In defense of Pentax AF...

Snowcat · 03-02-2008, 06:34 AM

Our AF is extremely accurate. I get out of focus shots like 1 of 100, maybe even less. Nikon's AF sure is faster, but it is less accurate, it happens, and happens quite often, that it says it's locked, but resulting shot is out of focus. (tested with my own hands in low light condition my GX-10 and friend's D200)

Personally I prefer accuracy.

Quote:

As an example - there is a thread on this site where someone - shooting weddings - was complaining (he would not like the word complaining) about how his Pentax "searched" for focus while shooting group shots. Were the people in the "group" at a dead run? If you focus on the people once - using the OK or AF button - why do you have to re-focus for each group shot? The simply does not make sense.

Perhaps those wedding group shots were taken with all 11 AF points turned on. Leave only one center AF point, this gives you more control, you know what exactly you are focusing on. And no AF seeking will occur.

bymy141 · 03-02-2008, 08:23 AM

Hum, when I learned how to make photos with my Ricoh Singlex TLS, 33 years ago, most photos I shot were in focus and right exposed. Today I have less focus problems than exposure problems. The focus system works pretty reliable and good, except for very low light situations.

I can remember the days that cameras like the K10D were called PHD cameras; [P]ush [H]ere [D]ummy! cameras.

Guess most people have forgotten to anticipate on a situation, are too lazy to work with the camera and blame the system if their exposure or focus are wrong.
To them: If you want a PHD! camera buy a P&S camera.

Don't blame the tool, blame yourself.

- Bert

RiceHigh · 03-02-2008, 09:15 AM

I really don't know what is about to defense here - IF Pentax's AF is really up to par with the competition.

Photographic skill is nothing to do with camera performance AS there is NO conflict between the two. In contrast, the best camera performance with the best user skills will yield the best results. But lacking either one of the above two or even both will yield poorer or worst results. No doubt here.

So, I just puzzle: what is the defense about?

I did use a MF SLR (a Ricoh XR-20sp) to shoot sports (fields and tracks) more than two decades ago and one time I had even no battery in my SLR when I shot in a swimming gala for the athletes (sport!) with a Ricoh XR-1 (full MF mechanical camera). Did I get the pics? Yes, I DID. But should I get better and more pictures if I had a modern better AF DSLR nowadays? I believe I do! Just think about it for anyone who still want to "defense". :-)

Originally posted by Tingchaleun

I have read many threads about Pentax's AF short comings. In particular, it's accuracy, speed in low lighting, etc... (you all know what i'm speaking of). I am writing this in Pentax's defense. I use my K100d, and when i am taking pictures (i.e. focussing) at weddings, casual shootings, portraitures, kids & pets, and even sports i have never felt (subjective) that i missed a shot due to the camera's lack of focussing speed. When in these situations - which ever it may be - it requires anticipation and actual photographer skill. You cannot simply rely on your camera to do all of the work. The camera is not a thinking object, you have to anticipate in which direction the play (in sports/children/pets) is going.

I have also used the 'newspaper's' D200, and the focussing speed on that is not substantially/significantly/a-world-of-difference faster than the K100d or the K10d. For those of you who object to this observation, i propose a scenario: think of how a well anticipated photographer (i.e. skilled) who gets his shot by getting into position is far better off than one who thinks photography is just pushing a button while her camera does all of the work.

On the K100d, it is possible to customize how you want to focus. What i mean is, i set my camera on Continuous mode and assign my focussing to the 'OK' button. This does make focussing more speedy because you are able to hold the focussing/OK button down and there is slightly less shutter lag when you do want to take the picture.

The serious photographer ought to concentrate on developing his skill sets rather than contributing the lack of 'good' shots on the camera and, in our case, the focussing speed. I am not objecting to the fact that a fast focussing speed is not helpful/wanted/desired. I just dont think that Pentax's focussing speed falls into the category of "slow" - and definitely not "slow" as to count it out when used to photograph kids, Pets and/or sports. Lastly, i highly recommend changing the way you shoot, including my suggestion in the paragraph above.

Tingster.

little laker · 03-02-2008, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by bymy141

Don't blame the tool, blame yourself.

- Bert

I often get he idea that the man behind the camera is the tool

Pentaxke · 03-02-2008, 10:46 AM

Having used a Nikon D200 (Fuji S5 pro actually, but both are the same camera with different sensors) for a couple of days, I must say I wasn't all too impressed with the AF of it. It's a bit faster, but not quiet as accurate... What you win on one side, you loose at the other side...

deejjjaaaa · 03-02-2008, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by bymy141

Guess most people have forgotten to anticipate on a situation...
....Don't blame the tool, blame yourself.

