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11-13-2012, 04:45 PM   #16
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Agreed. The 1/180th sync speed is the least of my concerns, too.

11-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveHolmes Quote
This down to colour temperature no? The addition of the appropriate filter (CTO etc - fitted to the flash-head) should alleviate any issue of this nature...



Professionals who use strobes understand how flash works and use those strobes in manual mode and generally off-camera...

The only 'real' flash issue I see with the Pentax system is the slower sync-speed in comparison to the competition (and this really is only slightly limiting)... Anything else can be put down to lack of understanding of flash exposure or user error...

Read up on colour temperatures, flash exposure and check out the Pentax Strobist group on flickr...
Which means Pentax DSLRs will only be able to be reliably used by professionals when using a flash. Seems that greatly limits the market. Of course you can use a Nikon or Canon in fully manual flash mode just as well --- except few who use those (particularly Nikon) claim they need to use manual mode to get good shot after good shot. Pentax needs to figure this out.
11-14-2012, 03:03 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveHolmes Quote
This down to colour temperature no? The addition of the appropriate filter (CTO etc - fitted to the flash-head) should alleviate any issue of this nature...



Professionals who use strobes understand how flash works and use those strobes in manual mode and generally off-camera...

The only 'real' flash issue I see with the Pentax system is the slower sync-speed in comparison to the competition (and this really is only slightly limiting)... Anything else can be put down to lack of understanding of flash exposure or user error...

Read up on colour temperatures, flash exposure and check out the Pentax Strobist group on flickr...
So you mean that the fact that the K-30 exposures totally different when used with no ambient light and bounced flash, wether you use live view or not, is because of user error?
Or that it exposures totally different with bounced flash, depending on the presence of ambient light or not?
Please explain why?
And if it´s because of user error, why does the K100D Super handles the above situations, where the K-30 over exposures, without problems?
11-14-2012, 05:45 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy97 Quote
Reason number xx Pentax isn't good enough for professionals who use strobes.
Most professionals I know use strobes manually, in which case, it wouldn't be a problem. No offense intended, just sayin'....

11-14-2012, 05:45 AM   #20
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As what i have learned with my K5&Metz58-2 in PTTL (or HSS-PTTL):

1)normal P-TTL works better than wireless P-TTL
2)use fixed ISO
3)use camera flash exposure correction set to 0 always. Use flash exposure correction in Metz instead
4)M-program mode in K5 with exposure correction set to 0 is good idea
5)do not use ISO values that are much bigger than needed

These do helps a little bit...at least I let myself to BELIEVE
11-14-2012, 05:55 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by 123jippo Quote
As what i have learned with my K5&Metz58-2 in PTTL (or HSS-PTTL):

1)normal P-TTL works better than wireless P-TTL
2)use fixed ISO
3)use camera flash exposure correction set to 0 always. Use flash exposure correction in Metz instead
4)M-program mode in K5 with exposure correction set to 0 is good idea
5)do not use ISO values that are much bigger than needed

These do helps a little bit...at least I let myself to BELIEVE
Since i don´t have a K-5 anymore, can you test the behavior with bounced flash and ambient light on/off, all other settings the same?
Maybe also test with bounced flash, ambient light off, live view on/off?
Settings i used in my test pics was P-TTL, ISO200, 1/40, f5.6, 55mm, distance to object approx. 2m.
11-14-2012, 06:08 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole Quote
Most professionals I know use strobes manually, in which case, it wouldn't be a problem. No offense intended, just sayin'....
That only makes any sense if the photographer only works in carefuly set up situations. like studio work etc. I have been a Pro for nearly 30 years and I use both methods as every pro photographer does unless they specialise in something that permits the time to set up manualy. I often use two or three guns with the nikon using TTL and it works superbly. To enable me to work quickly at weddings I use people as flash bearers lol.
11-14-2012, 06:25 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
That only makes any sense if the photographer only works in carefuly set up situations. like studio work etc.
Yeah, I was actually thinking of guys who do stuff in a studio. Didn't think of the other stuff... It's early & the coffee hasn't hit the brain yet. :-P

