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11-02-2012, 06:58 AM   #46
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I do plan to upgrade to the K-5IIs, but not right away. I'm not into the upgrade at every new camera meme, prefering instead to use a camera for at least three years before replacing it. In any case, other than AF, which of course could be improved, I find the K-5 to be a perfect camera, and am pleased that Pentax decided to keep producing the camera with modest improvements, rather than coming out with something significantly "better." I don't really want a "better" camera, if "better" means tampering with the ergonomics or cramming more megapixels onto the sensor. I shot with a K1000 for twenty years and was plenty satisfied; I wish I could shoot with a K-5 like camera for the next 20 years.

11-02-2012, 08:02 AM   #47
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I have a K5 and K7 and was going to the replace the K7 with the new k5II, I've now decided against that and have just ordered a K30 to replace my K7.

For me there wasn't enough improvement on the K5II or k5IIs, I'm happy with the image quality from my K5 and don't need the low light focussing. As I do a lot of sport and wildlife photography I was hoping for an improvement in AF-C but it looks like I'll have to wait for the K3.
At the moment in the UK the K30 is selling for 369 with 50 cashback so I thought 319 for a baby K5 was too good to miss.
11-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #48
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As a fairly new DSLR user I'm interested to know what more experienced shooters feel the true practical benefits would be of the K5IIs - I mean, what the output would actually allow us to achieve over the alternative?

For example, if I was a salesperson would I be able to honestly say any of the following to a customer asking me about the advantages :

1)
11-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #49
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Sorry, I'll continue here -

With the K5IIs you'll be able to :

1) Reduce the amount of sharpening you do in PP, saving time
2) Increase the amount of sharpening in PP, getting even sharper images without risking artifacts and degradation so much
3) Make bigger prints that still look sharp
4) Your photos generally will have more clarity and definition

Would these claims be valid, and good practical reasons to choose the model?

11-02-2012, 02:20 PM   #50
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I am in the opinion that a better glass will go a lot further for image quality then jumping from k5 to k5IIs. After all, when you make a print, how many people stand with their noses on it looking for details other then another very experienced photographer like yourself?
just an opinion of coarse.
I guess if you already have the best glass then the k5IIs would be a good move for most.

randy
11-02-2012, 03:07 PM   #51
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Yes, I guess so - I am thinking it makes sense to identify clear practical uses for the extra definition out of camera. We can theorise that its 'A Good Thing' in general, but if considering spending money on an upgrade for a model without 'AA' filter you'd want to know what exactly you're going to be using that feature for.

Of course, if upgrading, there's other things to consider - the improved AF etc, depending on what you already have, so its a weighing up game really.
11-02-2012, 03:30 PM   #52
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I upgraded from my K-x to a K-5 because of the better image quality and the improved controls. I don't see the K-5ii/s as enough of an upgrade in these areas to switch.

Furthermore, I don't see myself going to a current FF system. After trying out the d600 in the camera store and reading the manual it doesn't appear to be as functional with my eye on the viewfinder as my trusty K-5.

The way I see it ... At my current abilities, a FF wouldn't improve my shots anyway.
11-02-2012, 04:12 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote

Of course, if upgrading, there's other things to consider - the improved AF etc, depending on what you already have, so its a weighing up game really.
and the other half
she might need something new, too...

11-03-2012, 03:17 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
1) Reduce the amount of sharpening you do in PP, saving time
2) Increase the amount of sharpening in PP, getting even sharper images without risking artifacts and degradation so much
3) Make bigger prints that still look sharp
4) Your photos generally will have more clarity and definition
Sharpness isn't everything
11-03-2012, 08:29 AM   #55
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Exactly - its not! That was the point I was trying to investigate. As the 'salesperson' in the shop that was all I could focus on. Usually when we think of a 'Higher Resolution' from a camera we are thinking about output, both quality and potential size. Would shots from the 's' version K5 allow bigger prints at an equal sharpness, in the same way that extra megapixels would normally allow?
11-03-2012, 08:45 AM - 1 Like   #56
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From this mornings comparison thread. Canon 1Dx, D800, D600 and K5IIs...If you're going to upgrade, your choices are K5IIs and D800, nothing else is really an upgrade, at least in terms of IQ. IN terms of printing, that K-5 IIs is going to look better. HOw much better? Look at the comparisons at Image Resource.



