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02-23-2008, 01:10 AM   #46
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Wonderful!

Stewart, what an eye opener! Thanks for the info.

Now, I think I can start a new "RiceHigh's Canon Blog" and points these out! ;-) At the end of the days, I must thank you for providing me the useful information for posting!

However, would these Canon's users' complaints or reports will automatically make the Pentax DSLRs to perform better or just acceptably? Believe it or not, if you compare any Canon DSLR and a Pentax DSLR (model regardless), one will find that the SAFOX VIII just as crappy as they look, very obviously.


QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Of course, buying a Canon camera like yours solves everything, doesn't it, RiceHigh? Lets see what other Canon users have to say about that by peeking at some of the many messages about various focusing problems with various current or recent Canon cameras...

- Canon Europe Issues Statement: Canon EOS-1D Mark III AF

- Enough About the AF Problems In Every Thread (Canon EOS-1D/1Ds/5D Forum)

- Canon Discovers AF Glitch (Canon EOS 20D, EOS-1D Mark II)

- Canon 400D AF problem (back-focusing)

- Canon 10D Focus Tese (Canon EOS 10D Focusing Problems)

- 20d Long Range Af Problem? (Canon EOS 20D Focusing Issue)

- Autofocus Challenge (Low Light)(Canon 350D)

- Focus Issue (Canon EPS 20D)

- 1D Mark II - Focusing Problems? (Low Light)

A quick search revealed hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such messages all over the internet. While we're at it, lets also see what Canon users say about various exposure problems with current or recent Canon cameras...

- What's wrong with exposure histograms? (Canon EOS 5D)

- Banding problem with Canon 5D (Canon USA Letter)

- Canon EOS 300D Exposure Problems

- Canon EOS 400D Exposure Problems

- Canon D30 Over Exposure Problem

- Exposure Problem With Canon 20D

- Underexposure (Canon D-30)

- Exposure Problem (Canon EOS 20D)

- Exposure Problems (Canon EOS 350D)

Again, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such messages. Clearly, in spite of your particular preference for Canon cameras (owning an EOS 5D yourself), Canon cameras are not immune to little issues here and there. Gee, I guess that would make them very similar to Pentax cameras in that regard.

stewart


02-23-2008, 02:36 AM   #47
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What do we have to do to get RiceHigh banned? I'm getting sick of it. It's no use blocking him, because I personally don't really care--it's the people new to the forum who will occasionaly take his word as law.

Don't take this the wrong way (I mean that to everyone but RH), but I've moderated several forums and this would never be tolerated.
02-23-2008, 02:40 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by benplaut Quote
What do we have to do to get RiceHigh banned? I'm getting sick of it. It's no use blocking him, because I personally don't really care--it's the people new to the forum who will occasionaly take his word as law.

Don't take this the wrong way (I mean that to everyone but RH), but I've moderated several forums and this would never be tolerated.
So, you want to control also this one? Is here *yours*?
02-23-2008, 12:41 PM   #49
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Infraction issued.


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02-23-2008, 01:10 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by afs760bf Quote
At one time, wedding photography, and probably fashon photography (although I have never tried it) is about your ability to manage people, and get them to do what you want naturally, almost subconciously. I'm sure the really successful wedding photographers do just this. Its not about equipment at all.

Not necessarily disagreeing in principle, but if you take a look at what's happening in wedding photography today:

Wedding Photojournalist Association® | WPJA® | Wedding Photojournalism Photos and Wedding Photographers Resources | Reportage and Candid

You'll see that the shots are not necessarily the type that can be obtained by managing people any more. It's about "capturing the moment." I hate that phrase, by the way
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You can beat me up for this, I don't know much about wedding photography (despite shooting an "alternative" ceremony once), but I must say I'm not impressed by the quality of these shots at all (WPA 2007 contest). Most of them could've been easily gotten with a P&S with the benefit of better DOF. I mean, I don't see many aestethically pleasing shots, mostly random snaps of people facing opposite to the camera...

