[RiceHigh]

Stewart, what an eye opener! Thanks for the info.

Now, I think I can start a new "RiceHigh's Canon Blog" and points these out! ;-) At the end of the days, I must thank you for providing me the useful information for posting!

However, would these Canon's users' complaints or reports will automatically make the Pentax DSLRs to perform better or just acceptably? Believe it or not, if you compare any Canon DSLR and a Pentax DSLR (model regardless), one will find that the SAFOX VIII just as crappy as they look, very obviously.

Of course, buying a Canon camera like yours solves everything, doesn't it, RiceHigh? Lets see what other Canon users have to say about that by peeking at some of the many messages about various focusing problems with various current or recent Canon cameras...

- Canon Europe Issues Statement: Canon EOS-1D Mark III AF

- Enough About the AF Problems In Every Thread (Canon EOS-1D/1Ds/5D Forum)

- Canon Discovers AF Glitch (Canon EOS 20D, EOS-1D Mark II)

- Canon 400D AF problem (back-focusing)

- Canon 10D Focus Tese (Canon EOS 10D Focusing Problems)

- 20d Long Range Af Problem? (Canon EOS 20D Focusing Issue)

- Autofocus Challenge (Low Light)(Canon 350D)

- Focus Issue (Canon EPS 20D)

- 1D Mark II - Focusing Problems? (Low Light)

A quick search revealed hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such messages all over the internet. While we're at it, lets also see what Canon users say about various exposure problems with current or recent Canon cameras...

- What's wrong with exposure histograms? (Canon EOS 5D)

- Banding problem with Canon 5D (Canon USA Letter)

- Canon EOS 300D Exposure Problems

- Canon EOS 400D Exposure Problems

- Canon D30 Over Exposure Problem

- Exposure Problem With Canon 20D

- Underexposure (Canon D-30)

- Exposure Problem (Canon EOS 20D)

- Exposure Problems (Canon EOS 350D)

Again, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such messages. Clearly, in spite of your particular preference for Canon cameras (owning an EOS 5D yourself), Canon cameras are not immune to little issues here and there. Gee, I guess that would make them very similar to Pentax cameras in that regard.

stewart

[benplaut]

What do we have to do to get RiceHigh banned? I'm getting sick of it. It's no use blocking him, because I personally don't really care--it's the people new to the forum who will occasionaly take his word as law.

Don't take this the wrong way (I mean that to everyone but RH), but I've moderated several forums and this would never be tolerated.

[RiceHigh]

What do we have to do to get RiceHigh banned? I'm getting sick of it. It's no use blocking him, because I personally don't really care--it's the people new to the forum who will occasionaly take his word as law.

Don't take this the wrong way (I mean that to everyone but RH), but I've moderated several forums and this would never be tolerated.

So, you want to control also this one? Is here *yours*?

[Adam]

Infraction issued.

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

[ricardobeat]

At one time, wedding photography, and probably fashon photography (although I have never tried it) is about your ability to manage people, and get them to do what you want naturally, almost subconciously. I'm sure the really successful wedding photographers do just this. Its not about equipment at all.

Not necessarily disagreeing in principle, but if you take a look at what's happening in wedding photography today:

Wedding Photojournalist Association® | WPJA® | Wedding Photojournalism Photos and Wedding Photographers Resources | Reportage and Candid

You'll see that the shots are not necessarily the type that can be obtained by managing people any more. It's about "capturing the moment." I hate that phrase, by the way [/SIZE]

You can beat me up for this, I don't know much about wedding photography (despite shooting an "alternative" ceremony once), but I must say I'm not impressed by the quality of these shots at all (WPA 2007 contest). Most of them could've been easily gotten with a P&S with the benefit of better DOF. I mean, I don't see many aestethically pleasing shots, mostly random snaps of people facing opposite to the camera...

And, most important, I browsed through tens of pictures and I couldn't find a single one where I think my Pentaxes would have trouble with AF, unless you're aiming randomly at different subjects all the time. Is that what's going on??

