K20d Dng Raw

davemdsn · 02-27-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by a a i b

Yep, DNG files open in Aperture 2. Boy are they big.

I'm wondering about the color tweaking comment. Just a preliminary impression, but I do think tweaking the white balance with DNG is much harder than with the PEF. Anyone else see this?

Given how long it took Apple to support Nikon's D300, I think it could be awhile before PEF support comes to Aperture.

I hope that the D300 delay was only because they were busy prepping for the 2.0 release and that support will come quicker for new camera now. I hope. I did submit a request. In the mean time, the DNG does open and looks good so far so I can keep my workflow going.

davemdsn · 02-27-2008, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by distudio

Shoot PEF and convert to DNG in PPL, the DNG files though huge will open without colour errors in ACR (they can of course be compressed using the Adobe DNG convertor). It's simply the price of being an early adopter.

I am finding the same results with the K20 in ACR/Lightroom that I found with the K10 when it came out. They open just fine and look fine, but there is a slight color hue that I couldn't get rid of (speaking of K10), slightly green in the shadow. I was able to fix it with the profile panel, but when ACR was updated to include K10 support the need for the profile went away because the colors were right on. So far I have the same impression of the K20 and hope that it fixes the same way with the next ACR update.

kasey · 02-29-2008, 09:52 AM

regarding the comments on color being off with DNG -- forgive me but i'm not real technical.

have been shooting DNG with the K20D for a week, going to lightroom and then to CS2, i've been astounded by the color and have rarely had to do anything to the images except lighten a few maybe 1/2 stop.
if you wish to see start at the flower on this page In Box Photo Gallery by karen clanin at pbase.com
and go forward to page 20, these are all from the K20D.

i know, i need something more than flowers, LOL.

kasey

davemdsn · 02-29-2008, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by kasey

regarding the comments on color being off with DNG -- forgive me but i'm not real technical.

have been shooting DNG with the K20D for a week, going to lightroom and then to CS2, i've been astounded by the color and have rarely had to do anything to the images except lighten a few maybe 1/2 stop.
if you wish to see start at the flower on this page In Box Photo Gallery by karen clanin at pbase.com
and go forward to page 20, these are all from the K20D.

i know, i need something more than flowers, LOL.

kasey

The colors look fine, it's the numbers that are off. If you look at the image in the develop module and look at the WB settings you will notice that the magenta tint is around +70 in most images. Most daylight images have a tint of around -10 to 0. If your image does look fine then this doesn't matter too much, but if you wanted to use the WB settings in Lr, like daylight or shade, your colors will be way off, making the presets worthless. Moving the sliders manually still works.

This happened with the K10 DNGs as well. Once Adobe added support for the camera the numbers went back to normal and the presets worked fine.

Delgado · 02-29-2008, 05:05 PM

Results with DNG under artificial light using tungsten and custom white balances are appalling at present (a strong yellow/green cast and intense blue noise in dark areas that gets worse with each increase in ISO). I did not have any problems with DNGs under daylight. Forum member Dave Kitson suggested shooting PEF and then converting them to DNG via Pentax Photo browser. Aside from a need to tweak the reds as he warned, it works well and at least allows me to continue using RAW at the trivial cost of a slightly longer workflow.

Robert Barnett · 02-29-2008, 06:47 PM

I have had no problems with DNG files from my K20D. I do use Adobe DNG Converter to compress them as it cuts their size in nearly half. I have used both the DNG's right from the camera and after DNG Converter compression and no issues of any kind. This in Lightroom and Adobe Camera RAW.

Robert

kasey · 02-29-2008, 08:00 PM

i've had do trought with DNG files in lightroom at all.

there are 12 photos taken with the K20D at my pbase site starting on page 19 with the flowers and over onto page 20. all raw DNG processed in lightroom and converted to jpb in CS2.

kasey
In Box Photo Gallery by karen clanin at pbase.com

Noisychip · 03-02-2008, 08:40 AM

Just tried some downloaded K20d RAWs with DCRAW.

Both DNG and PEF worked perfectly.

Rico · 03-02-2008, 11:49 AM

What is the difference in file size out of the camera for DNG and PEF with the K20D?

Noisychip · 03-02-2008, 01:33 PM

I can only tell from some samples I've downloaded; PEF about 13 MB, DNG about 23.

Delgado · 03-02-2008, 03:35 PM

I'd be interested in knowing if everyone who has found the K20 DNGs to be OK has tried exposing under tungsten and/or custom white balance under tungsten light. My daylight DNGs appear to be OK - the only exception being that the black and white filter effects are lost when the files are opened in CS3's Adobe Bridge or Adobe camera Raw.