And, most important, I browsed through tens of pictures and I couldn't find a single one where I think my Pentaxes would have trouble with AF, unless you're aiming randomly at different subjects all the time. Is that what's going on??

Last edited by ricardobeat; 02-23-2008 at 01:17 PM.
02-23-2008, 02:23 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by afs760bf Quote
Not necessarily disagreeing in principle, but if you take a look at what's happening in wedding photography today:

Wedding Photojournalist Association® | WPJA® | Wedding Photojournalism Photos and Wedding Photographers Resources | Reportage and Candid

You'll see that the shots are not necessarily the type that can be obtained by managing people any more. It's about "capturing the moment." I hate that phrase, by the way:

In addition to what Lowell has already said, I think there is some misunderstanding about the phrase "managing people." Just like management on the job, there are two ways to manage people. The first is very specific, as in go over here and do exactly this. And the second is more vague, as in someone needs to do this, so you figure it out. Posing the bride and groom, so-called traditional wedding photography, is an example of the first type. The dance floor images are an example of the second type. In each case, you know where people are and what they are doing. At the same time, one can interject guidence into the task (leave some boxes in the warehouse or you two dancing turn this way a bit so I can photograph your faces). By the way, wedding photography has always (now and then) included both types - posed and unposed, controlled and less controlled situations.

Anyway, the couples dancing are there for some time (songs typically last at least two or three minutes and there are usually plenty of songs), so a half second, or even 60 seconds (being humorious, of course), of focusing (auto or manual) shouldn't make all that much of a difference.

stewart
02-23-2008, 06:25 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
In addition to what Lowell has already said, I think there is some misunderstanding about the phrase "managing people." Just like management on the job, there are two ways to manage people. The first is very specific, as in go over here and do exactly this. And the second is more vague, as in someone needs to do this, so you figure it out. Posing the bride and groom, so-called traditional wedding photography, is an example of the first type. The dance floor images are an example of the second type. In each case, you know where people are and what they are doing. At the same time, one can interject guidence into the task (leave some boxes in the warehouse or you two dancing turn this way a bit so I can photograph your faces). By the way, wedding photography has always (now and then) included both types - posed and unposed, controlled and less controlled situations.

Anyway, the couples dancing are there for some time (songs typically last at least two or three minutes and there are usually plenty of songs), so a half second, or even 60 seconds (being humorious, of course), of focusing (auto or manual) shouldn't make all that much of a difference.

stewart
Your close Stewart. What I really meant was getting people to do things, but remain relaxed, and at ease, without coming across like a sergent major in the marines. It is a skill, and you need to have everyone relaxed, and at ease if you want to"capture the moment" it is really about people having fun, and encouraging them just a little.
02-23-2008, 08:34 PM   #53
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That's basically what I meant (overstated perhaps) by the second type of people management, Lowell. In this case, "someone needs to do this" is someone needs to take a picture. The "you figure it out" refers to the guests, as in do what you want (dance, etc) but with some (not overwhelming) awareness a camera is present. And this is where the interjected guidence comes in. And notice I was careful to use the word "guidence" instead of something more harsh.

stewart

02-23-2008, 09:58 PM   #54
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Note the 5D's generally noted for having the best low-light AF of its generation, it actually outperformed the 1DmIIN in low light (and only in low light). The 6 'invisible' AF points that it has over the 20D/30D make a huge difference and it appears that Canon optimized the performance for questionable lighting conditions.

@RiceHigh: Ever used a MZ body other than the MZ-S? Aside from that one body, the MZ AF was terrible. The MZ-5n was the best of the lot and it hunted badly in low light. It made the *istD's AF look brilliant.