[stewart_photo]

Not necessarily disagreeing in principle, but if you take a look at what's happening in wedding photography today:

Wedding Photojournalist Association® | WPJA® | Wedding Photojournalism Photos and Wedding Photographers Resources | Reportage and Candid

You'll see that the shots are not necessarily the type that can be obtained by managing people any more. It's about "capturing the moment." I hate that phrase, by the way:

In addition to what Lowell has already said, I think there is some misunderstanding about the phrase "managing people." Just like management on the job, there are two ways to manage people. The first is very specific, as in go over here and do exactly this. And the second is more vague, as in someone needs to do this, so you figure it out. Posing the bride and groom, so-called traditional wedding photography, is an example of the first type. The dance floor images are an example of the second type. In each case, you know where people are and what they are doing. At the same time, one can interject guidence into the task (leave some boxes in the warehouse or you two dancing turn this way a bit so I can photograph your faces). By the way, wedding photography has always (now and then) included both types - posed and unposed, controlled and less controlled situations.

Anyway, the couples dancing are there for some time (songs typically last at least two or three minutes and there are usually plenty of songs), so a half second, or even 60 seconds (being humorious, of course), of focusing (auto or manual) shouldn't make all that much of a difference.

stewart

[Lowell Goudge]

In addition to what Lowell has already said, I think there is some misunderstanding about the phrase "managing people." Just like management on the job, there are two ways to manage people. The first is very specific, as in go over here and do exactly this. And the second is more vague, as in someone needs to do this, so you figure it out. Posing the bride and groom, so-called traditional wedding photography, is an example of the first type. The dance floor images are an example of the second type. In each case, you know where people are and what they are doing. At the same time, one can interject guidence into the task (leave some boxes in the warehouse or you two dancing turn this way a bit so I can photograph your faces). By the way, wedding photography has always (now and then) included both types - posed and unposed, controlled and less controlled situations.

Anyway, the couples dancing are there for some time (songs typically last at least two or three minutes and there are usually plenty of songs), so a half second, or even 60 seconds (being humorious, of course), of focusing (auto or manual) shouldn't make all that much of a difference.

stewart

Your close Stewart. What I really meant was getting people to do things, but remain relaxed, and at ease, without coming across like a sergent major in the marines. It is a skill, and you need to have everyone relaxed, and at ease if you want to"capture the moment" it is really about people having fun, and encouraging them just a little.

[stewart_photo]

That's basically what I meant (overstated perhaps) by the second type of people management, Lowell. In this case, "someone needs to do this" is someone needs to take a picture. The "you figure it out" refers to the guests, as in do what you want (dance, etc) but with some (not overwhelming) awareness a camera is present. And this is where the interjected guidence comes in. And notice I was careful to use the word "guidence" instead of something more harsh.

stewart

[mawz]

Note the 5D's generally noted for having the best low-light AF of its generation, it actually outperformed the 1DmIIN in low light (and only in low light). The 6 'invisible' AF points that it has over the 20D/30D make a huge difference and it appears that Canon optimized the performance for questionable lighting conditions.

@RiceHigh: Ever used a MZ body other than the MZ-S? Aside from that one body, the MZ AF was terrible. The MZ-5n was the best of the lot and it hunted badly in low light. It made the *istD's AF look brilliant.

If AF performance is a major issue, Canon or Nikon's where you want to be. Both are clearly better than the smaller companies on this issue (Oly marketing is full of crap about the E-3's AF, it's good, but not up to CaNikon's pro bodies).

[Old Timer 56]

Infraction issued.

Ok, I've read the forum usage guide but I don't see anything about "rules" there except a note about how to report said rules. So what are these rules that RiceHigh has supposedly violated? For that matter, what exactly are the "rules" of this forum and where are they posted? Or was this "infraction" issued in reference to someone else?

Richard

[Lowell Goudge]

Ok, I've read the forum usage guide but I don't see anything about "rules" there except a note about how to report said rules. So what are these rules that RiceHigh has supposedly violated? For that matter, what exactly are the "rules" of this forum and where are they posted? Or was this "infraction" issued in reference to someone else?

Richard

None that I know of.

Although he may be biased (like the rest of us, just not towards pentax) he has on occasionally made some good comments.

I always say let him rant, a little negative criticism is good for all us pentax lovers once in a while.

[benplaut]

"In an attempt to keep the Forum as friendly as possible, the Forum staff will delete, close, or edit any threads that violate the Forum Rules. Additionally, users, including "trolls," that act disrespectfully in their posts or otherwise cause trouble will be banned or warned as needed."

