Why no SR support for teleconverters?

Matjazz · 02-12-2008, 04:25 AM

A simple firmware tweak should do it.

Just recently I bought K100D Super and got more familiar with SR and SR menu where one inputs focal length of older lenses be it with or without TC. So far so good. The problem arises when one wants to use TC on a newer lens as SR uses focal length from lens regardless of the TC in between. You can't even use DA primes with TC since SR menu is inaccessible (gray)

Is it really so hard to change the SR menu so that rather than being unavailable with newer lenses it would have 1x, 1,4x, 1,7x and 2x options for teleconverters?

It seems that the solution is there and the effort Pentax would have to put in is negligible. I mean one could use a $5 hot shoe to PC sinc adapter yet they added PC sinc. Was there no user feedback regarding lack of TC/SR compatibility? Are there some technical problems I'm unaware of or is Pentax planning to make profit of SR compatible teleconverters?

palmor · 02-12-2008, 04:53 AM

There was actually a ton of threads about this just after all the SR bodies were released but Pentax never did anything about it

distudio · 02-12-2008, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Matjazz

Was there no user feedback regarding lack of TC/SR compatibility? Are there some technical problems I'm unaware of or is Pentax planning to make profit of SR compatible teleconverters?

There was feedback referring to this issue in the forums that I frequent but I guess that since Pentax haven't made officially made a TC since 2005 that they decided not to provide any work-around. The fact that finally a new TC in on the road-map should answer your last question.

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-12-2008, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Matjazz

A simple firmware tweak should do it.

Just recently I bought K100D Super and got more familiar with SR and SR menu where one inputs focal length of older lenses be it with or without TC. So far so good. The problem arises when one wants to use TC on a newer lens as SR uses focal length from lens regardless of the TC in between. You can't even use DA primes with TC since SR menu is inaccessible (gray)

Is it really so hard to change the SR menu so that rather than being unavailable with newer lenses it would have 1x, 1,4x, 1,7x and 2x options for teleconverters?

It seems that the solution is there and the effort Pentax would have to put in is negligible. I mean one could use a $5 hot shoe to PC sinc adapter yet they added PC sinc. Was there no user feedback regarding lack of TC/SR compatibility? Are there some technical problems I'm unaware of or is Pentax planning to make profit of SR compatible teleconverters?

I have made a ton of complaints to pentax regarding this issue, to the point where they do not respond back to me.

You should go on their web site and enter a problem report. the more who do so, and advise them that this is a product defect the better

Matjazz · 02-12-2008, 07:06 AM

And what were their answers before they have put you on ignore list?

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-12-2008, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Matjazz

And what were their answers before they have put you on ignore list?

They would "forward this to their R&D group"

When repeated requests went in, and I asked what was the status, as I felt this was a product defect, the response was generally that it was not up to product support to address this and that the R&D group was responsible for deciding what issues were addressed.

Matjazz · 02-12-2008, 04:28 PM

Where did you file your complaints?

Confused · 02-13-2008, 12:52 PM

Hi Lowell

So are you implying that none of the other DSLR manufacturers produce a TC that enables SR to continue functioning with a lens attached ? I was seriously thinking about obtaining a 1.4x TC, but if SR was disabled by the insertion of this device I don't think I'd actually bother !

Best regards
Richard

jeffkrol · 02-13-2008, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by palmor

There was actually a ton of threads about this just after all the SR bodies were released but Pentax never did anything about it

Sure they did, their designing a new teleconverter (which you may eventually be able to BUY)
which will probably solve this problem....just you wait.... again

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-13-2008, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Matjazz

Where did you file your complaints?

Log on to the pentax site, and go through the support menu to contact pentax.

Originally posted by Confused

Hi Lowell

So are you implying that none of the other DSLR manufacturers produce a TC that enables SR to continue functioning with a lens attached ? I was seriously thinking about obtaining a 1.4x TC, but if SR was disabled by the insertion of this device I don't think I'd actually bother !

Best regards
Richard

It is not a question of anything other than the interface through the TC. There is nop specification for it, with respect to focal length reporting. Also this might impact the apature setting and lens control. I am not sure yet. the issue with TCs did not really need to be addressed until SR came out.

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Sure they did, their designing a new teleconverter (which you may eventually be able to BUY)
which will probably solve this problem....just you wait.... again

Don't bet on it. The TC might have a chip in it that takes the focal length and modifies it but that does not address the thousands of users who won't want to go our and get new TCs just to have that. Look at me, I have sigma 1.4 and 2 X TCs. are they going to be obsoleted just because pentax refuses to make a simple function work. I will not spend hundreds for this, I expect them to fix a problem they should have long known existed.

Matjazz · 02-14-2008, 07:27 AM

To deny us a simple solution just to sell new equipment is so unlike Pentax. Or is this the evil plan of new management?

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-14-2008, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by Matjazz

To deny us a simple solution just to sell new equipment is so unlike Pentax. Or is this the evil plan of new management?

The issue has been around since before the new management.

