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11-17-2012, 05:12 PM   #16
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My thought is that the K-5ii is a stop-gap place holder just to get something new out while Ricoh gets up to speed and a really new "next" camera is developed. I believe the pressure was on to get something out to the public after such a long time since the K-5 came out but Hoya/Pentax just didn't have anything earth shaking in the works. I may be disappointed but have hopes that the real "next gen" flagship camera will be significantly more impressive than an incremental improvement of an existing design.

11-19-2012, 06:05 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by slip Quote
will people buy what is a 3 year product when the other manufactures are coming out with cameras that are a class above?
Define "a class above" ? Pentax has great ergonomics, weather sealing, best in class IQ, tons of specsunique to them or only found on higher-end bodies, a line of fantastic and unique lenses (that make my Nikon colleagues jealous time and again).

QuoteOriginally posted by slip Quote
the APS-C use is on the decrease
I doubt that. And it's the age-old debate that brings photography nowhere.

QuoteOriginally posted by slip Quote
Pentax might have come a long way with the autofocus, but being still behind in that isn't going to convince to many people to convert from their present equipment.
Well, you seem to be idssatisfied with Pentax. Since I'm no fanboy of any company, if I was in your state of mind I would sell my equipment and go purchase another product. As for me, I'm really happy about the gear I own, I think the K-5 II looks like a great product, and I feel I have much to learn still before my equipment really starts to limit me.
11-19-2012, 05:03 PM   #18
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first thing,I never said anything of the sort. This is about pentax in a very competitive market that seems to be coming up with new tech, be it useful or not after 3 years or so.
This is just a healthy discussion on the future of pentax, no more no less. In fact, I am looking forward to getting a K5IIs when I can afford it.
QuoteOriginally posted by bdery Quote
Define "a class above" ? Pentax has great ergonomics, weather sealing, best in class IQ, tons of specs unique to them or only found on higher-end bodies, a line of fantastic and unique lenses (that make my Nikon colleagues jealous time and again).



I doubt that. And it's the age-old debate that brings photography nowhere.



Well, you seem to be idssatisfied with Pentax. Since I'm no fanboy of any company, if I was in your state of mind I would sell my equipment and go purchase another product. As for me, I'm really happy about the gear I own, I think the K-5 II looks like a great product, and I feel I have much to learn still before my equipment really starts to limit me.
11-19-2012, 08:12 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Well it has to make it- once the K-5 stock runs out, the K-5 II will be the new K-5, and its price will start resembling that of its predecessor. In any case, Pentax has a lot of catching up to do with their APS-C flagship, no matter how you look at it!
Agreed. As the "flagship" it's really lagging behind. Something like just replacing 16-inch guns on a battleship with... another 16-inch gun with a more accurate firing computer or something. It's going to have a hard time convincing current K-5 users, even upgraders who're basing on embedded technology in the camera.

11-20-2012, 09:26 AM   #20
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I thought the Pentax interview about the new models made it clear they weren't thinking of luring people into upgrading from the K-5 (they seemed amused at the suggestion that people would do so), but were trying to keep the model current for new buyers by addressing the issues that gave most compaints.
11-20-2012, 09:51 AM   #21
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The direct K-5 competition is Canon 7D, 60D, Nikon D7000 and D300S, none of which have been updated. MILC and FF are different markets. The K-5 II was needed to stop complaints of poor AF in low and artificial light, which have hurt the Pentax reputation. Dropping the AA filter was to create some buzz, like what Fuji got with their X-Trans sensor and Nikon with the D800E. Low K-5 prices and the well-featured, high performing K-30 are hurting sales on the new bodies. The upgraded K-5's are not enough of an improvement for many current K-5 owners. OTOH, there's not much cost to Pentax in putting out a tweaked K-5, so they shouldn't need big sales to turn a profit.

I have a K-20D and K-x. I returned a K-5 due to tungsten light front-focus. I would be happy to upgrade to a K-5 IIS, but I'm holding out for now because I expect a flagship Pentax Ricoh APS-C DSLR announcement in February at CP+.

What's needed more than anything right now is a Pentax entry-level DSLR with K-r handling and upgraded sensor. The K-x and K-r brought in a lot of newbies. Ricoh needs a strong entry in the MILC category.
11-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #22
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Will the 11 and the 11s flop ? Dunno.

I supect that the 11 will not sell well as it seems to be not much more than the K-5.

The 11s ? I'm not sure. Currently I have a K10D, K-m and K-5. They're all great. If I was going to replace any of them, it might be with the 11s. I have seen some photo's taken with it, am impressed...this would be the one that I would go for.
11-20-2012, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #23
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The K5II is the same camera except for tweaked low light autofocus and a new LCD.
The K5IIs has all the above and no AA filter.