Of course, that's a fine line in either direction, but for all that RH talks, I've yet to see something positive or even insightful [about Pentax equipment]. Most of us aren't insightful, but at least we pick our arguments! As far as I can figure out, this is a place to come and talk about the pros and cons of equipment, solve problems, show off our pics, share techniques, and the marketplace. RiceHigh seems to really only to point out the cons of equipment. Even if it's true, it's not really the best way to make that point--it comes out a bit inflammatory.

I'm going to leave before I myself start resorting to personal attacks. I mean no disrespect to you, RiceHigh, as a person. It's just that your posts are more the sort of thing that would fit on POTN.

--Ben

PentaxForums.com Forum Rules:

I. Registration
Anyone who can read and write in English may register a single account on the Forum. He or she must provide a valid date of birth and e-mail address to automatically activate the account. Users may only use the forum after agreement to the registration terms, forum rules, and any additional rules stated by moderators or administrators.

II. Posting
There is no limit on the number of posts made by each user, but topics must always be created in the correct corresponding forum category. Flooding, spamming, and advertising are not tolerated. Although users may occasionally post links to useful resources and personal galleries, any other sites may not be promoted. All posts are also to be written in a mature fashion with correct spelling and grammar.

Users may edit or delete their own posts at any time, but please be aware that double-posting or thread bumping is not allowed. If a user spots any instance of forum abuse, spam, or illegal activity, he or she is asked to contact a moderator or administrator at earliest convenience.

We ask that all users use BBCode styling reasonably; large text sizes, greatly varied fonts, and strange coloring are not allowed. Please note that any HTML code posted on the forum will not be parsed and is therefore not allowed.

These rules also apply to user photo gallery and links directory comments.

III. Private Messaging
All forum users are allowed to use the private messaging system (PM system). Although there is no restriction on the total number of private messages sent and received by a user, each inbox is limited to a certain number of simultaneous stored messages (generally 1,000). Each user may delete or re-organize his or her private messages to free up space as he or she sees fit.

The PM system can be disabled on an individual basis through the User CP. Administrators reserve the right to periodically prune old messages.

IV. Signatures & Avatars
All users have the privilege to display a signature, a profile picture, and an avatar, given that each does not contain copyrighted images and is not offensive, inappropriate, or vulgar.

Avatars have a height and width limit of 80 pixels; avatars consisting of copyrighted images will be removed. Profile pictures, which may measure up to 100x100 pixels, are also allowed, but they cannot be animated.

Signatures should be short and no longer that 5 lines total; they may contain up to 3 images and 500 characters. Long signatures are automatically rejected by the system, and forum Administrators and Moderators reserve the right to truncate user signatures as they see fit. Signature display permissions may be temporarily or permanently suspended upon abuse, which includes excessive linking. Site Supporters have increased signature size allowances.

V. User Privileges
Users may log in, read posts, create posts, modify their profiles, create polls, report posts, and add events to the calendar at any time. Users may also request a single account name change at any time.

Each user may upload up to 50 photos (limited to 1Mb each) to the user photo gallery and attach up to 1024Kb (1Mb) of files to his or her posts. Users are also free to post Pentax lens reviews or suggest links to our Links Database at any time. Site Supporters, or members that have donated to PentaxForums.com, have increased usage quotas and may upload up to 10Mb of attachments and 200 photos.

Administrator and Moderator requests and decisions must be treated as final and obeyed at all times.

VI. Moderation
In an attempt to keep the Forum as friendly as possible, the Forum staff will delete, close, or edit any threads that violate the Forum Rules. Additionally, users, including "trolls," that act disrespectfully in their posts or otherwise cause trouble will be banned or warned as needed.

Should illegal action be noted, a user and his or her IP address may be reported to the authorities. Certain misconduct, including spamming, can lead to extended, immediate, or permanent bans.

VII. Forum Marketplace
Pentaxforums.com offers a marketplace section in which members are free to sell or trade their photography equipment to other members of the community, or to post threads looking for items. In order to keep item listings organized, members are asked to close their threads using the automatic thread-closure system whenever an item listing is sold, traded, cancelled, or no longer being looked for. Although linking to online auction sites is allowed, users may only promote their own auctions and such links may only be posted after an item has been listed for at least one week in the Marketplace.

An asking price, or price range, is required for all items. False promotional information within item listings is not tolerated and will be removed upon discovery by the forum staff. Furthermore, we will remove listings and contact the respective seller if we note any suspicious material or activity.

