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02-15-2008, 09:54 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
Actually this is NOT so.
The WB set affects the RAW!
This has been proven in a long thread on dpreview, where the gurus (GordonBGood etc.) analysed the RAW "histograms".
Depending on the WB set the histograms look different. It's not much, but it is noticable.
E.g. when you have tungsten light, the red color is noticably shifted.

Digg, digg, digg ...

... here's the link:
RAW vs White balance [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
Huh. I hadn't seen that. But...but...but...that doesn't even make sense, does it? White balance just "scales" each pixel value based on the spectrum of available light, right? You ought to be able to set the reference point all day long and scale it any way you want with no loss of information. Am I missing something?

02-15-2008, 11:39 AM   #17
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This is what Gordon wrote:

=================
The effect of this WB preset is to slightly reduce the gain of the "strongest" channel for that extreme WB so as to avoid clipping, but that has ***no effect*** on the resulting images if the proper scale factors are obtained from the raw data file and properly applied. Thus, there ***is*** an advantage to shooting (including raw) with a WB preset that is close to correct, especially in the case of very "reddish" WB situations such as Tungsten in order to help avoid channel clipping.
=================
02-15-2008, 11:58 AM   #18
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sorry but to continue the original question

i guess the Colour Tone (bright vs natural) ... don't affect RAWs either?
so when i load up the RAW in lightroom, does it read all the parameters i set and process it to the contrast, saturation, etc that i selected?
02-15-2008, 12:02 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
This is what Gordon wrote:

=================
The effect of this WB preset is to slightly reduce the gain of the "strongest" channel for that extreme WB so as to avoid clipping, but that has ***no effect*** on the resulting images if the proper scale factors are obtained from the raw data file and properly applied. Thus, there ***is*** an advantage to shooting (including raw) with a WB preset that is close to correct, especially in the case of very "reddish" WB situations such as Tungsten in order to help avoid channel clipping.
=================
I suppose that does make sense if you are out at the edges of the recordable dynamic range, because there is a lot less "wiggle room" for scaling the values of each channel. Thanks for that. I do run into problems with channel clipping under tungsten light, especially in red or yellow rooms. I'll give this a shot and see if it makes a difference.

02-15-2008, 02:39 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
Actually this is NOT so. <snip>
So true - a while back a bunch of us argued this point regarding shooting IR images with the Hoya R72 filter attached. and in that (extreme) instance it was very noticeable the difference when post processing a custom white balanced image and one taken with a "standard" WB setting.
02-18-2008, 08:54 AM   #21
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RAW and White Balance

In my experience, WB setting is important even when shooting RAW. True, if the difference in WB is minor, like between sunny and cloudy day settings, then you can get to the correct WB with RAW WB adjustments. However, I learned from shooting in IR that if I don't do a custom WB setting fo IR, there is no way I can get all the red out of the IR shots withRAW adjustments. So I advise to get the WB right in the camera even when shooting RAW.

With respect to RAW editors, I have been using PhotoShop Elements 5, but recently added ACDSee Pro2 to my arsenal. I like it's RAW editor better than PSE5s. I now use PSE5 almost exclusively for layering only and do most other editing in ACDSee.
Steve
02-21-2008, 03:11 PM   #22
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Thanks for all your input. The K10D is an excellent DSLR. There is no doubt that there is allot of tinkering around. But you know? So is a 35mm film camera. Settings are important, but they are also to your preference. Everyones eye is different. There is no right or wrong. Wrong becomes right after time, and right doesn't necessarily mean right in others eyes. Photography! What an escape of freedom.

The eye can be tricked, but the trick is in the eyes of the holder.

Thanks everyone!

EAD Studios
02-21-2008, 05:27 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
This is what Gordon wrote:

=================
The effect of this WB preset is to slightly reduce the gain of the "strongest" channel for that extreme WB so as to avoid clipping, but that has ***no effect*** on the resulting images if the proper scale factors are obtained from the raw data file and properly applied. Thus, there ***is*** an advantage to shooting (including raw) with a WB preset that is close to correct, especially in the case of very "reddish" WB situations such as Tungsten in order to help avoid channel clipping.
=================
Pretty sure this was changed in the k10 at least. That whole thread was confusing
K10 does not "change" RAW at all in regards to WB.....
I think we now understand that Pentax DSLR's prior to the K10D modified their relative channel gains for different WB presets, including custom WB, in order to help avoid channel clipping.

Re: RAW vs White balance: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

02-22-2008, 09:29 AM   #24
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Your settings are stored in the file, most raw processors like Adobe Camera RAW don't make use of them. However, Pentax's own software might. Most camera companies software tends to make sure of more of the small things.

For example if you shoot raw in black and white mode you get a color raw image because the raw data is color data. However, if you use for example Canon's or Nikon's software you will see the black and white. It reads that metadata tag and does the conversion for you.

I don't use the Pentax software because I don't like it so I don't know if this is the case and you don't mention in your OP what software you are using.

Robert
02-23-2008, 09:34 AM   #25
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It will only save post processing later if the software you use makes use of that data. Most don't. Most just ignore it. If I have to make a choice of good raw processng software or having these things recognized and using the poor Pentax software then I will go with good raw processing software.

I know Adobe doesn't use it because for most cameras the information is encrypted. I don't know if Pentax does this or not. I would imagine that they don't because they support DNG. However, I see no real use for supporting these kinds of things. No matter what you are going to have to do some post processing anyways, nearly all images need at least a little something no matter how right you got it at the time you took the shot.

Robert
02-24-2008, 08:06 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Robert Barnett Quote
It will only save post processing later if the software you use makes use of that data. Most don't. Most just ignore it. If I have to make a choice of good raw processng software or having these things recognized and using the poor Pentax software then I will go with good raw processing software.

I know Adobe doesn't use it because for most cameras the information is encrypted. I don't know if Pentax does this or not. I would imagine that they don't because they support DNG. However, I see no real use for supporting these kinds of things. No matter what you are going to have to do some post processing anyways, nearly all images need at least a little something no matter how right you got it at the time you took the shot.

Robert
thanks for the help Robert
08-17-2008, 08:14 AM   #27
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All I have to say is that this discussion was very helpful. Thank you for everyones input. Now I know.

EAD Studios
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