If AF performance is a major issue, Canon or Nikon's where you want to be. Both are clearly better than the smaller companies on this issue (Oly marketing is full of crap about the E-3's AF, it's good, but not up to CaNikon's pro bodies).
02-24-2008, 10:29 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Infraction issued.
Ok, I've read the forum usage guide but I don't see anything about "rules" there except a note about how to report said rules. So what are these rules that RiceHigh has supposedly violated? For that matter, what exactly are the "rules" of this forum and where are they posted? Or was this "infraction" issued in reference to someone else?

Richard
02-24-2008, 10:35 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old Timer 56 Quote
Ok, I've read the forum usage guide but I don't see anything about "rules" there except a note about how to report said rules. So what are these rules that RiceHigh has supposedly violated? For that matter, what exactly are the "rules" of this forum and where are they posted? Or was this "infraction" issued in reference to someone else?

Richard
None that I know of.

Although he may be biased (like the rest of us, just not towards pentax) he has on occasionally made some good comments.

I always say let him rant, a little negative criticism is good for all us pentax lovers once in a while.
02-24-2008, 02:16 PM   #57
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"In an attempt to keep the Forum as friendly as possible, the Forum staff will delete, close, or edit any threads that violate the Forum Rules. Additionally, users, including "trolls," that act disrespectfully in their posts or otherwise cause trouble will be banned or warned as needed."

Of course, that's a fine line in either direction, but for all that RH talks, I've yet to see something positive or even insightful [about Pentax equipment]. Most of us aren't insightful, but at least we pick our arguments! As far as I can figure out, this is a place to come and talk about the pros and cons of equipment, solve problems, show off our pics, share techniques, and the marketplace. RiceHigh seems to really only to point out the cons of equipment. Even if it's true, it's not really the best way to make that point--it comes out a bit inflammatory.

I'm going to leave before I myself start resorting to personal attacks. I mean no disrespect to you, RiceHigh, as a person. It's just that your posts are more the sort of thing that would fit on POTN.

--Ben


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02-24-2008, 03:07 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old Timer 56 Quote
Ok, I've read the forum usage guide but I don't see anything about "rules" there except a note about how to report said rules. So what are these rules that RiceHigh has supposedly violated? For that matter, what exactly are the "rules" of this forum and where are they posted? Or was this "infraction" issued in reference to someone else?

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WOW. I thought Ben would have received the notice, I didn't find anything RH said to be offensive but his continual persecution certainly is.
02-24-2008, 03:28 PM   #59
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Here's another one for the "make do" column. When I first got my K10D my conclusion was that Pentax AF wasn't very good for at all. I haven't changed my mind, but I've changed my technique, and getting decent results. Pentax just has a fun system, and I think that just makes you shoot more, and of course, the more you shoot, the more keepers you get, everything else being fairly equal.

Pentax, for better or worse, has a system that requires the photographer's active involvement. I think you have to work harder shooting Pentax, but the rewards are commensurate, and the lens selection to die for, as long as you don't care about ultimate AF. Of course, I'm not making money from any of this; fun is the name of the game. If I had to feed my kid and pay the bills and depended on AF for getting the shot, I'd make a beeline straight for Canon. For instance, as far as I can tell, there is no Pentax lens of the same maximum aperture and reach that will approach the AF speed of the EF 85mm 1.8 USM, and this is ignoring the performance of the various bodies. For one thing, the 85mm has the build of a plastic toy and has what seems like zero mass for that USM to throw around. Pentax seems to more concerned with size (and that limits how fast the lens can be), and build quality (and that limits how lightweight the lens can be) -- a fair trade off, but a trade off nonetheless.

And lastly, I have to say I find the whining about the whining more tiresome. Let people rant; it has no bearing on how well the camera works for you, and there's a good chance Pentax corporate will listen and respond with improved cameras.
02-24-2008, 03:43 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by twinda1 Quote
And lastly, I have to say I find the whining about the whining more tiresome. Let people rant; it has no bearing on how well the camera works for you, and there's a good chance Pentax corporate will listen and respond with improved cameras.
Well said. Boring, pointless and tiresome....
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