If you want the solution, and this goes for all ideas you have for software only log onto pentax and send them the issue, well defined, and the request or proposed change.

For this issue, I suggested a start up menu, like the one for manual lenses and focal lengths, with a prompt for teleconverter and a default for a 1x ratio, with options for 1.4, 1.5, 1.7 and 2 since these are the most popular ratios.

eurostar · 02-14-2008, 07:45 AM

Is this problem present also with the Pentax 1,7x AF adapter? I am asking because that converter aknowledge the change in aperture, so I wonder if does the same with focal lenght...

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-14-2008, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

Is this problem present also with the Pentax 1,7x AF adapter? I am asking because that converter aknowledge the change in aperture, so I wonder if does the same with focal lenght...

can't you see this in your EXIF data?

I only use this on MF lenses and specifically K and KA mount, where no focal length info is available, Focal length is transmitted via the 7th contact, along with other information used by the AF system.

Additionally, since the real issue is one only with shake reduction, I am not sure it was thought about when the 1.7x AF TC was developed in the late 80's or early 90's. I bought mine in 1991! so this is actually a very old adaptor.

jeffkrol · 02-14-2008, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

can't you see this in your EXIF data?

I only use this on MF lenses and specifically K and KA mount, where no focal length info is available, Focal length is transmitted via the 7th contact, along with other information used by the AF system.

Additionally, since the real issue is one only with shake reduction, I am not sure it was thought about when the 1.7x AF TC was developed in the late 80's or early 90's. I bought mine in 1991! so this is actually a very old adaptor.

Regardless of if TC's were thought about or not, a "manual override" of SR in order to put in any focal length you desire for any reason, logical or not, is still a big oversight by Pentax. There's a point when dumbing down to protect us just gets insulting. MAYBE the solution is not so simple as we think. Doesn't help that communication has become one way..................
I still hold in the "conspiracy theory" that Pentax, over time, has been trying to ween us away from "legacy" glass... in baby steps. I suppose you could say it started w/ the crippled K mount. Then they tried NOT supporting manual lenses in the D. The recoil was too much and, surprise, an expedient software patch that solved the problem. Then w/ K10 you have the "green button" hassle (which looks to continue into the K20. BTW: Is the brightness different really worth the hassle?) and the exposure problems... TC hassles w/ SR ect.
.

Now maybe it's just natural evolution but I'm not so sure..............

02-12-2008, 04:25 AM	#1
Matjazz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: EU/Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 774	Why no SR support for teleconverters? A simple firmware tweak should do it. Just recently I bought K100D Super and got more familiar with SR and SR menu where one inputs focal length of older lenses be it with or without TC. So far so good. The problem arises when one wants to use TC on a newer lens as SR uses focal length from lens regardless of the TC in between. You can't even use DA primes with TC since SR menu is inaccessible (gray) Is it really so hard to change the SR menu so that rather than being unavailable with newer lenses it would have 1x, 1,4x, 1,7x and 2x options for teleconverters? It seems that the solution is there and the effort Pentax would have to put in is negligible. I mean one could use a $5 hot shoe to PC sinc adapter yet they added PC sinc. Was there no user feedback regarding lack of TC/SR compatibility? Are there some technical problems I'm unaware of or is Pentax planning to make profit of SR compatible teleconverters?

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02-12-2008, 04:53 AM	#2
palmor Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Boston, MA Posts: 798	There was actually a ton of threads about this just after all the SR bodies were released but Pentax never did anything about it

02-12-2008, 04:56 AM	#3
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by Matjazz Was there no user feedback regarding lack of TC/SR compatibility? Are there some technical problems I'm unaware of or is Pentax planning to make profit of SR compatible teleconverters? There was feedback referring to this issue in the forums that I frequent but I guess that since Pentax haven't made officially made a TC since 2005 that they decided not to provide any work-around. The fact that finally a new TC in on the road-map should answer your last question.

02-12-2008, 05:39 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Matjazz A simple firmware tweak should do it. Just recently I bought K100D Super and got more familiar with SR and SR menu where one inputs focal length of older lenses be it with or without TC. So far so good. The problem arises when one wants to use TC on a newer lens as SR uses focal length from lens regardless of the TC in between. You can't even use DA primes with TC since SR menu is inaccessible (gray) Is it really so hard to change the SR menu so that rather than being unavailable with newer lenses it would have 1x, 1,4x, 1,7x and 2x options for teleconverters? It seems that the solution is there and the effort Pentax would have to put in is negligible. I mean one could use a $5 hot shoe to PC sinc adapter yet they added PC sinc. Was there no user feedback regarding lack of TC/SR compatibility? Are there some technical problems I'm unaware of or is Pentax planning to make profit of SR compatible teleconverters? I have made a ton of complaints to pentax regarding this issue, to the point where they do not respond back to me. You should go on their web site and enter a problem report. the more who do so, and advise them that this is a product defect the better

02-12-2008, 07:06 AM	#5
Matjazz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: EU/Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 774 Original Poster	And what were their answers before they have put you on ignore list?

