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View Poll Results: Tell the OP and the Originals at Pentax:
The AE-L button is fine like it is I enjoy it every day. 2055.56%
What's the fuss? Do you get twisted just by touching a 7D? 513.89%
The AE-L should lock the exposure, period. 1130.56%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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02-24-2008, 02:56 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
I only mentioned one camera
Wrong!

actually you mention 3, the 5D, 7D and Mi-Sony.

02-25-2008, 12:50 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
Wrong!

actually you mention 3, the 5D, 7D and Mi-Sony.
Ordnung muss sein.

(that's German)

In the previous post where I used a foreign language (the one you were replying to) I only mentioned Pentax. So I'm not wrong but right, of course.

But you are making a good point:
QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
The issue is only to those who switch
I've been writing about things I bump into while switching. There are things switchers have to learn, but there are also things the receiving community (in this case Pentax) can learn by listening to newcomers. It's part of evolution.

- Mathias
02-25-2008, 01:48 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
(snip) but there are also things the receiving community (in this case Pentax) can learn by listening to newcomers. It's part of evolution.

Such as? So far, all I've learned is that you don't like the way Pentax does the AE-L button. Of course, since I don't work for Pentax, don't have any influence in the design of Pentax cameras, and don't have any dispute with the AE-L button as is, I don't see how anything whatsoever was gained from knowing that. I also don't understand how your particular dislike of the AE-L button is part of the "evolution" of Pentax cameras or this community. When I buy a new camera, I realize it is going to be different than the old and it would be silly for me to expect otherwise. Therefore, I tend to evolve towards the new camera rather than sitting around advocating the new camera to evolve towards me.

stewart
02-25-2008, 02:17 AM   #19
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I think the point Mathias is trying to make is that the Minolta way of handling AE-L might be better suited to some people. I don't use AE-L much myself, but I can imagine a situation where you want to shoot a few shots using the same exposure, but it takes more than just a few seconds between the shots. This would require repeated re-aiming the camera and pressing AE-L to acquire the exposure for each shot. If instead the camera remembers the locked exposure setting for longer than the duration the meter is active, this problem would be solved.

The problem with the pentax approach is that the camera is throwing away information (the locked exposure value) between exposures, and it may be non-trivial to acquire this information. If on the other hand, you don't want the camera to use the locked information from the previous exposure, all you need to do is hit the AE-L button (which, I would argue, is trivial).

This could also be a problem even for a single exposure, if it takes more than a few seconds between when you lock the exposure, and take the picture. I can imagine someone going through a complicated procedure to set the exposure (using a gray card etc), and then setting the camera on a tripod and framing the subject, which takes longer than the few seconds the meter is on, and the locked exposure setting is lost by the time you are ready to take the picture.

Of course, all this is irrelevant in the Manual mode, but then you have to keep switching modes every time you want to lock exposure and take multiple shots.


Last edited by ankit; 02-25-2008 at 02:22 AM.
02-25-2008, 02:21 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Such as? So far, all I've learned is that you don't like the way Pentax does the AE-L button. Of course, since I don't work for Pentax, don't have any influence in the design of Pentax cameras, and don't have any dispute with the AE-L button as is, I don't see how anything whatsoever was gained from knowing that. I also don't understand how your particular dislike of the AE-L button is part of the "evolution" of Pentax cameras or this community. When I buy a new camera, I realize it is going to be different than the old and it would be silly for me to expect otherwise. Therefore, I tend to evolve towards the new camera rather than sitting around advocating the new camera to evolve towards me.

stewart
Great point made Stewart. It's like people coming into a neighborhood buying a house knowing a factory is down the street and after a month they try to have the factory shut down because they think there is to much noise and traffic.
If you research before you buy and know there are differences you either have to accept the differences or don't buy. Now I'm not being nasty here. It's just the expectations of some one wanting a product to change just for them. It's not going to happen. I have been a Pentax shooter for 40 years I know the cameras I shoot with and I know how each will perform. In the past 40 years Pentax has done very well in the design of each camera. The changes are ones that needed to be changed, but never has any company given each buyer exactly what they want. To do this would mean manufacturing a camera to each buyers specs, and the cost for that would be to high to sell any camera and profit in any market.
02-25-2008, 02:26 AM   #21
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Phtottramp, that's why they have custom functions on these cameras - so that you can tweak the camera to suit your style. Also, if you look at the poll results on the top, at least 30% of the people who responded agree with the poster, so clearly he is not alone!

