New Leica M8 Full-Frame announced at PMA !

Confused · 02-13-2008, 12:31 PM

Hi PentaxPoke

Re your observation about the Leica M8:

Quote:

How can a camera with such limitations be worth $5k

I can't answer that, but value is a 'relative' concept. If you were a multi-billionaire, $5k probably wouldn't even register on your radar ! There are clearly many individuals who relish the sheer engineering craftsmanship of a Leica and their matching lenses, in the same way that some afficionados pay what you personally might consider excessive amounts for a hand-made Purdy Shotgun or a solid gold Rolex Chronometer Watch. But this wasn't my point. If C***n, N***n, S**y and now L***a are all due to attend the full-frame ball, are Pentax going to be the party-poopers or not ? All of a sudden, the heat just got turned up a notch.........

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 02-13-2008 at 01:34 PM.

mattdm · 02-13-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

Rumors tell that the FF sensor will also be offered as an upgrade for existing M8 users.

Yes, but if it's anything like the LCD screen and shutter upgrade they're currently offering, you'll be able to buy two K20Ds for the price of one upgrade, sooo.....

Maxington · 02-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

Yes, but if it's anything like the LCD screen and shutter upgrade they're currently offering, you'll be able to buy two K20Ds for the price of one upgrade, sooo.....

And at least the K20D's can take photos of black pants without them turning purple

I can see the appeal in a digital rangefinder, but I cannot for the life of me see the appeal in a flawed horribly expensive luxury rangefinder.

d.bradley · 02-13-2008, 05:31 PM

i think the point some people are trying to make is that Leica's m8's aren't in serious competition with pentax...so the fact that they are in the FF forey won't be of much concern. How many people go into a store thinking K100D super and leave with an m8? I bet someone did it once, and I wish I had been there to witness it it :P

Confused · 02-13-2008, 05:53 PM

Hi all

The point I am simply trying to make is that regardless of whether the design is SLR or rangefinder, it would seem that full-frame digital sensors appear to be arriving on the market in ever increasing numbers, so precisely where does Pentax fit into this latest equation ?

Best regards
Richard

**LeoTaylor** · 02-13-2008, 06:36 PM

The Full Frame subject keeps coming back. In my very limited opinion, for Pentax to come out with a Full Frame sensor now would require they admit they have, "painted themselves into a corner." All those "Digital only" lenses won't fully illuminate a FF sensor. No longer could they advertise their DSLRs, "Support every lens we ever made." Some day I'll buy a roll of film and mount the Kit Lens on my K1000 and see how bad it vignettes.

c.r.brown · 02-13-2008, 06:59 PM

Most Leica users are wide angle shooters, it would therefore seem to be a no brainer that Leica would/should offer a FF version to make the most use of the Leica wide angle lenses.

Confused · 02-13-2008, 07:00 PM

Hi Leo

Re your comment:

Quote:

All those "Digital only" lenses won't fully illuminate a FF sensor.

.....thus explaining precisely the reason why I decided to temporarily restrict myself to buying just the Tamron 18-250mm Di II & Sigma 10-20mm lenses, until the murky waters clear a little to reveal whether Pentax have serious intentions in the full-frame format arena !

Best regards
Richard

carpents · 02-13-2008, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

I have never understood the obsession some people have for Leica cameras. How can a camera with such limitations be worth $5k and more?

Short answer - because people will pay $5k for it.

Long answer - Leica has a long history (some of it inflated by mythology) of building durable, hand-crafted, unique instruments. It is like asking why a Rolex is worth $5,000 when you can buy a Timex for $50. They both tell the time and fit on your wrist. But they are not the same animal.

carpents · 02-13-2008, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

Now imagine that there would be an FF upgrade option to the K10D/K20D ...

I have three words for your idea:
Totally Kick Ass.

Maxington · 02-13-2008, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by carpents

Short answer - because people will pay $5k for it.

Long answer - Leica has a long history (some of it inflated by mythology) of building durable, hand-crafted, unique instruments. It is like asking why a Rolex is worth $5,000 when you can buy a Timex for $50. They both tell the time and fit on your wrist. But they are not the same animal.

Except the Rolex randomly lost time unless you clipped a special cover on it, compared to the $50 Timex which did exactly as promised.

BrendanPK · 02-13-2008, 09:02 PM

NOT TRUE!!!
I met with Leica, they discused the point of having a FF at some point in time, but not now.
Currently they have enough problems with edge quality on their APS-H (1.3-x factor) chip (also some other tech issues too)
They are upgrading the M8 though, read here: PMA 07 Live: Sneak Peek - ThePhotoStation.net (i need to fix the text, it somehow is cut off, its the last in the line from sneak peek)
-b

distudio · 02-14-2008, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by Confused

I'm certain there must be many long-suffering Pentax film enthusiasts out there who are patiently waiting for an opportunity to use their superb wide-angle lenses on a Pentax Full-Frame DSLR body WITHOUT having to worry about the unavoidable 1.5 x Focal Length Magnification Factor which an APS-C sensor forces upon them.

And some long-suffering Pentax film enthusiasts have lost patience and are selling their superb Pentax and Leica M cameras and lenses so that they can afford a Nikon. ;-)

DJey · 02-14-2008, 05:35 AM

same here.. what does FF have that APS-C sensors? beside the use of old manual lenses..

distudio · 02-14-2008, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by DJey

same here.. what does FF have that APS-C sensors? beside the use of old manual lenses..

For the same resolution and similar age of technologies generally lower noise and wider latitude.