02-12-2008, 07:18 AM	#6
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Matjazz And what were their answers before they have put you on ignore list? They would "forward this to their R&D group" When repeated requests went in, and I asked what was the status, as I felt this was a product defect, the response was generally that it was not up to product support to address this and that the R&D group was responsible for deciding what issues were addressed.

02-12-2008, 04:28 PM	#7
Matjazz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: EU/Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 774 Original Poster	Where did you file your complaints?

02-13-2008, 12:52 PM	#8
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067	Hi Lowell So are you implying that none of the other DSLR manufacturers produce a TC that enables SR to continue functioning with a lens attached ? I was seriously thinking about obtaining a 1.4x TC, but if SR was disabled by the insertion of this device I don't think I'd actually bother ! Best regards Richard

02-13-2008, 01:08 PM	#9
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by palmor There was actually a ton of threads about this just after all the SR bodies were released but Pentax never did anything about it Sure they did, their designing a new teleconverter (which you may eventually be able to BUY) which will probably solve this problem....just you wait.... again

02-13-2008, 02:01 PM	#10
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Matjazz Where did you file your complaints? Log on to the pentax site, and go through the support menu to contact pentax. Originally posted by Confused Hi Lowell So are you implying that none of the other DSLR manufacturers produce a TC that enables SR to continue functioning with a lens attached ? I was seriously thinking about obtaining a 1.4x TC, but if SR was disabled by the insertion of this device I don't think I'd actually bother ! Best regards Richard It is not a question of anything other than the interface through the TC. There is nop specification for it, with respect to focal length reporting. Also this might impact the apature setting and lens control. I am not sure yet. the issue with TCs did not really need to be addressed until SR came out. Originally posted by jeffkrol Sure they did, their designing a new teleconverter (which you may eventually be able to BUY) which will probably solve this problem....just you wait.... again Don't bet on it. The TC might have a chip in it that takes the focal length and modifies it but that does not address the thousands of users who won't want to go our and get new TCs just to have that. Look at me, I have sigma 1.4 and 2 X TCs. are they going to be obsoleted just because pentax refuses to make a simple function work. I will not spend hundreds for this, I expect them to fix a problem they should have long known existed.

02-14-2008, 07:27 AM	#11
Matjazz Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: EU/Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 774 Original Poster	To deny us a simple solution just to sell new equipment is so unlike Pentax. Or is this the evil plan of new management?

02-14-2008, 07:41 AM	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Matjazz To deny us a simple solution just to sell new equipment is so unlike Pentax. Or is this the evil plan of new management? The issue has been around since before the new management. If you want the solution, and this goes for all ideas you have for software only log onto pentax and send them the issue, well defined, and the request or proposed change. For this issue, I suggested a start up menu, like the one for manual lenses and focal lengths, with a prompt for teleconverter and a default for a 1x ratio, with options for 1.4, 1.5, 1.7 and 2 since these are the most popular ratios.

02-14-2008, 07:45 AM	#13
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Is this problem present also with the Pentax 1,7x AF adapter? I am asking because that converter aknowledge the change in aperture, so I wonder if does the same with focal lenght...

02-14-2008, 08:03 AM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by eurostar Is this problem present also with the Pentax 1,7x AF adapter? I am asking because that converter aknowledge the change in aperture, so I wonder if does the same with focal lenght... can't you see this in your EXIF data? I only use this on MF lenses and specifically K and KA mount, where no focal length info is available, Focal length is transmitted via the 7th contact, along with other information used by the AF system. Additionally, since the real issue is one only with shake reduction, I am not sure it was thought about when the 1.7x AF TC was developed in the late 80's or early 90's. I bought mine in 1991! so this is actually a very old adaptor.

02-14-2008, 08:21 AM	#15
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge can't you see this in your EXIF data? I only use this on MF lenses and specifically K and KA mount, where no focal length info is available, Focal length is transmitted via the 7th contact, along with other information used by the AF system. Additionally, since the real issue is one only with shake reduction, I am not sure it was thought about when the 1.7x AF TC was developed in the late 80's or early 90's. I bought mine in 1991! so this is actually a very old adaptor. Regardless of if TC's were thought about or not, a "manual override" of SR in order to put in any focal length you desire for any reason, logical or not, is still a big oversight by Pentax. There's a point when dumbing down to protect us just gets insulting. MAYBE the solution is not so simple as we think. Doesn't help that communication has become one way.................. I still hold in the "conspiracy theory" that Pentax, over time, has been trying to ween us away from "legacy" glass... in baby steps. I suppose you could say it started w/ the crippled K mount. Then they tried NOT supporting manual lenses in the D. The recoil was too much and, surprise, an expedient software patch that solved the problem. Then w/ K10 you have the "green button" hassle (which looks to continue into the K20. BTW: Is the brightness different really worth the hassle?) and the exposure problems... TC hassles w/ SR ect. . Now maybe it's just natural evolution but I'm not so sure..............