' in higher-res images is finer, which results in higher perceived detail and tends to stand up to NR a bit better, while retaining detail. I've posted this before in a different part of the forum reference image: Top is a deep crop of an ISO 6400 36MP image downsampled to 12MP, below that is a native 12MP crop of the same area: 36MP downsampled to 12MP and cropped, ISO 6400 12MP native, cropped, ISO 6400 Look at the noise above the $10 bill, where the page meets shadow - blotchy in 12MP, fine-grained and almost acceptable in downsampled 36MP. Notice how the crease of the book in that shadow is defined differently. The better, more realistic definition in the noise pattern in the 36MP shot translates directly to a slightly more refined, 'real-looking' image when downsampled or printed. Especially when printed. I expect some of this benefit to be seen as well with the K5II vs *the new 24MP Pentax aps-c flagship. Don't fear the Megapixels! . Last edited by jsherman999; 10-22-2012 at 07:16 PM.*

10-22-2012, 07:02 PM - 2 Likes	#66
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	lesson 2: listen Originally posted by normhead ... I'm hoping this will stand as an example of peer review. One guy posts finding, second guys says, 'you made a mistake". First guy takes abuse from idiot, (but doesn't lie down and take it).. Except IronLionZion wasn't an idiot, Norm, he was right all along, you were wrong, but worst of all, you simply didn't listen to what he was saying. If you want to take another lesson from this - listen. Read what others are writing and think about it before you try to type up a response. I know how this goes, I've been trying to tell you about the merits/demerits of FF for over a year now, and very little of it seems to 'take', we keep coming back to the same assertions over and over again... . Last edited by jsherman999; 10-22-2012 at 07:11 PM.

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10-22-2012, 05:19 PM - 1 Like	#61
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	Sure thing. I was just a little insulted by the prior accusations that I was purely trying to undermine his comparison for my own benefit. I found the comparison misleading and I showed my proof. Norm went out of his way to thank other people for what I showed, and I found that a bit rude. Of course Norm and I have had our disagreements. People have called into question his "comparisons" in the past only to be labeled as blind FF supporters. Comparisons are useful, but only when they are done accurately. It's misleading to post threads like these - look at the first few commenters who blindly accepted Norm's "proof" that the K5-iiS is just as good as the D800E. This is a Pentax forum, and I love my Pentax camera, but come on, it took me a little too much effort to call it out. I guess my main point is that no one should take one person's evaluation, comparison, review, etc, as definitive proof. Imaging resource was cited, but how do they control for different lenses? There are other forum members here that could contribute their personal experience with both systems (Bossa has stated, on this thread, that there is a difference).

10-22-2012, 05:31 PM	#62
Danny Delcambre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 550	Adam will review Pentax K-5 II and IIs soon. He will post Pentaxforums on front page. I know K-5 IIs will successfully. Smile

10-22-2012, 05:41 PM	#63
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	Originally posted by Arjay Bee While interested in this discussion I don't think I actually commented!!! Oops sorry - credit should go to JohnBee.

10-22-2012, 05:53 PM	#64
ironlionzion Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 409	Originally posted by Danny Delcambre Adam will review Pentax K-5 II and IIs soon. He will post Pentaxforums on front page. I know K-5 IIs will successfully. Smile Definitely. I'm thinking about getting one myself. Lets not kid ourselves - there are cameras out there that beat it in terms of resolution. But those cameras are much more expensive. For the price, the K5 is hard to beat. The ii and iis will only add to that value.

10-22-2012, 07:27 PM	#67
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by bossa I have a K-5 and two D800E and I'd just like to say that there IS a difference. You've used too much math and direct comparisons. It's only opinion that matters.

10-22-2012, 07:29 PM	#68
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by jsherman999 Except IronLionZion wasn't an idiot, Norm, he was right all along, you were wrong, but worst of all, you simply didn't listen to what he was saying. . Insulting someone is how normhead apologizes...?

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