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11-21-2012, 02:59 PM - 1 Like   #1
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DxO Mark K-5ii comparison

Why are the ratings slightly different with the k-5 vs the k-5ii?

DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

11-21-2012, 03:00 PM   #2
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Because Pentax did more magic with the k-5II sensor.
11-21-2012, 03:06 PM   #3
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The differences are marginal. Measurement variations. Just consider the changes in percentage terms - about 1%.

As DxO themselves report:

"with the same sensor as the K-5 Pentax has settled, quite reasonably, for the same performance and have remained in the lead".

I really like the rest of their conclusion too

"The Pentax K-5 II is a remarkable piece of kit, it scores better in the DxO mark tests than several very highly thought of, full frame DSLRs, beating all the cameras made by Canon!"
11-21-2012, 04:21 PM   #4
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I don't trust them. They rate my K7 substantially lower than my K10d and I can tell you for a fact it should be the other way around - the K7 kicks the K10d all over the park if you actually use both cameras.
I place zero stock in their lens reviews also. Two lenses I have that they have tested: 15 limited is rated poor, and just slightly better is the 35 limited - which is total hogwash, as anyone who has used either could attest.

11-21-2012, 04:27 PM   #5
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I think they are providing a valuable service by measuring and reporting, what can be measured, and in a uniform way. Whether that represents the sum total of what should be considered, or even a fraction of it, depends on what you hold to be important.

Although I don't care about the total score that much, I for one, fined the dynamic range vs, iso to be hugely useful and not available elsewhere. (In a meaningful way it tells me what the maximum iso I should use is.)
11-21-2012, 08:00 PM   #6
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I think I've heard somewhere, some quote that "Pentax does not make lenses that perform well in test charts, but rather in capturing real-world images". Maybe just a marketing quote, but it does sound like it has a grain of truth in it.

As for the bodies, K-5 is still a given winner. CaNikonY must be hard-pressed figuring out how to drag it down with their next APS-C bodies, hence the "delay" in the upgrade of the 7D,60D and D300s, D7000
11-22-2012, 12:13 AM   #7
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If we use Nikon 800 vs 800e as a yard stick for K5II vs K5IIs; DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

Expect marginal improvement without the LPF. Maybe 83 overall score for the K5IIs.
11-22-2012, 02:12 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote

As for the bodies, K-5 is still a given winner. CaNikonY must be hard-pressed figuring out how to drag it down with their next APS-C bodies, hence the "delay" in the upgrade of the 7D,60D and D300s, D7000
No offence but Nikon already has the D7000 for several years. It's not like they have to drag anything down but their own D7K since it's already a very awesome DSLR and on par with the K5 in the image quality department.

11-22-2012, 08:50 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by calsan Quote
I don't trust them. They rate my K7 substantially lower than my K10d and I can tell you for a fact it should be the other way around - the K7 kicks the K10d all over the park if you actually use both cameras.
uhhhh you do know that the K10D was released and reviewed 4 to 5 years earlier right?
11-22-2012, 09:08 AM   #10
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I find pentax lenses perform similarly to what photozone has to say. If they say a lens is good, it usually is. I also trust user reviews. I think people can be biased though. Pentaxians seem to love the 18-135, and every single sample image I've seen from it tells me that photozone was right and that it is indeed a rather poor performer. The 12-24 though. Now that's a zoom! It rarely leaves my K-5 and is now my standard walk around with a 28 and 50 in my bag, and maybe a long zoom if I'm doing nature shoots. I scoffed at the 40mm, but I think I might have to get one now. An f2 35mm is probably my next buy. Wish I could afford a 31ltd....

