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02-25-2008, 11:25 AM   #1
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K10D opinion needed from canon 300d (Digital Rebel) users

No holy wars please ...

As a 300D Canon rebel owner looking for purchase of K10D ..

Would like to hear from people who used both canon 300d and K10D.

Questions:
#1.Have seen a lot of complains about K10D autofocus, how it compares to 300d?

#2 How K10D autofocus compares with Nikon D80/D200?

#3 anything else should I be concern?

02-25-2008, 11:28 AM   #2
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#1 - I've used it in low light conditions and it got an accurate focus 95% of the time.
#2 - Probably slower, but in most cases, the difference is negligable
#3 - I must warn you that Pentax lenses are of very high quality and have more than a reasonable price.
02-25-2008, 11:37 AM   #3
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I use the 300D at work, and K10D at home. I Prefer the K10D.

1. I have just as much problems focusing with the 300D as I do with K10D. The 300D is much faster and quieter though. But with the Pentax SDM lenses, the K10D now has it beat.

3. The controls on the K10D are much easier to use and logically placed compared to the 300D.

I also like the SD card over CF. I have bent the pins in my CF card reader before. No pins for the SD.

I had received my *ist DS the same week as the 300D at work. A co-worker (long time Nikon/Canon user/saleperson) even prefered the DS over the 300D. If that says anything.
02-25-2008, 11:42 AM   #4
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i would just like to point out that comparing the 300 to the k10d is a little unfair.

the 300 is just.. old and was canons attempt at entry level stuff

the K10D's direct canon competitior would be the 30D, which, respectfuly, is a wonderful camera that i have used (and by used i mean stole from my friend when we go out...) with great results.


anyway, compared to the 300, the k10d will rock your world... but i would steer towards the K100D Super.. hehe, more night time usability thanks to cleaner high ISO images (not to mention an option to push for 3200)

02-25-2008, 12:44 PM   #5
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I had a K10D and I just sold all my Pentax stuff for a 40D outfit.
What I liked about Pentax -
-Ergonomics (K10D/Battery grip sooooo comfy in my paws)
-Lenses were amazing optically (pretty much had the DA* 50-135mm, FA 50mm f/1.4 & 35mm f/2.0, Tamron 28-75mm, and Sigma 10-20mm)
-I loved having a stabilized sensor.

What I didn't like about Pentax
-Autofocus could be slow in lower light situations. It would eventually get focus, but would "hunt & peck" a bit. Some lenses were better, some were worse.
-HIGH ISO/Low-light was kinda fugly looking

So the 40D pretty much addressed all the dislikes about Pentax. With my 85mm f/1.8 I could snap focus in an instant in a dimly lit room using the high-precision f/2.8 center AF sensor (something like ISO3200, 1/50s, f/1.8). My FA 50mm f/1.4 would have failed miserably in this situation. Also, ISO1000-1600 is pretty good, 3200 ok. But still much better to me than the K10D. Now I'm pretty sure the 40D has a MUCH better AF system than any of the Rebels, so keep that in mind.

I still did get great pictures with my Pentax setup, I just had to work within its limitations.
02-25-2008, 12:59 PM   #6
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I understood 300d and K10d are not competitors, but I'm looking from upgrade point of view and want to make sure I don't loose needed functionality (fast autofocus). I shoot mostly my kids in indoor environment with flash.

So SDM lenses are as fast focusing as canon/nikon lenses?


Now about K100D, I thought it is smaller brother of K10D. Are you saying it has better hight ISO performance? Due to smaller number of pixels on same sized sensor?

I've looked at canon 40d reviews and I feel it's price/performance not as good comparing to K10d. Dynamic range and more fps are only pluses I see.

Nikon looks better but cost much more and doesnt' have sensor cleaning (not counting D300).
Any feedback on Nikon's (80/200) autofocus performance?


Now, about pentax lenses. For someone who used to Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 all the time, what would be recomendations ?
I'm looking at new DA* 50-135 lenses which looks good, but what about wider part of range?
Looks like only choices are:
1. new DA* 16-50 - based on Tokina 16-50 review and forum comments are not that good.
2. 16-45 f/4 - promising from IQ based on reviews but high CA. Any real life complains about CA?
02-25-2008, 01:08 PM   #7
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Honestly, I find the AF performance of the 40D vs. the K10D to be like night and day! Of course the 40D is ~$1200 and the K10D is ~$600, so..........
The 50-135mm focused ok, it was quiet, but my EF-S 17-85mm is soooooooooooo much faster.

