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12-12-2012, 01:21 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I expect an announcement at CP+; 24mp flagship APS-C, no AA filter, PDAF & CDAF improvements and focus peaking. That's my camera.
that is the camera I'm also waiting for. I'd also like a good video implementation. That would be my dream camera that would suit my DA limiteds very nicely.

12-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Billium28 Quote
Im a K-x owner and until recently have not had the cash to buy into a higher end camera. I have been on the fence for almost 9 months on the K-5 - K5ii/s idea but the more I wait the more I'd love to see what the next APS-C camera is. I know the Full framer when it comes, and it will, will be a huge jump in brand satisfaction but it seems the only camera people talk about is the FF.

Should I jump on the K5 now or does anyone have any early rumors on the next APS-C?
I am in the same boat. I wonder if someone with experience using K-X, K-5, and K-5ii could compare the AF on a scale from 1-100 to know whether it is worth the price to move from the K-X to a new camera. I believe the K-X, K-R, and K-30 all have very similar AF systems. I was thinking about selling the K-X and spending a few hundred extra to get a used K-5.
12-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
+ better AF tracking..
This. I'd like to see similar focus point arrangement than in D300 :



With similar center focus point as K-5II/IIs and the cross-type sensors in the same places as K-5's. Even though I may not need that good. Then I will never complain
12-12-2012, 02:44 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I wonder if someone with experience using K-X, K-5, and K-5ii could compare the AF on a scale from 1-100 to know whether it is worth the price to move from the K-X to a new camera. I believe the K-X, K-R, and K-30 all have very similar AF systems. I was thinking about selling the K-X and spending a few hundred extra to get a used K-5.
This is a whole entire thread and probably should be moved.

I disagree strongly with your conclusion that the AF on the K-x, K-r and K-30 are the same, unless you are talking about AF in decent, natural light. When things get tough, they perform differently. I own a K-x and K20D and returned a K-5 for wonky tungsten light AF. I also read two Pentax boards daily, and here is my ranking of the bodies you are considering, from poor to best AF:
K-r (way to many complaints of misfocus in low and/or tungsten lighting)
K-5 (better but same issues)
K-x (not brilliant but serviceable)
K-30 (better than all the above for artificial light)
K-5 II (best Pentax evah, solves the low and artificial light issues)

12-12-2012, 03:04 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
This is a whole entire thread and probably should be moved.

I disagree strongly with your conclusion that the AF on the K-x, K-r and K-30 are the same, unless you are talking about AF in decent, natural light. When things get tough, they perform differently. I own a K-x and K20D and returned a K-5 for wonky tungsten light AF. I also read two Pentax boards daily, and here is my ranking of the bodies you are considering, from poor to best AF:
K-r (way to many complaints of misfocus in low and/or tungsten lighting)
K-5 (better but same issues)
K-x (not brilliant but serviceable)
K-30 (better than all the above for artificial light)
K-5 II (best Pentax evah, solves the low and artificial light issues)
Sorry if this is a tangent to this thread and I don't really mean to hijack the thread, I was hoping it would be a simpler answer. Is the tungsten lighting issue an issue with the temperature of the light or the actual incandescent vs. florescent light source? I have no intention of using this for studio photography or anything like that and all of the lights in my house (main concern for artificial/low light environment) are CFL (3000K) or LED. My main problem with the K-X is that the trust issue related to the lack of AF points in the view finder, I limit the usability of it to center point AF. A secondary problem is the lack of IR AF assist light. I am sure the extra AF points and better quality of those points probably makes a nice difference too.

I am not in the mood to spend almost $1000 for an upgrade but the net difference between K-X and K-5 is tempting.
12-12-2012, 03:28 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Sorry if this is a tangent to this thread and I don't really mean to hijack the thread, I was hoping it would be a simpler answer. Is the tungsten lighting issue an issue with the temperature of the light or the actual incandescent vs. florescent light source? I have no intention of using this for studio photography or anything like that and all of the lights in my house (main concern for artificial/low light environment) are CFL (3000K) or LED. My main problem with the K-X is that the trust issue related to the lack of AF points in the view finder, I limit the usability of it to center point AF. A secondary problem is the lack of IR AF assist light. I am sure the extra AF points and better quality of those points probably makes a nice difference too.

I am not in the mood to spend almost $1000 for an upgrade but the net difference between K-X and K-5 is tempting.
I use center point & recompose almost exclusively with all my cameras, so focus points are not a factor for me. As far as I know, K-r, K-30, K-5 share the same AF points. The only differences I'm aware of are that the K-x doesn't show which point is in use, and the K-5 II and IIS have an f/2.8-sensitive center point.

The K-5 II and IIS are the best for PDAF. The K-30 beats the K-x in every possible way. Although some say the K-5 does too, the K-5 II review on this site says, plain as day, "The Pentax K-5 was observed to have AF accuracy problems (front and back focus) when shooting in tunsgten light. The Pentax K-5 II does not have this issue." My K-5 just had severe front-focus in tungsten light, good AF in daylight.
12-12-2012, 03:45 PM   #22
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IJust bought a second K-5 (two shooters in the family... it got to a point I couldn't refuse. Tungsten light is so small an issue for me I don't even know what it is. I shoot almost all outdoors in daylight. My K-5 will focus in such low light I see details in the images I didn't know were there, so that's not an issue for me either. So I have to ask audiobomber, where do you encounter tungsten light?

