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03-01-2008, 09:50 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by frogger Quote
Why multiply by .6 then by 1.25?? Why not just .75?
discount plus markup

03-01-2008, 09:57 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by clawhamemr Quote
Does anybody here remember when Canon brought out the Rebel at a "stunning" price of $999? Regardless of what everybody else may or may not be offering at whatever price, let's reflect a moment on just how darn lucky we are to get any of these cameras for under $1000.
I remember. But back then breaking the $1000 barrier was something new. Now I agree with OP that when entry level camera can be purchased somewhere between $400-500, and you look at current Pentax offerings, you might be disappointed. I have the very entry level isdDL and I like it. It suits me well and with some knowledge (and good lens) it can take nice pictures. Now, if I were just getting into DSLR world (believe me there are still people with just P&S cameras), I might be considering other brands if Pentax cheapest model is $800.
03-01-2008, 10:02 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Hi twinda1

Your comment made collapse in a fit of giggles when you said:

Best regards
Richard
Oh, you guys missed my point entirely. The tone of my post was mostly to offset's Gooshin's implication that we are at Pentax's mercy and should be grateful for any tidbits tossed our way.

And I disagree with the assertion that Pentax offers the best product for the general market. Call me an elitist, but the vast majority of people just wanting to take good pictures of their families are better served with the low-end Nikon. I offer as proof: i-TTL vs P-TTL and so-so JPEG processing.
03-01-2008, 10:09 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
go, find another brand, come back when you're satisfied with your purchase of another system and tell me how wrong i am.
You're preaching to the choir. It's not me you need to convince, it's the person comparing current entry level Nikon and Pentax offerings.

Take a deep breath: we both adore our Pentax cameras and lenses.

03-02-2008, 02:53 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
of course you wouldnt, they take identical pictures!
The double dials alone makes the k10d superior in usage, so even if the pictures turns out identical I wouldn't call the k200 "a refined k10d".
03-02-2008, 08:14 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
The double dials alone makes the k10d superior in usage, so even if the pictures turns out identical I wouldn't call the k200 "a refined k10d".
so little dinky dials make or break a camera now?
03-02-2008, 08:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
so little dinky dials make or break a camera now?
Yes.
Let me guess, you donít have the double dials?
03-02-2008, 10:14 AM   #38
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Hi Gooshin

Concerning your slightly caustic statement that:
QuoteQuote:
little dinky dials make or break a camera now ?
Well all I can say is that in real world usage, I find that extra "little dinky dial" utterly invaluable for making speedy adjustments (without the irritating necessity of delving into time-wasting menus) and I'd simply like to second Gimbal's sentiment about it's usefulness. Regrettably I don't know which camera you currently own, but I'm pretty convinced that a few days thorough usage of the K10D/K20D body might see you adopting a slightly different attitude to that additional e-dial. Indeed it was this brilliant ergonomic design feature (amongst many others) which tipped the balance in my eventual decision to purchase a Pentax K10D and thus far I have had no regrets whatsoever in doing so.....just my $0.02 worth !

Best regards
Richard

03-02-2008, 10:37 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
so you too want new technology for the price of old technology?
No, I said nothing of the sort.

But tell you what, put your money where your mouth is. If 400 euros means so little to you, Paypal it over my way, I'll buy Pentax product with it, and produce pictures I can share with everyone through an open license. Everyone wins.

OK?
03-02-2008, 11:23 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
so little dinky dials make or break a camera now?
I'm with Confused and others here. The two e-dials on the K10D make a major difference. My little *ist DS takes lovely photos but I find myself trying to avoid using it now, because I find it so annoying to have to go to special trouble to adjust the aperture in M mode.

But let me try to provide a different perspective here, that gives each side of this discussion its due.

In the past it was possible to distinguish the capture medium (film) from the body as a control mechanism. A good photographer used to be able to put a good lens on a cheap camera and take great photos, using high-quality film. These days the control mechanism has the capture medium (the sensor) built into it. This in itself is unfortunate, as it makes it harder to evaluate the elements of the photographic process separately, the way we used to be able to.

But when we compare the K200D and the K10D, as I understand it, the capture medium is the same, so the difference really does boil down to the ergonomics of the two bodies. In well over a year now of listening to people talk about the K10D, I can only remember one time when a user who had actually had a K10D in his (or her) hands for more than a day felt like going back to the K100D, and if I recall correctly, that was because that user felt that the K10D was just a little too big. Everybody else whose posts I've read or to whom I've spoken seems to agree that the K10D's design is brilliant. Even "objective" reviewers (I'm thinking of Sean Reid) have noted that the K10D has a lot of brilliant usability touches, that make it a pleasure to work with the camera.

