DxO Mark K-5ii comparison

ZizZ^ · 11-22-2012, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by normhead

No offense but, not for me they don't.

No offense but I doubt you have a clue what Nikon is doing...if they were sitting there wondering how Pentax got the performance they did out of the same sensor they use and how they could exceed it, how would you know?

I dont have to work for Nikon to know they are working on their successors.

And you are probably right...they are bashing their heads on the wall as well to get that same significant leap in 'image performance' from Pentax all Nikon APS-C shooters are waiting for...

ikershaw · 11-22-2012, 05:04 PM

Yeah, I love my 18-135. Does that make me a Pentaxian, a Philistine... or both?

calsan · 11-22-2012, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

uhhhh you do know that the K10D was released and reviewed 4 to 5 years earlier right?

Point being?

David&karen · 11-22-2012, 09:53 PM

Well...we think the 18-135 is great from 18-70, esp when you stop down if you want the entire frame sharp. Photozone did not test that focal length, but in our images 70mm is sharp at f8. We use the longer lengths for the center, but so what? It's wr and with our problems finding a good 16-50 da* it is the best all rounder for all weather. Period. The k5IIs will I think test higher on DXO than what has been talked about, we think 84. Reason? The Nikon D800E does it's magic by neutering it's AA filter with another filter, so it has the same amount of glass in front of the sensor as the regular model. The IIs removes the filter entirely(guess?) so there is less glass in front of the sensor, which should help sharpness, etc. we should start a DXO number pool! Ymmv as usual,

David

photoman1 · 11-23-2012, 06:18 AM

The only thing they have to do now is to update the AF system and improve the SD write speed. ;-)

JinDesu · 11-23-2012, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by photoman1

The only thing they have to do now is to update the AF system and improve the SD write speed. ;-)

That'll be the k-3. As far as I know, they've achieved what they promised for the k-5, and it's more accurate than ever.

frank · 11-23-2012, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by photoman1

The only thing they have to do now is to update the AF system and improve the SD write speed. ;-)

SD card access speed is much faster on K01 and K30, so I guess Pentax already solved this problem. It's just they are too lazy to put this (improvement) inside the new K5II/K5IIs. Actually I think they reused every piece of materials from the 2-year old K5 except a new AF sensor/module. That's why I think they can sell the K5II at $800 and still able to make some profit.

photoman1 · 11-23-2012, 07:45 AM

@ikershaw

That makes you a philistine because the 18-35mm is nowhere near the sharpest lens, it is only a convenience. +1 it is also a kit lens

SMC Pentax-DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC WR Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

Anvh · 11-23-2012, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by calsan

Point being?

The K10D was very good compared to similar cameras off their time and as such the scoring reflects that.
The scoring is not update to this time frame.

So you can not compare a scoring that is done 4 years ago with a camera that is just out.
Same as with comparing reviews off computer processors that are 4 years old with the current generation.

photoman1 · 11-23-2012, 05:30 PM

Why does the K-5 have a better rating than the D7000 if they both use the same sensor?

normhead · 11-23-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Why does the K-5 have a better rating than the D7000 if they both use the same sensor?

It's also about the processing software that produces your DNG or PEG.

Quote:

That makes you a philistine because the 18-135mm is nowhere near the sharpest lens, it is only a convenience. +1 it is also a kit lens

I beg to differ, @ 24mm and f5.6 it has amazing sharpness and excellent border sharpness. Apparenlty the Tamron 17-50 is better, but apart from that I don't think there's another K mount lens that can match it. If you're crying about the sharpness of this lens, I'd sure be interested in knowing what you're comparing it to. At f 5.6 and f8 it has excellent centre sharpness through it's entire range. Even @85mm to 135mm where it's border sharpness is so weak it degrades it's rating it still has excellent centre sharpness. The CA is what you'd expect from a zoom, but sharpness? I don't think so.

See full results here.

ZizZ^ · 11-24-2012, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by photoman1

Why does the K-5 have a better rating than the D7000 if they both use the same sensor?

Pentax did a decent job on the image processing part.

Here are a the 3 Key cameras that has proven that sensors worth from the get go

DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

3 brands with the same (sony) sensor, all small differences in the end result. Basicly any camera with that sensor will provide great image quality.

Alizarine · 11-26-2012, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by frank

It's just they are too lazy to put this (improvement) inside the new K5II/K5IIs. Actually I think they reused every piece of materials from the 2-year old K5 except a new AF sensor/module.

It also makes me think they purposely delayed putting in the new imaging engine that succeeds the 3-year-old PRIME II for more tweaks seeing that Canikon also delayed the next-in-lines to their high-end APS-C lineup... which will make next year's CP+ very exciting!

