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11-22-2012, 10:45 PM - 1 Like   #1
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If Oly can do an OM-D, why not a K1000D?

Features:

K1000 body rebuild.
Full frame sensor.
Full autofocus capability.
Top manual shutter speed wheel.
Top exposure compensation wheel.
Typical modern rear controls with nice big LCD.

and most importantly...

Fully uncripped mount allowing full use of all legacy lenses.

It's doable...is there enough of a retro market out there?

Hmmm.......

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11-22-2012, 11:06 PM   #2
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It's hard to say.

As great as it would look, I would be torn.

On one hand I would love the look and simplicity of a re-made K1000
On the other I would be wary of losing the modern ergonomics etc of the current crop.



I think it would end up in a sort of no-mans land of cameras.

Not serious enough to fit in with the "pro/prosumer" crowd.
Not pro looking enough to fit in with the "I want to look like a pro... but I'm not" crowd.
Too complex for the "happy snapshot of the kids" crowd.
and not legitimately retro enough for the retro crowd (who tend to just use film anyway)


But, I haven't bought a new camera in years, so I'm probably completely wrong.
11-22-2012, 11:09 PM   #3
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Nice mockup! I think we're getting to the stage where the camera makers are finally able to fit all that goodness in that kind of frame at a reasonably affordable price. I think it would be a big hit. Something like the Fuji XE-1 with a great full-frame sensor (or APS-C), image stabilization, weather-sealing and a billion old Pentax lenses to mount on it. It wouldn't be a replacement for a DSLR, just another option.
11-22-2012, 11:13 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sol Invictus Quote
Nice mockup! I think we're getting to the stage where the camera makers are finally able to fit all that goodness in that kind of frame at a reasonably affordable price. I think it would be a big hit. Something like the Fuji XE-1 with a great full-frame sensor (or APS-C), image stabilization, weather-sealing and a billion old Pentax lenses to mount on it. It wouldn't be a replacement for a DSLR, just another option.

The size would be useful. Even better if they could make it as bulletproof as the old film cams.

My last holiday I took the SP1000 purely because it's smaller and more resistant to abuse than my digital SLR (it was safer being crushed into an overhead locker by a stewardess)

11-22-2012, 11:57 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by KHatfull Quote
It's doable...is there enough of a retro market out there?
Yes, it is big enough market for those prepared to pay Leica M price.
11-23-2012, 12:13 AM - 1 Like   #6
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As much as I would like to see such a thing (actually, I want an ME Super-D), the short answer is the OM-D is micro 4/3rds with a smaller sensor, [no in-body image stabilization], and a shorter register distance. While it's roughly the size of the original OM, it isn't preserving the OM's mount, body, or sensor size. The register distance on MFT is a whopping 26.75mm shorter than the OM mount, which frees up a lot of volume.

If you look at the cutaways of the K-5 and K-30, the shutter, APS-C sensor (with shake reduction gear) and LCD are over 3/4" thick - that's a LOT more stuff behind the shutter than in a K1000. Even if you discard Shake Reduction, a FF sensor and LCD would still be quite a bit thicker than the film and back on the K1000. In order to preserve the register distance of the K-mount, the body would have to be thicker and/or bulged out the back (or else the mount and mirror box would have to be bulged out the front - either way, it can't fit in a K1000 body as-is). Trying to fit the AF gear in the bottom of the mirror box would be tricky, too, especially when there has to be a larger area clear in front of the FF sensor. You're going to end up with something chunkier than a K1000, and probably heavier.

Correction: the OM-D does have in-body IS, but it's for a sensor about a quarter the size of a FF. The key thing is the register distance of only 19.25mm, compared to the K-mount's 45.46mm. The OM-D's entire body can fit between a K1000's lens mount and sensor (film), with room left over.

Last edited by THoog; 11-23-2012 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Mis-read OM-D specs regarding IS. Hey, it was late.
11-23-2012, 10:20 AM   #7
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A lot of us old film-shooters have suggested such a camera, and that's why I spent the money on a Leica M9 - it's the only digital that I can use EXACTLY like my film models. I got a K-5, largely to use with my collection of Pentax-M manual lenses, only to find that manual focus on a K-5 is dismal, as the "finder" is designed for composing, not focusing.
I just had a chance to try a Nikon D600 with some 1970-era Nikon manual lenses. I must admit, the D600 works MUCH better with their old lenses than the K-5 does with the Pentax-M lenses. Nikon still has the mechanical linkage to the lens aperture, and the finder and screen are great for manual focus. It's still too big, and controls are all designed around auto-focus and menus, but it works very well for just shooting in aperture-preferred mode like an LX or ME. Maybe it's time to jump ship.
11-23-2012, 06:57 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by hks_kansei Quote
It's hard to say.