The argument with charts is that you are close focusing and the lens might not be optimized for that. It may perform better at further distances. Some lenses show the entire opposite effect and render distant objects worse even at infinity. Also with reviews come sample images in the real world. Those are usually what I use to ultimately judge a lens. Now that I've totally derailed this topic I want to add that I'm very glad I picked up a k-5 when they were rather inexpensive and it has become my favorite camera by far, greatly exceeding the k-7. I'm so happy to use 1600-3200 without real reservation and it has really given me the ability to hand hold much harder night shots. I didn't think removing the AA filter was going to make the drastic increase in resolution that it did, and you can bet that my next camera will be the k-5 IIs, with the K-5 as a 2nd body, replacing my k-7, which I will never part with. (can they be modified for IR sensitivity?
11-22-2012, 09:11 AM   #11
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Their lens reviews value certain things higher than others, like T-stop. As far as sharpness goes, most of Pentax's lens do ok when compared to Nikon lenses with the D7000. It's just the Tstop that Pentax lenses fail at - which isn't really a big deal to us anyways.
11-22-2012, 09:17 AM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteQuote:
No offence but Nikon already has the D7000 for several years. It's not like they have to drag anything down but their own D7K since it's already a very awesome DSLR and on par with the K5 in the image quality department.
Why is it when people say something controversial they often start with "no offence".

No offense, but the D7000 is rated a couple points lower than the K-5. I would think a rival camera company would want to have something better, not something lower, so as stated in the article, Canon and Nikon have some work to do in matching Pentax's APs-c performance. Canon has some work to do matching the K-5's performance period.

QuoteQuote:
"Pentax does not make lenses that perform well in test charts, but rather in capturing real-world images".
A rough paraphrase from the designer of the 77 ltd. in his notes in the patent documents for that lens, repeated by one of the Pentax reps from EXPOsure, the Henry's Camera photography show.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/107233-jun-hirakawa.html

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2612985

QuoteQuote:
8) lens aberration compensation; priority to practical photographs expression than numerical evaluation.
To expand that into more understandable English..
The lens was designed with the priority in the control of lens aberration compensation weighted towards practical photographic expression rather than the numerical evaluation of the lens. (MTF).

I'd suggest that until the optical engineers on the forum understand what he's talking about, they really don't understand the value of Pentax lenses. In the mind of Jun Hirakawa, designing for MTF and "Practical Photographic expression" are two different things.

Last edited by normhead; 11-22-2012 at 11:39 AM.
11-22-2012, 11:22 AM   #13
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Thank you for posting the link to the quote, normhead!
11-22-2012, 04:02 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Why is it when people say something controversial they often start with "no offence".

No offense, but the D7000 is rated a couple points lower than the K-5. I would think a rival camera company would want to have something better, not something lower, so as stated in the article, Canon and Nikon have some work to do in matching Pentax's APs-c performance. Canon has some work to do matching the K-5's performance period.
No offence but the couple of points in "dxo mark" you are talking about are negligible and everybody with a little sense instead of being a fanboy will vouch for that. And trust me, i shot with both cameras for some time now. The difference in practice is non existing.

Image quality is not the issue here. Neither for pentax nor nikon. And any succesor for both brands will eventually use the same 'sony sencor' anyway with perhaps your score difference in DXO by one or 2...who cares sir?

Pentax has to catch up with autofocus and their flashsystem as well as support and availabilty for example, where nikon does an excellent job.

Nobody is perfect. But no, Nikon is in no way sitting there wondering how to beat pentax "APS-C image performance" by a point in DXO mark. They are preparing a worthy succesor for their own.

PS: I start with "no offence" out of politeness and perhaps Caution in the first place

Last edited by ZizZ^; 11-22-2012 at 04:12 PM.
11-22-2012, 04:30 PM   #15
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QuoteQuote:
Pentax has to catch up with autofocus and their flashsystem as well as support and availabilty for example, where nikon does an excellent job.
No offense but, not for me they don't.

QuoteQuote:
Nobody is perfect. But no, Nikon is in no way sitting there wondering how to beat pentax "APS-C image performance" by a point in DXO mark. They are preparing a worthy succesor for their own.
No offense but I doubt you have a clue what Nikon is doing...if they were sitting there wondering how Pentax got the performance they did out of the same sensor they use and how they could exceed it, how would you know?
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