Won't change my decision on getting a K-5 II though, lol!

photoman1 · 11-27-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by normhead

It's also about the processing software that produces your DNG or PEG.

I beg to differ, @ 24mm and f5.6 it has amazing sharpness and excellent border sharpness. Apparenlty the Tamron 17-50 is better, but apart from that I don't think there's another K mount lens that can match it. If you're crying about the sharpness of this lens, I'd sure be interested in knowing what you're comparing it to. At f 5.6 and f8 it has excellent centre sharpness through it's entire range. Even @85mm to 135mm where it's border sharpness is so weak it degrades it's rating it still has excellent centre sharpness. The CA is what you'd expect from a zoom, but sharpness? I don't think so.

See full results here.

this is good??

normhead · 11-27-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

this is good??

The guy can't interpret his own results. Listen I can't make you go through all the lenses for Pentax to show you how good this lens is at 24 mm, or show you how many lenses that don't have the qualities this lens has are rated higher on this site. I've done it. I couldn't figure out how to tabulate the data to show you how out of line with his own data those comments are. All I can do is say. Read the data.

In the ranges tested 18 samples the lens had excellent center sharpness in 13 and were in the top of very good in the rest. @ 24mm and F5.6 it has excellent edges sharpness as well. In fact you would guess it would be a very good landscape lens from 22-45mm. But you won't know that reading the review. You'd have to look at the numbers, yourself.

The thing is, if you know it's got weak edges in the long end... there are still a lot of picture you can use it for.

Like this it doesn't matter at all that it's not sharp on the edges.

Nor does it on photos like this

There are a lot of circumstances where this is a great lens. If this particular review is anything it's an example of what happens if you lock yourself away in a little room with a test chart and start writing about lenses based on what you see on 2D charts. There's obviously another side to the story, and I have no idea why it becomes my job to explain that. You could have just gone and analysed his own numbers, like I did, then looked at the pictures to see if they are in anyway relevant. His test numbers are good, for 2D test charts. His conclusions are not. As far as I can tell, it was a Monday morning and the guy must have had a hangover when he wrote this review.

DA_18-135 Photos by Norm_Head | Photobucket

11-22-2012, 08:10 PM	#18
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,549	Originally posted by Anvh uhhhh you do know that the K10D was released and reviewed 4 to 5 years earlier right? Point being? Last edited by calsan; 11-22-2012 at 08:47 PM.

11-27-2012, 01:27 PM	#29
photoman1 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 88 Original Poster	Originally posted by normhead It's also about the processing software that produces your DNG or PEG. I beg to differ, @ 24mm and f5.6 it has amazing sharpness and excellent border sharpness. Apparenlty the Tamron 17-50 is better, but apart from that I don't think there's another K mount lens that can match it. If you're crying about the sharpness of this lens, I'd sure be interested in knowing what you're comparing it to. At f 5.6 and f8 it has excellent centre sharpness through it's entire range. Even @85mm to 135mm where it's border sharpness is so weak it degrades it's rating it still has excellent centre sharpness. The CA is what you'd expect from a zoom, but sharpness? I don't think so. See full results here. this is good?? Attached Images

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11-22-2012, 04:48 PM	#16
ZizZ^ Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 152	Originally posted by normhead No offense but, not for me they don't. No offense but I doubt you have a clue what Nikon is doing...if they were sitting there wondering how Pentax got the performance they did out of the same sensor they use and how they could exceed it, how would you know? I dont have to work for Nikon to know they are working on their successors. And you are probably right...they are bashing their heads on the wall as well to get that same significant leap in 'image performance' from Pentax all Nikon APS-C shooters are waiting for...

11-22-2012, 05:04 PM	#17
ikershaw Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 43	Yeah, I love my 18-135. Does that make me a Pentaxian, a Philistine... or both?

11-22-2012, 09:53 PM	#19
David&karen Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 327	Well...we think the 18-135 is great from 18-70, esp when you stop down if you want the entire frame sharp. Photozone did not test that focal length, but in our images 70mm is sharp at f8. We use the longer lengths for the center, but so what? It's wr and with our problems finding a good 16-50 da* it is the best all rounder for all weather. Period. The k5IIs will I think test higher on DXO than what has been talked about, we think 84. Reason? The Nikon D800E does it's magic by neutering it's AA filter with another filter, so it has the same amount of glass in front of the sensor as the regular model. The IIs removes the filter entirely(guess?) so there is less glass in front of the sensor, which should help sharpness, etc. we should start a DXO number pool! Ymmv as usual, David

11-23-2012, 06:18 AM	#20
photoman1 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 88 Original Poster	The only thing they have to do now is to update the AF system and improve the SD write speed. ;-)

11-23-2012, 06:23 AM	#21
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by photoman1 The only thing they have to do now is to update the AF system and improve the SD write speed. ;-) That'll be the k-3. As far as I know, they've achieved what they promised for the k-5, and it's more accurate than ever.