Public commenting on the price of any item is not recommended. Although the site staff will remove listings with suspicious pricing, we ask that members do not publicly intervene unless well-justified and that all communication regarding pricing (and purchasing) is conducted via PM. Within each marketplace thread, users may ask questions about the item offered for sale, notify the seller of a PM or status change, or discuss technical details as well as shipping.

Upon a successful transaction, we ask that members exchange public feedback via our feedback system. Please remember that purchases of items listed in the Marketplace are made at your own risk and are in no way associated with PentaxForums.com. The site moderators, administrators, and owners are not responsible for any loss resulting from use of the Marketplace.

Abuse of this section to deliberately harm other members may result in legal action and/or a ban from the site.

VIII. Liability
The owners of the Forum take no responsibility for the misconduct of any user or guest. We are not liable for the content of any post, thread, or photo, although we will try to eliminate any objectionable material on sight. Furthermore, we are not liable for any data loss or other damage caused by the site or routine forum maintenance, including downtime.

All uploaded photos and files are copyright of their original authors; the Forum does not take ownership of any material uploaded or posted on the site. Each user is personally responsible for the content he or she posts on the Forum. By posting content on the site, each user acknowleges that it may be altered, removed, or stored at any time.

PentaxForums.com is an unofficial site that is in no way affiliated with the Pentax Corporation.

IX. Privacy
Private information (such as IP address) collected during the use of the Forum is never given away to the public or to a third party. Note that we cannot guarantee the privacy of anything that a user places in his or her public profile, threads, or posts.

When one donates to our site via PayPal, we do not obtain any personal information except the transaction ID and PayPal e-mail address. Neither of these credentials will be publicly disclosed; we only use them only to contact you if needed.

When one browses our site, information about his or her computer is temporarily logged for statistical purposes only. This information includes IP address, location, browser type, screen resolution, operating system, pages visited, and referring sites. This data, stored of the 100 most recent site visitors, is used for statistical purposes only and is immediately discarded.

Upon registration, posting, and browsing, we permanently record user IP addresses for security reasons. These will never be disclosed to third-parties or the public, and they will only be used to identify users who abuse the Forum. If we spot illegal activity on the Forum, we may report IP addresses to the authorities.

We do not recommend the disclosure of personally identifiable information (PII) in your public profile or on the internet in general, and we are not responsible for any consequences that may arise thereof.

##############################################

Thank you for reading the rules, and please contact us if you have any questions or comments. Note that the PentaxForums.com Forum is known as “the Forum” throughout these rules. Enjoy the site!

[distudio]

Ok, I've read the forum usage guide but I don't see anything about "rules" there except a note about how to report said rules. So what are these rules that RiceHigh has supposedly violated? For that matter, what exactly are the "rules" of this forum and where are they posted? Or was this "infraction" issued in reference to someone else?

Richard

WOW. I thought Ben would have received the notice, I didn't find anything RH said to be offensive but his continual persecution certainly is.

[twinda1]

Here's another one for the "make do" column. When I first got my K10D my conclusion was that Pentax AF wasn't very good for at all. I haven't changed my mind, but I've changed my technique, and getting decent results. Pentax just has a fun system, and I think that just makes you shoot more, and of course, the more you shoot, the more keepers you get, everything else being fairly equal.

Pentax, for better or worse, has a system that requires the photographer's active involvement. I think you have to work harder shooting Pentax, but the rewards are commensurate, and the lens selection to die for, as long as you don't care about ultimate AF. Of course, I'm not making money from any of this; fun is the name of the game. If I had to feed my kid and pay the bills and depended on AF for getting the shot, I'd make a beeline straight for Canon. For instance, as far as I can tell, there is no Pentax lens of the same maximum aperture and reach that will approach the AF speed of the EF 85mm 1.8 USM, and this is ignoring the performance of the various bodies. For one thing, the 85mm has the build of a plastic toy and has what seems like zero mass for that USM to throw around. Pentax seems to more concerned with size (and that limits how fast the lens can be), and build quality (and that limits how lightweight the lens can be) -- a fair trade off, but a trade off nonetheless.

And lastly, I have to say I find the whining about the whining more tiresome. Let people rant; it has no bearing on how well the camera works for you, and there's a good chance Pentax corporate will listen and respond with improved cameras.

[Peter Zack]

And lastly, I have to say I find the whining about the whining more tiresome. Let people rant; it has no bearing on how well the camera works for you, and there's a good chance Pentax corporate will listen and respond with improved cameras.

Well said. Boring, pointless and tiresome....