OK, to get down to it, IF you can afford it, I think a 40D setup with some nice Canon (maybe Sigma EX as well) glass will be much better with AF/FPS than a similar K10D setup.

But if you want Pentax, I think a Sigma 10-20mm, Tamron 28-75mm, and DA* 50-135mm combo is killer! I had it, it got me GREAT shots, I just found the AF performance a little more sluggish than what I am getting with my 40D. AGAIN - the 40D setup is ALOT MORE MONEY....
So depending on your budget, and what lenses you already have for Canon.....

Oh, the I believe the SDM is similar to Canon's MicroUSM, NOT their really fast high-performance ring USM. My only two lenses for Canon are the EF-S 17-85mm and the 85mm f/1.8, both ring USM. I also have two Sigma HSMs on the way (10-20mm and 30mm f/1.4)

I guess for image quality, you can't go wrong with Pentax. For alot of shooters the AF performance will be fine. I just decided I had the means to do a BIG upgrade to get that extra bit of autofocus performance. And I shot a birthday party this weekend, and that performance really paid off. I'd see a kid doing something cute, and I'd be able to fire off an infocus shot before the kid stopped being cute.

To be fair, optically my Tamron 28-75mm (for Pentax) smokes the EF-S 17-85mm. And the 50-135mm was also incredible.
02-25-2008, 01:11 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
I understood 300d and K10d are not competitors, but I'm looking from upgrade point of view and want to make sure I don't loose needed functionality (fast autofocus). I shoot mostly my kids in indoor environment with flash.
with light, the AF is good, its when things get dark, the pentax AF sensor (not the af mechanism per-se) starts to bog down since it cant catch a point of contrast.

if you are going to be using flash, AF is going to be easier, altho if you get an external flash, the red light will help focus.

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
So SDM lenses are as fast focusing as canon/nikon lenses?
the SDM mechanism allows the lens itself to focus just as fast as any canon or nikon lens, the limiting factor is the AF sensor itself.


QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
Now about K100D, I thought it is smaller brother of K10D. Are you saying it has better hight ISO performance? Due to smaller number of pixels on same sized sensor?
yes, larger pixels make for better noise control, and it has been shown that the K100D is better than the K10D at ISO1600 (i myself can show you tons of very usable ISO1600 shots), and ISO3200 is just a bonus (i have some usable iso3200 shots too...)

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
Now, about pentax lenses. For someone who used to Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 all the time, what would be recomendations ?
get a tamron 28-75 f2.8 for a pentax!

02-25-2008, 01:38 PM   #9
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I've shot many usable shots on my K10D at ISO 1600, as long as exposure was adequate.
The Tamron 28-75 and/or Pentax FA50/1.4 is a must for low light portraits. The Tammy is now my stay on lens in case I need something wider (then I use the DA 16-45). The combo produce awesome pictures.

Better off comparing 300D with K100D and 30D/40D with K10D.
But again, consider price. 40D's focusing is quieter and fast, but if you have an SDM lens with the K10D I'm sure you'll be blown away at the performance. Have you considered using a flash with AF assist for low light conditions?
02-25-2008, 01:54 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by egordon99 Quote
The 50-135mm focused ok, it was quiet, but my EF-S 17-85mm is soooooooooooo much faster.
The EF-S 17-85mm + 40D is the fastest autofocus combo out there other than the Oly E3+12-60mm.

The EF-S 17-85mm is also one of the crappiest zoom-lenses in the world concerning IQ.

So what you are facing is the following:

If you value focusing speed above all, by all means get the 40D + 17-85mm combo.

If you value IQ and high-accuracy AF a lot and do not mind a below average AF-speed (yes the K10D beats the 40D in IQ if you shoot RAW). Get a K10D

Finally, if high-ISO shooting is your preference and money is no option, the K20D kicks the 40D's ass in that department.

Last edited by Shashinki; 02-25-2008 at 02:24 PM.
02-25-2008, 06:02 PM   #11
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I upgraded from the 300D to the K10D for the manual features with manual lenses and SR.

To compare the AF's is a touchy matter IMO. My one USM lens has about 45 degrees of focus ring travel, while my one FA lens has a little over 180 degrees. The FA simply takes more time to travel from minimum to infinty. Good for fine adjustments, which are a pain with the Canon.