11-23-2012, 06:25 AM	#22
frank Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,202	Originally posted by photoman1 The only thing they have to do now is to update the AF system and improve the SD write speed. ;-) SD card access speed is much faster on K01 and K30, so I guess Pentax already solved this problem. It's just they are too lazy to put this (improvement) inside the new K5II/K5IIs. Actually I think they reused every piece of materials from the 2-year old K5 except a new AF sensor/module. That's why I think they can sell the K5II at $800 and still able to make some profit.

11-23-2012, 07:45 AM	#23
photoman1 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 88 Original Poster	@ikershaw That makes you a philistine because the 18-35mm is nowhere near the sharpest lens, it is only a convenience. +1 it is also a kit lens SMC Pentax-DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC WR Reviews - DA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

11-23-2012, 10:42 AM	#24
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by calsan Point being? The K10D was very good compared to similar cameras off their time and as such the scoring reflects that. The scoring is not update to this time frame. So you can not compare a scoring that is done 4 years ago with a camera that is just out. Same as with comparing reviews off computer processors that are 4 years old with the current generation.

11-23-2012, 05:30 PM	#25
photoman1 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 88 Original Poster	Why does the K-5 have a better rating than the D7000 if they both use the same sensor?

11-23-2012, 06:48 PM	#26
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Quote: Why does the K-5 have a better rating than the D7000 if they both use the same sensor? It's also about the processing software that produces your DNG or PEG. Quote: That makes you a philistine because the 18-135mm is nowhere near the sharpest lens, it is only a convenience. +1 it is also a kit lens I beg to differ, @ 24mm and f5.6 it has amazing sharpness and excellent border sharpness. Apparenlty the Tamron 17-50 is better, but apart from that I don't think there's another K mount lens that can match it. If you're crying about the sharpness of this lens, I'd sure be interested in knowing what you're comparing it to. At f 5.6 and f8 it has excellent centre sharpness through it's entire range. Even @85mm to 135mm where it's border sharpness is so weak it degrades it's rating it still has excellent centre sharpness. The CA is what you'd expect from a zoom, but sharpness? I don't think so. See full results here.

11-24-2012, 02:50 AM	#27
ZizZ^ Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 152	Originally posted by photoman1 Why does the K-5 have a better rating than the D7000 if they both use the same sensor? Pentax did a decent job on the image processing part. Here are a the 3 Key cameras that has proven that sensors worth from the get go DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side 3 brands with the same (sony) sensor, all small differences in the end result. Basicly any camera with that sensor will provide great image quality.

11-26-2012, 10:14 AM	#28
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by frank It's just they are too lazy to put this (improvement) inside the new K5II/K5IIs. Actually I think they reused every piece of materials from the 2-year old K5 except a new AF sensor/module. It also makes me think they purposely delayed putting in the new imaging engine that succeeds the 3-year-old PRIME II for more tweaks seeing that Canikon also delayed the next-in-lines to their high-end APS-C lineup... which will make next year's CP+ very exciting! Won't change my decision on getting a K-5 II though, lol!

11-27-2012, 02:31 PM	#30
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Quote: this is good?? The guy can't interpret his own results. Listen I can't make you go through all the lenses for Pentax to show you how good this lens is at 24 mm, or show you how many lenses that don't have the qualities this lens has are rated higher on this site. I've done it. I couldn't figure out how to tabulate the data to show you how out of line with his own data those comments are. All I can do is say. Read the data. In the ranges tested 18 samples the lens had excellent center sharpness in 13 and were in the top of very good in the rest. @ 24mm and F5.6 it has excellent edges sharpness as well. In fact you would guess it would be a very good landscape lens from 22-45mm. But you won't know that reading the review. You'd have to look at the numbers, yourself. The thing is, if you know it's got weak edges in the long end... there are still a lot of picture you can use it for. Like this it doesn't matter at all that it's not sharp on the edges. Nor does it on photos like this There are a lot of circumstances where this is a great lens. If this particular review is anything it's an example of what happens if you lock yourself away in a little room with a test chart and start writing about lenses based on what you see on 2D charts. There's obviously another side to the story, and I have no idea why it becomes my job to explain that. You could have just gone and analysed his own numbers, like I did, then looked at the pictures to see if they are in anyway relevant. His test numbers are good, for 2D test charts. His conclusions are not. As far as I can tell, it was a Monday morning and the guy must have had a hangover when he wrote this review. DA_18-135 Photos by Norm_Head \| Photobucket