I think the two e-dials are among the most important of these usability improvements. FOR ME, the two e-dials (as Gimbal said) alone make the K10D "superior in usage." Confused and many others will agree. If money were no issue, I think everybody would agree.

Now, I hasten to add, that money is an issue, if we compare the cost of the original K100D (or K100D Super) to the cost of the original K10D, or if we compare the cost of the K200D to the K20D. The extra e-dial does seem to add to the cost of the camera, and I'm not sure that the improvement offered by two e-dials matters to all users. I think the K10D's superior ergonomics really matter most to photographers who take a lot of photographs and who need to be thinking constantly about changes in the light that require changes to the settings--like wedding and event photographers, and sports photographers. For these photographers, a small increase in operating efficiency is worth paying hundreds of dollars for. I'd add further that the two e-dials in particular will matter much more to photographers who do the bulk of their shooting in M mode (or TAv) than to those who use Tv or Av heavily. If you use P or one of the two main priority modes (Tv or Av) most of the time, and/or if you're not usually in a big hurry to take the next shot, then the two e-dials may not be a big enough deal to justify the extra expense.

Ah, but if you're comparing the K200D at, say, $800, to a K10D that costs the same or less, then I honestly can't think of any reason you'd want to buy a K200D. Eventually the K10Ds will be sold out and you will be choosing between the K200D and the K20D that costs a lot more. But right now, it seems a no-brainer.

So, no, the dials don't make or break the camera, if you are thinking only of the camera's one-shot performance. I've taken some gosh-awful shots with my K10D, and I have taken some really sweet photos with my *ist DS (and with the K100D I owned previously). But if you look beyond the question of whether camera A, in ideal conditions, can take as good a photo as camera B, in the same ideal conditions, and start asking yourself questions about performance throughout the shoot, then the two e-dials might indeed "make" a big difference. A single bullet from a revolver can kill a person as dead as a single bullet from a machine gun. But if you're trying to fight off a dozen attackers, you'd probably prefer to have a machine gun.

Will
03-02-2008, 12:02 PM   #41
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Hi Will

Unfortunately due to current legislative restrictions, you are probably aware that machine-guns are somewhat difficult to lay one's hands on over here, unless you happen to have criminal underworld connections. Therefore the next best thing might perhaps be to obtain one of the latest C***n 1DS Mk III's, as according to the official specification sheets it's:

QuoteQuote:
The world's fastest digital machine-gun: shooting up to 10 bullets per second, with a burst rate up to 110 full-resolution armour-piercing shells !
(with just a modicum of 'artistic licence' taken with the facts, you understand....lol !

Best regards
Richard

Last edited by Confused; 03-02-2008 at 12:09 PM.
03-02-2008, 12:49 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Confused Quote
Unfortunately due to current legislative restrictions, you are probably aware that machine-guns are somewhat difficult to lay one's hands on over here,...
Richard,

Yes, sorry. I forget about the hardships that must be endured by our cousins on the other side of the pond. Here in Texas, we can pick up machine guns at the grocery store.

Will

P.S. I am resisting the urge to put a smiley face in there, but it occurs that there may be people who don't realize that .... Oh, hell, I'll resist the urge.
03-02-2008, 01:00 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote

Ah, but if you're comparing the K200D at, say, $800, to a K10D that costs the same or less, then I honestly can't think of any reason you'd want to buy a K200D. Eventually the K10Ds will be sold out and you will be choosing between the K200D and the K20D that costs a lot more. But right now, it seems a no-brainer.

Will
It's been rumored that Samsung plans on continuing to offer the GX 10. If that is true and B & H keep selling it at $649 with the kit lens, how low will Pentax have to go on the K200D?
03-02-2008, 07:07 PM   #44
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I like the e dials

Got the K10D last week. Had used the k110D for nearly a year. I dont want to use the K110D again. The e dials make things so much easier.

Guess what I bought another K10D for $410 shipped. So if you look you will find it.

Thanks

Tasha
03-02-2008, 07:17 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
No, I said nothing of the sort.

But tell you what, put your money where your mouth is. If 400 euros means so little to you, Paypal it over my way, I'll buy Pentax product with it, and produce pictures I can share with everyone through an open license. Everyone wins.

OK?
so now i'm supposed to pay people off so they can agree with me? LOL
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