I will hold off on a USM/SDM comparison cause I don't have an SDM yet.

All I can say is: The K10 is sweet. I'm glad I upgraded even though the shutter sound bugs me.
02-25-2008, 07:30 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
No holy wars please ...

As a 300D Canon rebel owner looking for purchase of K10D ..

Would like to hear from people who used both canon 300d and K10D.

Questions:
#1.Have seen a lot of complains about K10D autofocus, how it compares to 300d?

#2 How K10D autofocus compares with Nikon D80/D200?

#3 anything else should I be concern?
Don't get me wrong - I'm a proud Pentax user, but I'm well aware of the limitations of my gear.

In a straight shootout in low-light between the 300D and the K10D, the Canon beats Pentax flat on AF speed and accuracy.

In real life photography situations ? The K10D AF is pretty usable in low-light, with a bit of knowledge and technique - focus lock on another object with better contrast, use AF-C, use the AF540 flash in AF-assist mode etc.

If low-light AF speed and accuracy are Very important to you, 300D is clearly the choice.

Another area the 300D is clearly better is Flash exposure accuracy. The E300D's flash exposure system is biased towards giving brighter exposure to dark areas, for the same scene, which a lot of users prefer. There is a slightly higher risk of overexposure, but generally the 300D's Flash shots rarely need PP to correct the exposure.
02-25-2008, 11:49 PM   #13
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I've used the 300D and now own the K10D. I've chosen the K10D over the 400D. Goto a store with both cameras and just hold each and look through the viewfinder, you'll know why I chose the K10D. Only two things that I am angry about.

1. Auto White balance is nearly useless indoors
2. Tamron now offer their 17-50mm F/2.8 lense with Pentax mount(one of the reason I wanted the 400D over the K10D. I settled for the 16-45 F/4) What bad timing for me.

CA for 16-45mm is not too bad, at least on my copy, at least not in prints, if your pixel peeping you will find it.

Last edited by Ralf; 02-25-2008 at 11:57 PM.
02-26-2008, 11:02 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
I shoot mostly my kids in indoor environment with flash.
That is a challenge for K10D. I have K10D and 2.5 year old girl, so it is real life experience for me

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
So SDM lenses are as fast focusing as canon/nikon lenses?
SDM lenses do not improve AF speed. They are just silent.

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
Nikon looks better but cost much more and doesnt' have sensor cleaning (not counting D300).
Don't look at it as an essential feature. It's not really effective.

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
Any feedback on Nikon's (80/200) autofocus performance?
AF is fasted than K10D.

QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
2. 16-45 f/4 - promising from IQ based on reviews but high CA. Any real life complains about CA?
Well, not in my real life Using this superb lens already two years...
02-27-2008, 08:45 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andrews Quote
No holy wars please ...

As a 300D Canon rebel owner looking for purchase of K10D ..

Would like to hear from people who used both canon 300d and K10D.

Questions:
#1.Have seen a lot of complains about K10D autofocus, how it compares to 300d?

#2 How K10D autofocus compares with Nikon D80/D200?

#3 anything else should I be concern?

Go for it. I upgraded from the 300D and love it. The built in SR really makes a difference. The K10D is a more complicated with a lot of options relative to the rebel. The 300d is/was a wonderful camera. I think one of the other posters was confusing the 300 with the 30d with respect to AF speed and accuracy. My experience with the two bodies is that the K10D with its kit was able to lock focus in low light without hunting with low contrast scenes (like a beige wall) unlike my old rebel with either my Tamron 28-75 2.8 or 100 2.8 macro. I attribute that (right or wrong) to the cross-hair sensors. I don't shoot sports, so any difference in speed of focus I have not really noticed. Of course, the AF speed is going to be dependent on which lens you use and whether you are using a USM/SDM. The screw drive is slower and louder but not really that bad. Similar to Canon's micromotor lenses.

no experience with the Nikon

I was most taken back at the poor jpeg quality white balance. You can always shoot RAW. If that is your plan than no worries. If you plan on using jpeg, plan on a lot of post processing or custom white balance. Here is one area that will jump out at you immediately (much more so than AF accuracy and speed). I am happy with my decision with Pentax but this is one area that even a 5+ year old camera from Canon out performs it.

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