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02-01-2013, 12:09 AM   #1
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Will they all be mirrorless someday?

Not sure where to post this. Do you think the DSLR will no longer be needed? Will the mirrorless cameras be so good that DSLR will be old news and no longer needed? They are making mirrorless cameras with nice attachable lenes. They take a good photo too.

Some people seem to think mirrorless is the way of the future. I don't think so but maybe.....

02-01-2013, 12:30 AM   #2
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I personally think that they will dominate the consumer market once the AF gets on part with phase detect. DSLRs will then only be used by pros and true enthusiasts.

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02-01-2013, 12:40 AM   #3
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Not all, film SLR will stay forever...
02-01-2013, 12:48 AM   #4
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Not until they come with a bigger sensor and better EVFs.

Coming only recently from 35 mm SLRs with nice fast primes, viewfinders in APS-C DSLRs with slow zooms already suck ... not much ground for the EVFs to make up. But probably at the same time DSLR makers might see sense with sensor size and lens speed.

02-01-2013, 12:53 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
DSLRs will then only be used by pros and true enthusiasts.
Really? I'm a pro and I use a NEX for studio photography. I prefer the viewfinder of the NEX over the OVF of my 5DMKII. It's just better. Bigger, brighter, more precise, more control. That's why I would love to see any manufacturer produce the first EVIL FF with a nice set of PRO level, or even PROsumer level, features.

Current DSLRs aren't really fully digital. The mirrors, prisms, shims, etc are all analogue remnants from the film era.
02-01-2013, 01:09 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Really? I'm a pro and I use a NEX for studio photography. I prefer the viewfinder of the NEX over the OVF of my 5DMKII. It's just better. Bigger, brighter, more precise, more contro
Yep - that's outside my experience but I could imagine it would be ideal for that scenario. Where you're on the move, with dynamic subjects, time pressure, sunlight etc, personally I find LCDs/live view next to useless. (I use a compact for street photography but just spray and pray without bothering to try to use the silly LCD.) But I could easily imagine it won't be long until better EVFs are paired with better sensors to make that complaint a thing of the past.
02-01-2013, 02:00 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Really? I'm a pro and I use a NEX for studio photography. I prefer the viewfinder of the NEX over the OVF of my 5DMKII. It's just better. Bigger, brighter, more precise, more control. That's why I would love to see any manufacturer produce the first EVIL FF with a nice set of PRO level, or even PROsumer level, features.

Current DSLRs aren't really fully digital. The mirrors, prisms, shims, etc are all analogue remnants from the film era.
This is sort of going off topic, but there are two areas in which OVFs will always be better: power consumption and latency. In both cases, there is none. No matter how hard you try, an EVF is always going to have some sort of delay to it, and to make it seem true-to-life manufacturers will need to up the framerate and resolution, and thus also camera's processing power. Similarly, in low light, many EVF's aren't that great these days. At the rate things are going these days, though, I'm sure a solution to that will be found and implemented soon enough.

With that said, EVFs do have their pros, but based on what I've seen so far I'll be sticking to DSLRs for a while. There's nothing like looking through a lens with your own eyes...

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02-01-2013, 02:20 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
DSLRs will then only be used by pros and true enthusiasts.
I don't know about that. Many commercial studio photographers and landscape photographers that I know use large format cameras with digital backs - large format cameras being mirrorless and all that. I would say that for the majority of photographers invested in consumer level equipment the current SLR technology will continue to exist especially for sports photography - but for photographers that have equipment size constraints mirrorless systems will always hold their appeal. Now that I think of it, it would be interesting if someone made a medium format TLR...there could be a real market for that - those things were the Leica of the medium format world. The Schneider lenses that were made for the Rollei TLRs were nothing short of spectacular - they wiped the floor with the original zeiss lenses that were designed for them.


Last edited by Digitalis; 02-01-2013 at 02:25 AM.
02-01-2013, 03:47 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
This is sort of going off topic
How are the advantages and disadvantages of mirrored and mirrorless cameras off-topic in a mirrored vs unmirrored camera thread?


QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
but there are two areas in which OVFs will always be better: power consumption and latency. In both cases, there is none. No matter how hard you try, an EVF is always going to have some sort of delay to it, and to make it seem true-to-life manufacturers will need to up the framerate and resolution, and thus also camera's processing power. Similarly, in low light, many EVF's aren't that great these days. At the rate things are going these days, though, I'm sure a solution to that will be found and implemented soon enough.
While most of this is true, the question is: Is the difference really that problematic that it is still even relevant right now?

With such discussions I keep having flashbacks of the endless discussions back during the digital revolution about how "film will always be better then digital." And moreover, how "pro's will always use film". (Even though pro's often are the first adopters of new evolutions.)

I miss the hassle of film like I miss having a bad toothache. And in the same way, I will love not going to have to go throught the tedious figetty process of installing 3rd party focus screens and shims in my already expensive cameras to enable somewhat correct focussing with fast lenses... only to create blackout problems with other lenses again.

And I know many befriended (competing) pro's who think alike. We're waiting for the first manufacturer to have the guts to market the first pro level EVIL. Whatever sensor it may have.

Btw, OVF have worse low light performance. They show much less detail due to the darkness. This is an undeniable disadvantage of the OVF. It's physics: an OVF kan only substract light, never add any. The image from in front of the lens has to pass the through the mirror, the prism, the focus screen, the optics in the OVF, they all substract light. That's why they are so dark.


QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
There's nothing like looking through a lens with your own eyes...
Agreed... But how is this not the case with a mirrorless camera then? Your eye looks through the lens just the same.
02-01-2013, 03:59 AM   #10
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Clavius, as you know, there is already a dedicated thread discussing the virtues of EVF and OVF...
This thread is now expanding on this - whether dSLRs will be superseded by MILCs.
And in the other thread, it was pretty much accepted that some day in the future, it probably will for the biggest part of the consumer market, but there are benefits of dSLRs that a niche group (some enthusiasts and pros) will want that MILCs don't quite match (Adam has already succinctly listed those).

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
OVF have worse low light performance
Not quite. Shadow and highlight detail seen through an OVF is eyesight (visual acuity) dependent.
02-01-2013, 04:15 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
TNo matter how hard you try, an EVF is always going to have some sort of delay to it
Well, yes... but it takes about a nanosecond for light to propagate from the front element of a long lens to your eye. When digitial processing approaches that speed (or even 1/1000 of that) it will be equal in peformance, in that regard. The way things are going, that won't be many years or decades.
02-01-2013, 04:20 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Your eye looks through the lens just the same.
Actually with a MILC or an SLR you're looking at a screen, either way. One's a digital screen, the other a physical screen. Both introduce granularity that is a pain in the butt.
02-01-2013, 06:15 AM   #13
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I believe so ... less components more stable
02-01-2013, 06:25 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Clavius, as you know, there is already a dedicated thread discussing the virtues of EVF and OVF...
And as you know, EVF vs OVF is directly linked, one-on-one, to mirrorless vs mirrored. A car that uses diesel, requires a diesel engine, and a camera without an optical viewfinder, requires an electronic one.

So, it is very much on topic. I know, in your eyes, all disadvantages of mirrored systems should be considered off topic. But I don't think hiding facts contributes in any way whatsoever.


QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
This thread is now expanding on this - whether dSLRs will be superseded by MILCs.
Again, how is me expressing my opinion that DSLRs can be superceded by mirrorless systems right now, off topic?


QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
it was pretty much accepted that some day in the future, it probably will for the biggest part of the consumer market
That's funny, because mirrorless cameras already outsell DSLRs many times over today. If you add phones to that then it would seem that the DSLR is already on its way out.


QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
but there are benefits of dSLRs that a niche group (some enthusiasts and pros) will want that MILCs don't quite match (Adam has already succinctly listed those).
The "pros" are almost always the very first people to try out exiting new products and technologies. Whilst the "expert" amateurs and enthusiasts just keep nagging about what pro's are supposed to use.

It's the evolution from film to digital all over again. Lots of pros were already earning money shooting with a DSLR when all the amateur experts were shouting that pro's will still only be using film for decades.
02-01-2013, 09:34 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Agreed... But how is this not the case with a mirrorless camera then? Your eye looks through the lens just the same.
Well technically you look at what the sensor sees after the camera has processed it- which could have a different white balance, include noise (when it's dark and the EVF tries to boost shadows), seem too bright, etc.

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