As the owner of 2 K5 classics, there is not much incentive for me to get a K5II/IIs.

In my mind, the upgrades to the K5 are in the "10-20%" better range and not really a "new" camera. Pentax took a great camera and tweaked it just a bit more.

If I was a user of anything less than a K5, then I could recommend getting a II/IIs, but there is nothing in it for me.

I was preparing for the FF to come in 2012, and my LBA over the last year took resources for that.

Now that there is a "breather", and a serious discount on the Q, I am recharging and laying low, waiting for the K5 or K3 replacement or whatever.

As for the "new" K5 being a flop? No. A great camera got even better, but for users like me, I won't be buying one.

11-20-2012, 11:20 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The direct K-5 competition is Canon 7D, 60D, Nikon D7000 and D300S, none of which have been updated. MILC and FF are different markets. The K-5 II was needed to stop complaints of poor AF in low and artificial light, which have hurt the Pentax reputation. Dropping the AA filter was to create some buzz, like what Fuji got with their X-Trans sensor and Nikon with the D800E. Low K-5 prices and the well-featured, high performing K-30 are hurting sales on the new bodies. The upgraded K-5's are not enough of an improvement for many current K-5 owners. OTOH, there's not much cost to Pentax in putting out a tweaked K-5, so they shouldn't need big sales to turn a profit.

I have a K-20D and K-x. I returned a K-5 due to tungsten light front-focus. I would be happy to upgrade to a K-5 IIS, but I'm holding out for now because I expect a flagship Pentax Ricoh APS-C DSLR announcement in February at CP+.

What's needed more than anything right now is a Pentax entry-level DSLR with K-r handling and upgraded sensor. The K-x and K-r brought in a lot of newbies. Ricoh needs a strong entry in the MILC category.
Exactly. For all of the talk about the K5 II being a 3 year old camera with some updates, the D7000, 7D and D300S are just as old and have not gotten updates. For Nikon users, the message is clear -- you need to move up to full frame to get attention, but for people who have 1000 dollars as their upper end of spending for a camera body, APS-C is still the way to go.

I still expect a new flagship APS-C in the spring and from the sound of things, full frame at the end of the year, so there are new bodies coming. Still, if I had a K7 or older body, I would probably move up to one of these K5 bodies now, they really are that good.
11-20-2012, 11:22 AM   #25
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I'll be upgrading to a k-5II.
11-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #26
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Do we ever get concrete sales numbers to analyze how a product did? Or is that data closely guarded by the manufacturers?
11-20-2012, 12:01 PM   #27
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Like many others I'm pleased with what the K-5 does well, and have no reason to upgrade to a better APS-C camera. If Pentax had come out with a well-done FF version I'd have ordered it already, if the viewfinder were as good for manual focus as the D600. (Still not as good as my LX... so there is a niche Pentax could go for.)
11-20-2012, 12:10 PM   #28
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I'm getting a K-5 II in prolly 3 weeks, hopefully earlier, and any new model coming in to sit above it may sit well off the list for the next 3 years. True, it may perform ways beyond the K-5 and its children, but I won't be needing that much so much for what I do right now. But I'm pretty sure Ricoh stopped whatever was in the works and just re-issued the K-5 with the gen-1 of SAFOX X as a preview of what might be in store for future Pentax bodies.

As for the lower end... if the K-30 drops further in price, then I guess that's it, no direct K-r replacement anymore.
11-20-2012, 12:25 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
Do we ever get concrete sales numbers to analyze how a product did? Or is that data closely guarded by the manufacturers?
I've never seen details like that. Hoya made some noise about Pentax being profitable (again), and some executives have stated certain lines were successful (Q, K-r), but no real details. Which reminds me, I read somewhere recently that Pentax said the new K-5 bodies were selling beyond expectations. Anyone else hear this, or know where it was said?

Last edited by audiobomber; 11-20-2012 at 09:03 PM.
11-20-2012, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #30
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Well it's worked for me. I bought a K10D in 2007 and have had some happy solid shooting over the years, however it was starting to show its age and finally started playing up between shots (turning off momentarily - enough to miss important shots).

I was very tempted to upgrade in 2010 with the K5 but held off as I justified the fact that I can still take good photos with the K10D when there's enough lighting - so I bought a flash instead, problem solved for the interim.

Whilst this release might not be enough of an update to tempt a current K5 owner into getting a II or IIs, it is enough of a bump in my needs to have warranted the upgrade.

Everyone buys things on different cycles - this time I was due, next release will no doubt tempt the K7 owners out there as well as a good proportion of K5 owners. Me? Well I'd say I'm set with my II's for at least another 4-5 years, quite possibly more given the fantastic build quality and weather proofing on Pentax bodies.

Now to get back out there and start shooting...
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