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02-22-2008, 02:22 AM   #1
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K100D Super : moving part in there ? Is it SR ?

Hi all,

first post here, just joined. Sorry to start with such an unmotivating thread
So, I've got a brand new K100D Super, and I am very pleased with it. I've noticed that when i turn the camera around in all directions (i.e. from bottom down (horizontal) to left down (vertical), right down, or top down, front down, etc), something is moving in there. Some relatively large part falls in place making a soft "plopp" in each direction. I would guess it moves about one millimeter around.
Is this the shake reduction ?
It's not the lens, neighter the batteries. I'm just wondering if this is normal or if something is not in screwed in place
The scary thing is that depending on the position in which the moving piece rests, I get a funny low-pitched whistling as long as the shutter is open, when exposing say a few seconds -- I did not expect this as there is no mechanical stuff moving while the exposition lasts. It seems not related to the shake reduction setting.
Otherwise anything is fine, pictures are great.

Anyone with similar observations ? Would be reassuring


Cheers from Switzerland !
Friedemann

02-22-2008, 02:34 AM   #2
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My K10D does exactly like that.
I have seen several posts about the moving part, it seems to be normal.
And mine also "whistles" occasionally, I really haven't tested different positions or SR settings, but yes I have that also.
02-22-2008, 03:31 AM   #3
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Yes, I have found the same "plopp" sound with my K10D when moving it around, though I haven't noticed whistling. When I first got the camera I was so concerned I wrote to Pentax. They wanted me to return it for inspection. However, it seemed to work perfectly so I didn't bother. I later saw other posts with people having the same experience. I can't remember now what some people thought the sound was. I wrote to Pentax again suggesting they ought to include a warning about the movement/sound in their manuals so people wouldn't worry. But I wonder if they have. Recently bought a K100D Super for my daughter and she's very happy with it. I'm sure you'll find it to be a great camera.

Paul
02-22-2008, 05:42 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Friedemann Quote
I've noticed that when i turn the camera around in all directions (i.e. from bottom down (horizontal) to left down (vertical), right down, or top down, front down, etc), something is moving in there. Some relatively large part falls in place making a soft "plopp" in each direction. I would guess it moves about one millimeter around.
Is this the shake reduction ?
The K10D also exhibits this behaviour. It is normal, it is the sensor, and it moves a lot more than 1mm.

There's been a lot of debate about this in various places for a long time, and when I noticed that during a very long exposure (many seconds) that quiet "slide-thunk" noise also occurs when SR is on, but not when it's off, I decided to investigate.

I've taken the lens off and actually watched what's happening during long exposures, with SR on and off.

Here are my findings with my K10D:

First with SR on:

The mirror pops up, and for small camera movements, you can see the sensor moving around as it tries to correct.

Then if I increase the amplitude of the movements, there comes a point, where it appears that the SR 'gives up', and the sensor visibly flops to the extent of its movement, under gravity.

From then on, SR is ineffective, and the sensor moves about only due to gravity. Rotating the camera makes the thunk happen... and without doubt it is the sensor moving that causes the "slide" noise, and the "thunk" happens when it stops. You can see it flop, and it thunks slightly as it hits the extent of its travel. It is the same "slide-thunk" as when the camera is not in the middle of an exposure.

Once the exposure is complete, the SR sorts itself out on its own - the next exposure then has SR effective again. There is no need to switch off and on.

And with SR off:

The sensor does not move during the exposure, at all. Rotating the camera does not result in the sensor moving at all under gravity. So no thunk.

Notes

It did not take a great deal of movement for the SR to 'give up' as I indicated above. Looking through the viewfinder, the little hand icon at the bottom on the left remained illuminated for the whole time, even after movements much larger than made the SR give up.

However, it does not seem that such large movements before the shutter opens cause failure of the SR system. I could half press the shutter, hold it half pressed, move the camera around through large movements, then complete the press with the camera making only small movements - with the camera then reasonably still, SR was clearly functioning. Which is nice.

02-22-2008, 06:40 AM   #5
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I do not notice any internal movements when I move my K100D as described but I do notice it if I shake the camera.

Cheers
Keith
02-22-2008, 07:14 AM   #6
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There was a previous thread regarding this, and there are several things you can hear with the camera.

First, if the camera is off, you can hear the sensor move because it is held in place with electromagnets.

with the camera on, and shake reduction active, you can hear the sensor move following a shot as the shake reduction powers off, it is only on and active during focus and metering.

You will hear all sorts of other sounds when takig photos, these will be normal,


as I pointed out in the other thread, the instruction manual tells you to put your eye to the view finder and take shots, not stick the camera in your ear.
02-22-2008, 07:43 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
First, if the camera is off, you can hear the sensor move because it is held in place with electromagnets.
No, you can hear it move because it is _not_ held in place.

QuoteQuote:
with the camera on, and shake reduction active, you can hear the sensor move following a shot as the shake reduction powers off
I would be surprised if you can hear anything after the mirror has popped back down. I certainly can't.

QuoteQuote:
it is only on and active during focus and metering.
No, it is on and active during an exposure as well.

Otherwise, it would be a bit pointless, wouldn't it?

It is held in place, and does not move, during an exposure for which SR is off.

If you think my description above is incorrect, why don't you have a look for yourself? I would certainly be interested in any confirmation or otherwise, that my camera is behaving normally.
02-22-2008, 01:25 PM   #8
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Original Poster
Thanks all for your posts.
I'm fully reassured; my camera works great, and the described moving part in there is not an assembly error; the sensor moving around explains the soft "plop"s when rotating the camera; it apparently happens in more or less all kind of settings and situations, even if the chip "should be hold in place", but no problem as usually I will not move the camera around while exposing

Concerning the origin of the "low-pitched whistling noise", I've just made a test : in my case it can also happen (depending on the orientation in which you hold the camera) if SR is turned off.
If this noise is really related to SR, then this could be plausible, as even if SR is turned off the electromagnetic SR-device probably nevertheless holds the CCD in place. That might also be the reason why it is written somewhere in the manual that turning SR off does not save power (if I remember well).

02-22-2008, 01:30 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisA Quote
No, you can hear it move because it is _not_ held in place.


I would be surprised if you can hear anything after the mirror has popped back down. I certainly can't.


No, it is on and active during an exposure as well.

Otherwise, it would be a bit pointless, wouldn't it?

It is held in place, and does not move, during an exposure for which SR is off.

If you think my description above is incorrect, why don't you have a look for yourself? I would certainly be interested in any confirmation or otherwise, that my camera is behaving normally.

No arguments, I left a few words out. Obviously if it is held in place with electromagnets, it is not held when the camera is off. When SR is off the electrromagnets hold it in one spot.

As for during focusing / metering, what I meant was any time the shutter is pressed half way or more. clearly it is working also during exposure
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