As a landscape photographer for the most part, none of the issues that people go on and on about ever seems to bite me. I suspect I wouldn't get noticeably different images using any Canon camera , or any Nikon apart from a D800. I look at all the negative postings you see and all the things people want, and I think , "I hope they don't do that." I don't wan to pay 2 cents for movie capability. I can't justify paying for state of the art autofocus. To increase IQ I'm thinking of getting some manual focus lenses, all I want from auto-focus is that it works when I need it. The best lenses abvailable for Pentax's right now according to DxO are Samyangs, and none of them are autofocus. And it does. You can get the auto focus from a D3100 in a D3100, why does that need to be in a Pentax?

For my purposes, 18 month old technology at $500 off is the way to go. And I'm buying a Tamron 17-50- 2.8 with the savings. I will improve more images buying that lens and make more difference to my photography than buying a KII or "s" would.
12-12-2012, 04:38 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Tungsten light is so small an issue for me I don't even know what it is. I shoot almost all outdoors in daylight. My K-5 will focus in such low light I see details in the images I didn't know were there, so that's not an issue for me either. So I have to ask audiobomber, where do you encounter tungsten light?
Most Canadian homes are lit with tungsten (incandescent) light. Most of the ceiling fixtures, lamps and pot lights in my home and my friends' and relatives' homes are lit with tungsten bulbs.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For my purposes, 18 month old technology at $500 off is the way to go. And I'm buying a Tamron 17-50- 2.8 with the savings. I will improve more images buying that lens and make more difference to my photography than buying a KII or "s" would.
Tamron 17-50 eh? I predict you will have an AF problem shortly.

12-16-2012, 02:35 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I expect an announcement at CP+; 24mp flagship APS-C, no AA filter, PDAF & CDAF improvements and focus peaking. That's my camera.
Same here, except that my camera will have an AA-filter. I'm sure Pentax will offer the latter option.
I guess Pentax may also offer an articulated screen. Somehow they need to create a differential between a pretty much perfect K-5 II and a new flagship.

QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I read an article once that claimed 36mp as optimum for APS-C. It was a well illustrated science based argument.
Does not make sense, though. Even for APS-C, 36MP are nowhere near the resolution saturation maximum. Maybe it was an argument based on current technology and/or talking about a good compromise.
12-16-2012, 06:29 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Does not make sense, though. Even for APS-C, 36MP are nowhere near the resolution saturation maximum. Maybe it was an argument based on current technology and/or talking about a good compromise.
You're probably right. I wish I could find the article, I've looked for it a few times. I bet the author never envisioned 21mp on a 1" sensor.
12-16-2012, 07:11 AM   #26
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Personally, more megapixels is low on my wish list as 16MP is more than adequate for great prints. I rank Dynamic range and high ISO performance higher on the list and would be hesitant to give them up for 24MP or greater. I hope there are incremental improvements in AF but realistically my K5 does a decent job in indoor sports and I have never had a complaint in outdoor situations. My bias is better lenses are more important and have spent accordingly.
12-16-2012, 08:42 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Sorry if this is a tangent to this thread and I don't really mean to hijack the thread, I was hoping it would be a simpler answer. Is the tungsten lighting issue an issue with the temperature of the light or the actual incandescent vs. florescent light source? I have no intention of using this for studio photography or anything like that and all of the lights in my house (main concern for artificial/low light environment) are CFL (3000K) or LED. My main problem with the K-X is that the trust issue related to the lack of AF points in the view finder, I limit the usability of it to center point AF. A secondary problem is the lack of IR AF assist light. I am sure the extra AF points and better quality of those points probably makes a nice difference too.

I am not in the mood to spend almost $1000 for an upgrade but the net difference between K-X and K-5 is tempting.
I have a K-30 and find that it focuses very well in almost any indoor situation I've encountered. The only Pentax camera that can do better in low light is the K-5 II (and 's') which goes to EV -3 (the K-30 goes to EV -1) for AF sensitivity.
12-16-2012, 12:30 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Primes4ever Quote
Personally, more megapixels is low on my wish list as 16MP is more than adequate for great prints. I rank Dynamic range and high ISO performance higher on the list and would be hesitant to give them up for 24MP or greater.
Comparing Sony 16mp results to 24mp on DXOMark shows there is no compromise on SNR or DR. Check the graphs, they are indistiguishable:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-came.../(brand2)/Sony

I'm going to say this every time, because the results are clear. There is no compromise in 24mp vs 16 unless you're bothered by larger (higher resolution) files.

Last edited by audiobomber; 12-16-2012 at 12:37 PM.
12-16-2012, 03:24 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
There is no compromise in 24mp vs 16 unless you're bothered by larger (higher resolution) files.
Correct, and 24MP files support higher cropping and have finer-grained noise.

The 24MP NEX-7 has a purple tinge issue with old wide-angle designs that the 16MP NEX-5 does not have. Apparently, the NEX-7 does not cope with oblique incident angles as well as the NEX-5 does. Whether that's a result of the higher pixel pitch or due to a different micro-lens design, or yet another reason, I don't know.

I haven't heard of the purple tinge issue regarding later incarnations of the 24MP sensor. Perhaps that means the issue has been addressed, perhaps it doesn't.

In any event, DSLRs should suffer much less, if at all, from this issue because of the much longer registration distance. Incident angles never become as oblique as they do on mirror-less cameras.

Last edited by Class A; 12-16-2012 at 03:30 PM.
12-16-2012, 04:39 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
In any event, DSLRs should suffer much less, if at all, from this issue because of the much longer registration distance. Incident angles never become as oblique as they do on mirror-less cameras.
True. I would add that a) Pentax seems to get better results with Sony sensors than Sony does and b) Sony has probably kept improving that sensor. The NEX-7 has been out for a while.
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