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02-13-2008, 12:31 PM	#16
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067 Original Poster	Hi PentaxPoke Re your observation about the Leica M8: Quote: How can a camera with such limitations be worth $5k I can't answer that, but value is a 'relative' concept. If you were a multi-billionaire, $5k probably wouldn't even register on your radar ! There are clearly many individuals who relish the sheer engineering craftsmanship of a Leica and their matching lenses, in the same way that some afficionados pay what you personally might consider excessive amounts for a hand-made Purdy Shotgun or a solid gold Rolex Chronometer Watch. But this wasn't my point. If C*n, Nn, Sy and now L*a are all due to attend the full-frame ball, are Pentax going to be the party-poopers or not ? All of a sudden, the heat just got turned up a notch......... Best regards Richard Last edited by Confused; 02-13-2008 at 01:34 PM.*

02-13-2008, 12:36 PM	#17
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,964	Originally posted by falconeye Rumors tell that the FF sensor will also be offered as an upgrade for existing M8 users. Yes, but if it's anything like the LCD screen and shutter upgrade they're currently offering, you'll be able to buy two K20Ds for the price of one upgrade, sooo.....

02-13-2008, 04:00 PM	#18
Maxington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 255	Originally posted by mattdm Yes, but if it's anything like the LCD screen and shutter upgrade they're currently offering, you'll be able to buy two K20Ds for the price of one upgrade, sooo..... And at least the K20D's can take photos of black pants without them turning purple I can see the appeal in a digital rangefinder, but I cannot for the life of me see the appeal in a flawed horribly expensive luxury rangefinder.

02-13-2008, 05:31 PM	#19
d.bradley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 630	i think the point some people are trying to make is that Leica's m8's aren't in serious competition with pentax...so the fact that they are in the FF forey won't be of much concern. How many people go into a store thinking K100D super and leave with an m8? I bet someone did it once, and I wish I had been there to witness it it :P

02-13-2008, 05:53 PM	#20
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067 Original Poster	Hi all The point I am simply trying to make is that regardless of whether the design is SLR or rangefinder, it would seem that full-frame digital sensors appear to be arriving on the market in ever increasing numbers, so precisely where does Pentax fit into this latest equation ? Best regards Richard

02-13-2008, 06:36 PM	#21
LeoTaylor Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Connecticut Photos: Gallery Posts: 679	The Full Frame subject keeps coming back. In my very limited opinion, for Pentax to come out with a Full Frame sensor now would require they admit they have, "painted themselves into a corner." All those "Digital only" lenses won't fully illuminate a FF sensor. No longer could they advertise their DSLRs, "Support every lens we ever made." Some day I'll buy a roll of film and mount the Kit Lens on my K1000 and see how bad it vignettes.

02-13-2008, 06:59 PM	#22
c.r.brown Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 214	Most Leica users are wide angle shooters, it would therefore seem to be a no brainer that Leica would/should offer a FF version to make the most use of the Leica wide angle lenses.

02-13-2008, 07:00 PM	#23
Confused Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: London Posts: 1,067 Original Poster	Hi Leo Re your comment: Quote: All those "Digital only" lenses won't fully illuminate a FF sensor. .....thus explaining precisely the reason why I decided to temporarily restrict myself to buying just the Tamron 18-250mm Di II & Sigma 10-20mm lenses, until the murky waters clear a little to reveal whether Pentax have serious intentions in the full-frame format arena ! Best regards Richard

02-13-2008, 08:01 PM	#24
carpents Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Chester, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,420	Originally posted by PentaxPoke I have never understood the obsession some people have for Leica cameras. How can a camera with such limitations be worth $5k and more? Short answer - because people will pay $5k for it. Long answer - Leica has a long history (some of it inflated by mythology) of building durable, hand-crafted, unique instruments. It is like asking why a Rolex is worth $5,000 when you can buy a Timex for $50. They both tell the time and fit on your wrist. But they are not the same animal.

02-13-2008, 08:02 PM	#25
carpents Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Chester, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,420	Originally posted by falconeye Now imagine that there would be an FF upgrade option to the K10D/K20D ... I have three words for your idea: Totally Kick Ass.

02-13-2008, 08:55 PM	#26
Maxington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 255	Originally posted by carpents Short answer - because people will pay $5k for it. Long answer - Leica has a long history (some of it inflated by mythology) of building durable, hand-crafted, unique instruments. It is like asking why a Rolex is worth $5,000 when you can buy a Timex for $50. They both tell the time and fit on your wrist. But they are not the same animal. Except the Rolex randomly lost time unless you clipped a special cover on it, compared to the $50 Timex which did exactly as promised.

02-13-2008, 09:02 PM	#27
BrendanPK Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 736	NOT TRUE!!! I met with Leica, they discused the point of having a FF at some point in time, but not now. Currently they have enough problems with edge quality on their APS-H (1.3-x factor) chip (also some other tech issues too) They are upgrading the M8 though, read here: PMA 07 Live: Sneak Peek - ThePhotoStation.net (i need to fix the text, it somehow is cut off, its the last in the line from sneak peek) -b

02-14-2008, 04:52 AM	#28
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 448	Originally posted by Confused I'm certain there must be many long-suffering Pentax film enthusiasts out there who are patiently waiting for an opportunity to use their superb wide-angle lenses on a Pentax Full-Frame DSLR body WITHOUT having to worry about the unavoidable 1.5 x Focal Length Magnification Factor which an APS-C sensor forces upon them. And some long-suffering Pentax film enthusiasts have lost patience and are selling their superb Pentax and Leica M cameras and lenses so that they can afford a Nikon. ;-)

02-14-2008, 05:35 AM	#29
DJey Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Philippines Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 286	same here.. what does FF have that APS-C sensors? beside the use of old manual lenses..

02-14-2008, 05:46 AM	#30
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 448	Originally posted by DJey same here.. what does FF have that APS-C sensors? beside the use of old manual lenses.. For the same resolution and similar age of technologies generally lower noise and wider latitude.