11-14-2012, 06:51 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole Quote
Yeah, I was actually thinking of guys who do stuff in a studio. Didn't think of the other stuff... It's early & the coffee hasn't hit the brain yet. :-P
Lol we all do it I have my own full time studio too. I use three big powerful monoblocks in the studio with a triggering device on the camera and of course that is all manual. Outdoors often calls for just a little fill in on camera. It is times like at wedding receptions and christnings etc where you really need good flash exposures. One saving grace for the K5 is how good the sensor is. I have managed to save shots that would not be possable with most cameras. Using the Nikon you just know you can rely on it to give you a good exposure. It is as simple as that realy. The best way I have found with the K5 so far is setting the flash to PTTL HSS and turning off the dynamic range and using it in AV mode. If flash is important though, the best method just has to be using the auto eye that is built into some of the high end guns.
11-14-2012, 07:03 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
...If flash is important though, the best method just has to be using the auto eye that is built into some of the high end guns.
Or Pentax could fix this fault? They should be able to, since it worked fine in older DSLR´s, like the K100D Super.
11-14-2012, 08:12 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lage Quote
Or Pentax could fix this fault? They should be able to, since it worked fine in older DSLR´s, like the K100D Super.
Well yes.... you would think so. I should think it would be poss to do via firmware too. You can be sure Pentax is fully aware of it. I would think they would be working on a solution. Although I have doubts considering they have just released a new version with the same fault.
11-14-2012, 10:14 AM   #27
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Looking at your images, there are only a few which are obnoxiously overexposed, and they're all taken in P-mode.

M is the better mode for flash, but then it looks as though you're aware of that.

When you get overexposure when using flash, have you tried varying the ISO to see whether the exposure changes? If it does, then it means that you're not getting metered flash, just a full blast.

What firmware are you using on the K-5?
11-14-2012, 01:08 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Looking at your images, there are only a few which are obnoxiously overexposed, and they're all taken in P-mode.

M is the better mode for flash, but then it looks as though you're aware of that.

When you get overexposure when using flash, have you tried varying the ISO to see whether the exposure changes? If it does, then it means that you're not getting metered flash, just a full blast.

What firmware are you using on the K-5?
Images are taken with K-30 & K100D Super. All images with external flashes have the same exposure values; 1/40s, f5.6, so that is not the issue. The common thing with the overexposed images is the absence of ambient light and that the flash is bounced. However, if the image is taken in live view mode, it´s exposed more normal.

Look at these three images:

This one is taken with the K-30 and AF-540FGZ in P-TTL mode, flash bounced in the ceiling, ambient light in the room.


The only parameter that changed here is that the ambient light is turned off.


Same parameters as previous picture(no ambient light), but taken in live view mode.

Compared to the K100D Super, the K-30 is inferior:

This one is taken with the K100D Super and AF-540FGZ in P-TTL mode, flash bounced in the ceiling, ambient light in the room.


Same settings as previous image but no ambient light.
11-14-2012, 02:45 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
When you get overexposure when using flash, have you tried varying the ISO to see whether the exposure changes? If it does, then it means that you're not getting metered flash, just a full blast.
Lage's photo collection on Flickr is generally consistent with the problems I experience on my K-5, with the latest firmware (or any firmware, really).

I think top-quark is basically right: with bounced on-camera flash, you get a full blast of flash power regardless of what a correct exposure actually calls for. Sometimes, that means a decent exposure or only modest overexposure -- if you were going to need a lot of flash power anyway (high ceilings, greater distance to subject).

But usually it means a badly blown-out overexposure.

I have tested this fairly extensively. With the flash in-hotshoe and bounced, the flash always emits a loud "pop" consistent with max power, and it takes a while to recharge. If I take the flash off the camera and use wireless P-TTL controlled by the built-in flash (but with the built-in flash set to not contribute to the exposure), there's much less "pop" and the shot is nicely exposed, even when bounced at the same angle.

Exposure values (Shutter, Aperture, ISO) are the same for both shots, so the only difference is flash power.

As far as I can tell there's really no possible explanation other than a firmware bug.
11-14-2012, 03:33 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Lage's photo collection on Flickr is generally consistent with the problems I experience on my K-5, with the latest firmware (or any firmware, really).

I think top-quark is basically right: with bounced on-camera flash, you get a full blast of flash power regardless of what a correct exposure actually calls for. Sometimes, that means a decent exposure or only modest overexposure -- if you were going to need a lot of flash power anyway (high ceilings, greater distance to subject).

But usually it means a badly blown-out overexposure.

I have tested this fairly extensively. With the flash in-hotshoe and bounced, the flash always emits a loud "pop" consistent with max power, and it takes a while to recharge. If I take the flash off the camera and use wireless P-TTL controlled by the built-in flash (but with the built-in flash set to not contribute to the exposure), there's much less "pop" and the shot is nicely exposed, even when bounced at the same angle.

Exposure values (Shutter, Aperture, ISO) are the same for both shots, so the only difference is flash power.

As far as I can tell there's really no possible explanation other than a firmware bug.
Would it be possible for you to test the scenarios in my post above with the K-5? (bounce flash in hot-shoe, ambient light on/off, with/wo live view)
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