Rico · 03-02-2008, 05:13 PM

Thanks NoisyChip. That is about the same size difference with the K10D. I thought the DNG's were going to be smaller with the K20D.

Delgado I do not think the in camera filter effects are applied to the RAW files at all only to the corresponding JPG.

jeffkrol · 03-02-2008, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Rico

What is the difference in file size out of the camera for DNG and PEF with the K20D?

Best to let someone else explain it:
OPP's

Originally posted by Rico

Thanks NoisyChip. That is about the same size difference with the K10D. I thought the DNG's were going to be smaller with the K20D.

Pentax doesn't bother to compress the DNG files. Personally I wish they wouldn't compress the PEF either... My unpopular opinion of course.
As to colors ect. may be a minor error by Pentax. Maybe not

Seems K10 users had the same problem.....
Adobe Forums - ACR update for Pentax K20d
One more relevent thread:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-software/21881-acr-camera...they-come.html

Rico · 03-02-2008, 06:45 PM

Jeffkrol I am not sure what you are explaining. Are these numbers for the K10D files or K20D? They sound more like what my K10D delivers in file size. I just wanted to know how big the PEF and DNG files are being written by the K20D.

jeffkrol · 03-02-2008, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Rico

Jeffkrol I am not sure what you are explaining. Are these numbers for the K10D files or K20D? They sound more like what my K10D delivers in file size. I just wanted to know how big the PEF and DNG files are being written by the K20D.

Thought I grabbed the K20 specs (which basically scale up from the k10 specs) but I guess I was wrong.
Re: K20d DNG vs pef size: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
K20D's DNG's are not compressed and are about 23 to 25 MBytes in size (variable due to the embedded full size JPEG).

K20D PEF's are losslessly compressed exactly like the K10D's PEF's were, and thus will be about 1.4 times as big as the K10D's were at between 10+ Mbytes and about 18 MBytes, averaging perhaps 16 MBytes. I guess it would be possible to run a PEF right up to the same file size as the DNG's if the image was of nothing other than high-frequency high-contrast random noise, fur, or very fine somewhat random details.

02-29-2008, 05:05 PM	#20
Delgado Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London Posts: 71	DNG unreliable under artificial light at present Results with DNG under artificial light using tungsten and custom white balances are appalling at present (a strong yellow/green cast and intense blue noise in dark areas that gets worse with each increase in ISO). I did not have any problems with DNGs under daylight. Forum member Dave Kitson suggested shooting PEF and then converting them to DNG via Pentax Photo browser. Aside from a need to tweak the reds as he warned, it works well and at least allows me to continue using RAW at the trivial cost of a slightly longer workflow.

02-29-2008, 06:47 PM	#21
Robert Barnett Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 65	K20D DNG and Adobe I have had no problems with DNG files from my K20D. I do use Adobe DNG Converter to compress them as it cuts their size in nearly half. I have used both the DNG's right from the camera and after DNG Converter compression and no issues of any kind. This in Lightroom and Adobe Camera RAW. Robert

03-02-2008, 05:58 PM	#28
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by Rico What is the difference in file size out of the camera for DNG and PEF with the K20D? Best to let someone else explain it: OPP's Originally posted by Rico Thanks NoisyChip. That is about the same size difference with the K10D. I thought the DNG's were going to be smaller with the K20D. Pentax doesn't bother to compress the DNG files. Personally I wish they wouldn't compress the PEF either... My unpopular opinion of course. As to colors ect. may be a minor error by Pentax. Maybe not Seems K10 users had the same problem..... Adobe Forums - ACR update for Pentax K20d One more relevent thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-software/21881-acr-camera...they-come.html Last edited by jeffkrol; 03-02-2008 at 07:12 PM.

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02-27-2008, 09:30 PM	#16
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	Originally posted by a a i b Yep, DNG files open in Aperture 2. Boy are they big. I'm wondering about the color tweaking comment. Just a preliminary impression, but I do think tweaking the white balance with DNG is much harder than with the PEF. Anyone else see this? Given how long it took Apple to support Nikon's D300, I think it could be awhile before PEF support comes to Aperture. I hope that the D300 delay was only because they were busy prepping for the 2.0 release and that support will come quicker for new camera now. I hope. I did submit a request. In the mean time, the DNG does open and looks good so far so I can keep my workflow going.