To my eye the K5-IIs is a better image the the D600 or Canon 1D x, and I don't have to buy new lenses.
11-03-2012, 11:42 AM   #57
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OK, yesterday I actually saw a K5IIs. I could have shot with it (the offer was made), I guess that it was a mistake not to (I would have had a SD card with some sample images). I am still trying to decide what is the most reasonable approach to take here. Adam's review indicated that the IIs essentially had the same resolution as the 24MP sensor - however with out the downsides. When I was talking with Ole, he said that the resolution was there (could be seen) and that the colors were better. So, I have been pondering that since last evening.

I probably need to go back and find the thread that touched on this, however in terms of resolution for the APS-c sized sensor, the 16MP is essentially optimal. Any more MPs and you are going past diffraction limit and essentially doing nothing more than oversampling (brings nothing more to the table other than larger files). By removing the AA filter, you are regaining the inherent sharpness of the sensor, essentially adding the lost resolution back with out exceeding the diffraction threshold. Add to that the increased potential color (and the 16 bit A/D, for both the color and detail in the shadows), and for this size of sensor, I think that you have just about maxed out the basics here.

I am VERY happy with my K5, it's a wonderful camera, and since January I have really learned a lot while have taken a number of really good images - images that I am extremely happy with. Images that I could not have taken with my previous K20 - especially night images with low/no noise. Having said that, from a set of comparison shots posted by Adam, I have seen a difference between the K5 and the IIs. I can't quantify it as to 5% or 10% better, but it is there. The additional color is a bonus.So, if the 16MP is the optimal size for the APS-c sized sensor, the alternative for additional resolution is full frame. I did a physical size comparison between the D800e and the K5IIs. The D600 is a bit better (sizewise, but then gives up resolution by using a AA filter), however - I do not see myself hauling around a camera any larger than a K20. Also, I am not interested in starting over. I have my glass, so Pentax is it (it is only a hobby, after all).What I believe it comes down to for me, will the IIs provide me anything. Yes, resolution I can use, and also evening focusing, with better color. That I can use on landscapes as well as cityscapes. The current price is actually pretty good, but $800 to $900 is much better a year from now. I also tend to upgrade at the end of the model cycle (unless Samy's camera wants to sell me a IIs for $750 sometime in the near future?). So, I think that is probably my approach.

11-03-2012, 01:33 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
I hate the fact that Pentax will not give more specifics. I know that this is common practice for most businesses, but you would figure that with so many people jumping ship, they would try something different. I know there is a road map somewhere, but is anyone actually impressed by it? I have no idea what direction Ricoh is taking Pentax. I want to believe that it's taking it into a great direction, but I don't know. The K-5II was such a let down. The more I read these threads, I realize that Pentax is quickly becoming the company of "wink-wink's" that never come.
Life is uncertainty get over it. It is uncertain either or both of us will still be alive in two hours. Above you say the K-5 II is such a let down and below you say you want better AF an ISO, well you got better AF and the ISO is better then any aps-c camera. Do yourself a favor and quit reading these threads, go take some photos.

QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
I love my Kr, but I've outgrown it. I want better AF and better ISO performance. I don't think the K-5II does enough to justify the money. I also don't want to buy a 2 year old camera to last me an indefinite amount of time. If Pentax were to announce that their new high end APS-C DSLR were going to be released in 6 months, or a year, I would be willing to wait. I'd probably even buy a K-5 to hold me over until then
So you want better but you don't want to pay for better, awesome, how's that working out for you? <---rhetorical> Good grief you can buy the original K-5 for ~800 bux now. Until the K-5 II was released this was the best image quality of any aps-c camera 82 on dxo-mark review! The original K-5 is a "high end camera" and available today and a fantastic price!

QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
What I don't want is to wait another year or two so that they can release the new 16 mp K-5III that can now focus with the lens cap on.
So don't, plenty of camera brands to choose from and the grass is totally greener on the other side of the fence.

QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
Are there any chances that Pentax could announce something "worth it" at CP+ 2013? I looked at what they announced this last time and it seems like they only announced lenses.
Yep lens are way overrated who needs em! But seriously I checked your profile and IMO you would gain much more but getting some lens then a new camera.
11-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
To my eye the K5-IIs is a better image the the D600 or Canon 1D x, and I don't have to buy new lenses.
I agree Norm!!! And thank you for doing some actual evaluation work. In fact your post was the only reason I opened this thread.
11-03-2012, 02:41 PM - 1 Like   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Life is uncertainty get over it. It is uncertain either or both of us will still be alive in two hours. Above you say the K-5 II is such a let down and below you say you want better AF an ISO, well you got better AF and the ISO is better then any aps-c camera. Do yourself a favor and quit reading these threads, go take some photos.
Well you certainly took everything I said the wrong way. You're right, we may not be alive in two hours, time to go out and do everything I ever wanted to do in life.

Everything I've read about the camera's new AF system seems to indicate that it's only better in low-light. Everything else makes it sound like it's slightly better (but barely even noticeable) in normal shooting conditions.

Do myself a favor and quit reading these threads? Good advice from the guy with almost 4 times as many posts as I have.


QuoteQuote:
So you want better but you don't want to pay for better, awesome, how's that working out for you? <---rhetorical> Good grief you can buy the original K-5 for ~800 bux now. Until the K-5 II was released this was the best image quality of any aps-c camera 82 on dxo-mark review! The original K-5 is a "high end camera" and available today and a fantastic price!
Who said I don't want to pay for better? You sure like to make a lot of assumptions, that, or you have a serious problem with reading comprehension. I never said anything about not wanting to spend money. I actually stated that I'd like to know what Pentax's plans are before making a purchase (and before you make another incorrect assumption, I know they probably won't be talking). I'd have no problems buying the K-5II if it was a worthy upgrade. My hesitation comes from the reviews that I've been reading about it so far. From everything I've read, it's not a worthy upgrade. Once I'm sure that it is or isn't, that's when I'm buying my camera. It might be a K-5II, it might be a K-5.

You're right, the original K-5 was a great camera... two years ago. Is it still good? Yes. Will it be able to keep up with what other companies are/will be offering soon? A lot of people (also on this forum) seem to think no. Why do people seem to think that it's a ridiculous notion to criticize Pentax for releasing the K-5II as their flagship? Are they even calling it that? Even Adam seems to be greatly disappointed by the K-5II. I've read recommendations that he's made to several people about saving their money and spending their money on something other than the K-5II. A lot of people have been making this recommendation. You should probably go around telling them to go to another brand too.



QuoteQuote:
So don't, plenty of camera brands to choose from and the grass is totally greener on the other side of the fence.
Geez... Thank you gatekeeper of the Pentax world. I will show myself out the door thanks to your masterful use of emoticons.

Once again, I never said I wanted to leave Pentax. Everything I have said has been a criticism of Pentax. As a consumer, I have every right to do this. Any consumer that feels that he, or any other consumer, does not have the right to criticize a company is an idiot. Now, since we've established that you might have some problems with understanding the words I write, I'm not calling you an idiot. I have to admit, I think I've read some other stuff you've written on these forums and you usually come off as a nice person. Not sure what is going on here.


QuoteQuote:
Yep lens are way overrated who needs em! But seriously I checked your profile and IMO you would gain much more but getting some lens then a new camera.
Again, who said I was complaining about them releasing lenses? Are you just trolling me? Or do you really have a problem understanding what you read? I'm mentioning they only announced lenses the during the last CP+. Some other forum members have stated the possibility of another body being announced during the next CP+. I'm trying to get people's opinions as to what the possibilities of that are.

Now, in regards to my lens selection, I actually haven't updated that list since the first month I got my camera. I've actually upgraded my lens collection quite a bit since then. Thanks to some LBA during the last year, I've actually accumulated about 10-15 m42, M, & A prime lenses along with a Tamron 28-75 & a Tamron 70-200. Can I get even better lenses? Of course, will I? Not at this time. Seriously, you need to stop making assumptions.

I love this forum because so many of the people on here are such genuinely nice people. You probably are as well, but wow did you come off like a jerk. I at no point made any of the insinuations you accused me of. You may want to be a little more careful with your reading.

Last edited by reivax; 11-03-2012 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Some words may have been too harsh..
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