What I would really like is for some company to "open-source" at least the user-interface part of their firmware so that people can tweak cameras to their heart's content. Somehow I don't see this happening anytime soon

Last edited by ankit; 02-25-2008 at 02:31 AM.
02-25-2008, 05:33 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by ankit Quote
I think the point Mathias is trying to make is that the Minolta way of handling AE-L might be better suited to some people. I don't use AE-L much myself, but I can imagine a situation where you want to shoot a few shots using the same exposure, ...(snip)...

Oh, I understand the point Mathias is trying to make. However, I simply don't agree with the premise because, for every argument in favor of his (the Minolta) method, I could just as easily make an argument the other way. For example, you mention "a few shots using the same exposure" above. Granted, in that situation, his method might be slightly more convenient.

However, in every incident of using exposure lock with that method (exposure locked until manually unlocked), one would have to remember to unlock the exposure or the exposure for every subsequent image not of the same scene would be screwed up.

Now, in my book, ruined images due to the wrong (locked) exposure settings are far more inconvenient than the occasional need to press the AE-L button more than once to photograph the same scene (especially when the manual mode is far more ideal for that latter purpose).


QuoteQuote:
This could also be a problem even for a single exposure, if it takes more than a few seconds between when you lock the exposure, and take the picture. I can imagine someone going through a complicated procedure to set the exposure ...(snip)...

You seem to be forgetting the "Meter Operating Time" can be adjusted in the "Custom Settings" menu of the K10D to anytime between 10-30 seconds after the last action by the user is detected, and that simply tapping the shutter release button resets that countdown. Therefore, it is unlikely any delay, in composing or whatever, would pose all that much of an obstacle in this regard.

stewart

-

Last edited by stewart_photo; 02-25-2008 at 05:38 AM.
02-25-2008, 05:54 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ankit Quote
...(snip)... Also, if you look at the poll results on the top, at least 30% of the people who responded agree with the poster, so clearly he is not alone! ...(snip)...

That's simply because he rigged the poll to solicit the results he wanted. Few people use the AE-L button every day (part of the first option) and he doesn't explain what he specifically means by the AE-L should lock the exposure (the third option) until later in his long-winded OP. The AE-L button currently does lock the exposure, so naturally those familiar with this button are going to select that (without knowing he means something entirely different).

stewart

02-26-2008, 01:53 PM   #24
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Great response

...to my very modest undertaking of comparing a few buttons.

You are very serious photographers indeed.

The problem is I'm so busy now defending my right to even have an opinion on this matter that I don't get around to my next points, some of which are even quite favourable for Pentax. There might even be a round four and a five.

BTW, did you ever think about why Saabs don't have the shiftstick on the steering wheel anymore, or the Volkswagens don't have their engines rearmounted?

Because of the switchers.
02-26-2008, 03:32 PM   #25
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In the US, VWs don't have a rear mounted engine because they couldn't stay cool with all the added pollution contols required. Had nothing to do with switchers. The cars were very much loved by owners.
thanks
barondla
02-26-2008, 03:51 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by stewart_photo Quote
Now, in my book, ruined images due to the wrong (locked) exposure settings are far more inconvenient than the occasional need to press the AE-L button more than once to photograph the same scene (especially when the manual mode is far more ideal for that latter purpose).
-
I was a long time Minolta user and there have been so many times this has happened to me. I prefer the Pentax's application of AE-L because it is quick and simple.
02-26-2008, 06:28 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
...(snip)... The problem is I'm so busy now defending my right to even have an opinion on this matter that I don't get around to my next points, ...(snip)...

I don't think anyone here is questioning your right to have an opinion, so there really is nothing to defend, Kameraten. However, in the process of exercising your rights, expect others to do the same, some voicing opinions just as determinedly as you might express yours. You've made a good argument and it was a pleasure responding to it.

stewart
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