02-27-2008, 09:34 PM	#17
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	Originally posted by distudio Shoot PEF and convert to DNG in PPL, the DNG files though huge will open without colour errors in ACR (they can of course be compressed using the Adobe DNG convertor). It's simply the price of being an early adopter. I am finding the same results with the K20 in ACR/Lightroom that I found with the K10 when it came out. They open just fine and look fine, but there is a slight color hue that I couldn't get rid of (speaking of K10), slightly green in the shadow. I was able to fix it with the profile panel, but when ACR was updated to include K10 support the need for the profile went away because the colors were right on. So far I have the same impression of the K20 and hope that it fixes the same way with the next ACR update.

02-29-2008, 09:52 AM	#18
kasey Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: california Posts: 75	regarding the comments on color being off with DNG -- forgive me but i'm not real technical. have been shooting DNG with the K20D for a week, going to lightroom and then to CS2, i've been astounded by the color and have rarely had to do anything to the images except lighten a few maybe 1/2 stop. if you wish to see start at the flower on this page In Box Photo Gallery by karen clanin at pbase.com and go forward to page 20, these are all from the K20D. i know, i need something more than flowers, LOL. kasey

02-29-2008, 04:14 PM	#19
davemdsn Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Boise, Idaho Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,413	Originally posted by kasey regarding the comments on color being off with DNG -- forgive me but i'm not real technical. have been shooting DNG with the K20D for a week, going to lightroom and then to CS2, i've been astounded by the color and have rarely had to do anything to the images except lighten a few maybe 1/2 stop. if you wish to see start at the flower on this page In Box Photo Gallery by karen clanin at pbase.com and go forward to page 20, these are all from the K20D. i know, i need something more than flowers, LOL. kasey The colors look fine, it's the numbers that are off. If you look at the image in the develop module and look at the WB settings you will notice that the magenta tint is around +70 in most images. Most daylight images have a tint of around -10 to 0. If your image does look fine then this doesn't matter too much, but if you wanted to use the WB settings in Lr, like daylight or shade, your colors will be way off, making the presets worthless. Moving the sliders manually still works. This happened with the K10 DNGs as well. Once Adobe added support for the camera the numbers went back to normal and the presets worked fine.

02-29-2008, 08:00 PM	#22
kasey Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: california Posts: 75	i've had do trought with DNG files in lightroom at all. there are 12 photos taken with the K20D at my pbase site starting on page 19 with the flowers and over onto page 20. all raw DNG processed in lightroom and converted to jpb in CS2. kasey In Box Photo Gallery by karen clanin at pbase.com

03-02-2008, 08:40 AM	#23
Noisychip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282	Just tried some downloaded K20d RAWs with DCRAW. Both DNG and PEF worked perfectly.

03-02-2008, 11:49 AM	#24
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	What is the difference in file size out of the camera for DNG and PEF with the K20D?

03-02-2008, 01:33 PM	#25
Noisychip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282	I can only tell from some samples I've downloaded; PEF about 13 MB, DNG about 23.

03-02-2008, 03:35 PM	#26
Delgado Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: London Posts: 71	I'd be interested in knowing if everyone who has found the K20 DNGs to be OK has tried exposing under tungsten and/or custom white balance under tungsten light. My daylight DNGs appear to be OK - the only exception being that the black and white filter effects are lost when the files are opened in CS3's Adobe Bridge or Adobe camera Raw.

03-02-2008, 05:13 PM	#27
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	Thanks NoisyChip. That is about the same size difference with the K10D. I thought the DNG's were going to be smaller with the K20D. Delgado I do not think the in camera filter effects are applied to the RAW files at all only to the corresponding JPG.

03-02-2008, 06:45 PM	#29
Rico Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,205	Jeffkrol I am not sure what you are explaining. Are these numbers for the K10D files or K20D? They sound more like what my K10D delivers in file size. I just wanted to know how big the PEF and DNG files are being written by the K20D.

03-02-2008, 07:11 PM	#30
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by Rico Jeffkrol I am not sure what you are explaining. Are these numbers for the K10D files or K20D? They sound more like what my K10D delivers in file size. I just wanted to know how big the PEF and DNG files are being written by the K20D. Thought I grabbed the K20 specs (which basically scale up from the k10 specs) but I guess I was wrong. Re: K20d DNG vs pef size: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review K20D's DNG's are not compressed and are about 23 to 25 MBytes in size (variable due to the embedded full size JPEG). K20D PEF's are losslessly compressed exactly like the K10D's PEF's were, and thus will be about 1.4 times as big as the K10D's were at between 10+ Mbytes and about 18 MBytes, averaging perhaps 16 MBytes. I guess it would be possible to run a PEF right up to the same file size as the DNG's if the image was of nothing other than high-frequency high-contrast random noise, fur, or very fine somewhat random details.