As great as it would look, I would be torn.

On one hand I would love the look and simplicity of a re-made K1000
On the other I would be wary of losing the modern ergonomics etc of the current crop.



I think it would end up in a sort of no-mans land of cameras.

Not serious enough to fit in with the "pro/prosumer" crowd.
Not pro looking enough to fit in with the "I want to look like a pro... but I'm not" crowd.
Too complex for the "happy snapshot of the kids" crowd.
and not legitimately retro enough for the retro crowd (who tend to just use film anyway)


But, I haven't bought a new camera in years, so I'm probably completely wrong.
Maybe stuff it into an LX or K2 body then.

11-23-2012, 07:37 PM   #9
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I don't think it's a question of size as much as styling and controls. If we gotta have a bump, well, I guess we get a bump. But I don't think there's anything more iconic in Pentax than the K1000 is there?
11-23-2012, 07:57 PM   #10
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The point about the body thickness is correct - but eliminate the IS and autofocus and you minimize the thickness increase. The Leica M9 is at most 1/4" thicker than the film M models, takes all the same lenses, same flange/sensor registration distance - and it still adds an LCD on the back (which I could do without, with old-style controls for ISO). The M9 doesn't have IS, and with good technique you don't need it (never had it on film).
Eliminate all the fluff, give us metering, shutter speed, manual focus, and aperture rings on the lens and it's really a "pro" camera. Even eliminate the motorized shutter cocking and give me a thumb lever - it's quieter anyway and gives a thumb rest.
But... fluff and gadgets sell.
11-23-2012, 08:07 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by KHatfull Quote
I don't think it's a question of size as much as styling and controls. If we gotta have a bump, well, I guess we get a bump. But I don't think there's anything more iconic in Pentax than the K1000 is there?
The 'AP'
11-23-2012, 08:08 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by KHatfull Quote
I don't think it's a question of size as much as styling and controls. If we gotta have a bump, well, I guess we get a bump. But I don't think there's anything more iconic in Pentax than the K1000 is there?

http://www.thecamerasite.net/01_SLR_Cameras/Images/Spotmatic.jpg?iact=hc&vpx...,r:0,s:0,i:101
11-23-2012, 09:36 PM   #13
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It is a question of size if so much volume is required that it looks like a chunky caricature of the K1000. It wouldn't be a little bump - half the back would sticking out at least a centimeter (~3/8 inch). That's assuming (wrongly) that a full-frame sensor could be squeezed into something the size of a K-01, which is 1cm thicker than a K1000 (and the K-01 is frequently condemned for being too thick). Actually, looking at the OM-D, which has about 22mm of stuff behind the focal plane, Pentax did surprisingly well on the K-01.

The Leica was mentioned - it has the advantage that the film body already had a fairly large space (~1cm) behind the film plane, thanks again to a short register distance. The K1000 is only 49mm thick - take out the 45.46mm in front of the film, and there's only 3.5mm to work with.

To look at actual FF dSLRs, Nikon's "small" FF, the D600, is roughly the same width as a K1000, but 2cm taller, and the narrow parts of the body are about twice as thick as on a K1000. The Canon 5D is about the same, maybe a little bigger. I think it's safe to assume that neither Canon nor Nikon left huge empty spaces in their bodies, so at least twice the volume of a K1000 body is needed. Even if Pentax pulled a miracle of compression, the whole body would need to be at least 50% thicker. It's also going to be heavy, with no grip to speak of - this is turning into an enlarged K-01. Style only goes so far (and in the case of the yellow brick, not that far).
11-24-2012, 12:34 AM   #14
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The real caviar would be not a camera at all, but a replacement back. But, that would then be limited to cameras with enough electronics to be able, as a minimum, put the meter active and shutter release into the back , then just simply use your old body.

Not sure what cameras it could be used on, but I would love to see a ff digital back for my PZ1
11-24-2012, 01:52 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by KHatfull Quote
I don't think it's a question of size as much as styling and controls. If we gotta have a bump, well, I guess we get a bump. But I don't think there's anything more iconic in Pentax than the K1000 is there?
The controls of a manual mode only camera do not work well for a fully automated digital camera.

IMO Pentax current controls if just far superior to the old styling with a dedicated shutter speed dial and aperture ring. As the the two wheels used today change functions depending on what mode used the controls are better optimized for controlling the camera with the right hand and without taking your eye from OVF, or moving you finger from shutter button. With the left hand you hold/control the lens.

With retro control most of Pentax smart functions like green button, Hyper-Program, Hyper-Manual will no longer be available.

Sure retro styling might be cool, but I think Pentax already did that enough with the design on K7/K5. If the grip was removed from K5 it would look very much like a SLR from the 70s. But without a grip there will not be enough space for a battery.
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