Don't blame the rapist - blame your short skirt (c) some of them

deejjjaaaa · 03-02-2008, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Pentaxke

Having used a Nikon D200 (Fuji S5 pro actually, but both are the same camera with different sensors) for a couple of days, I must say I wasn't all too impressed with the AF of it. It's a bit faster, but not quiet as accurate... What you win on one side, you loose at the other side...

what the system from ~2005 has to do w/ us in 2008 ? compare it w/ Pentax cameras from 2005.

flyer · 03-02-2008, 12:10 PM

Up to a point, I have to agree with RH. The problem is that people rely on technology for everything, so they don't bother learning the basics, or the "why".
With even skill, the technology will win all the time, but you will not find two persons with even skill, so it's important to learn the "how", the "why" and so on. It is the only way to improve your picture taking skill.

stewart_photo · 03-02-2008, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by nostatic

age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill (snip)

Wow. It's been a very long time since I last heard that one. Most stopped using it because it's an entirely false proverb - neither age and treachery nor youth and skill routinely go hand-in hand, and none of the four will always overcome the others.

stewart

stewart_photo · 03-02-2008, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by RiceHigh

I really don't know what is about to defense here - IF Pentax's AF is really up to par with the competition. (snip)

RiceHigh, your problem is consistently defining this issue as a race or competition without regard for anything else. By your standards, every feature of a car (camera, computer, television, house, building, road, or whatever) must be compared to the very best, with anything falling short (not "up to par with the competition") in any regard declared a failure. Of course, that's obviously not how most people (including yourself for things other than Pentax) weigh the value of things in the real world.

The "defense" you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge is that the AF system on current Pentax cameras is sufficient for most considering the good overall performance of that combined with the relatively low cost of the camera. Are there cameras availably which focus quicker? Certainly. Absolutely nobody is denying that. But that fact does not make the K10D, or whatever Pentax, a failure. Not anymore than cameras focusing quicker than your Canon EOS 5D mean it's a failure.

You clearly accept that latter premise when it comes to your Canon, but repeatedly refuse to extend the same courtesy to the Pentax cameras. I would ask why, but your bias is obvious.

stewart

m8o · 03-02-2008, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by m8o

Vegas has a line on how long until RH weighs in w/unabashed negativity and narry a positive thing to say...

Ah, #18, the winner.... Did anyone have #18? No? I guess the house wins. Not that I would know what he blabbered on about as he's on my ignore list, but does it matter? could it be any different then ever before? And all of you too could be much happier if you'd just put RH on your ignore list as well.

Yep, I thought there was value to his musings @ 1st back last summer/fall when I was new here, but after a while saw through the mist from his never ending heated/unhappy hot air; what a bitter SOB. Maybe if he just once had something to say about how to use a/the camera(s) we all discuss here, opinions could be different [fine, we heard your position; most don't agree; there's nothing new? ok, I've seen the same enough.] And that is on topic, and is the point. Thank you to many who describe your shooting techniques. Much appreciated.

Arpe · 03-02-2008, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by m8o

Not that I would know what he blabbered on about as he's on my ignore list...

Doesn't seem to work too well then does it?

m8o · 03-02-2008, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Arpe

Doesn't seem to work too well then does it?

folks keep quoting and replying...

But I was also just making a social observation to the OP topic too... this thread was like a sugar cube to a fly that is RH; there was no way he was letting it go by w/o a bite!

Me, I'm glad I can instead be categorized as predictable to always respond to a great picture of a dog or landscape or flower, etc., and POST MY OWN PHOTOGRAPHS too.

*isteve · 03-02-2008, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Tingchaleun

You guys are hilarious. Really. But are you guys raising a point for or against what i'm saying. I got kinda lost with the introduction of the AK.

No I quite support your point of view.

nostatic · 03-02-2008, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

Wow. It's been a very long time since I last heard that one. Most stopped using it because it's an entirely false proverb - neither age and treachery nor youth and skill routinely go hand-in hand, and none of the four will always overcome the others.

stewart

Evidently sense of humor lost out as well

I didn't realize that "old sayings" had to undergo ISO 9001 certification to retain usefulness...

03-02-2008, 09:15 AM	#18
RiceHigh Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 1,934	Defense What? I really don't know what is about to defense here - IF Pentax's AF is really up to par with the competition. Photographic skill is nothing to do with camera performance AS there is NO conflict between the two. In contrast, the best camera performance with the best user skills will yield the best results. But lacking either one of the above two or even both will yield poorer or worst results. No doubt here. So, I just puzzle: what is the defense about? I did use a MF SLR (a Ricoh XR-20sp) to shoot sports (fields and tracks) more than two decades ago and one time I had even no battery in my SLR when I shot in a swimming gala for the athletes (sport!) with a Ricoh XR-1 (full MF mechanical camera). Did I get the pics? Yes, I DID. But should I get better and more pictures if I had a modern better AF DSLR nowadays? I believe I do! Just think about it for anyone who still want to "defense". :-) Originally posted by Tingchaleun I have read many threads about Pentax's AF short comings. In particular, it's accuracy, speed in low lighting, etc... (you all know what i'm speaking of). I am writing this in Pentax's defense. I use my K100d, and when i am taking pictures (i.e. focussing) at weddings, casual shootings, portraitures, kids & pets, and even sports i have never felt (subjective) that i missed a shot due to the camera's lack of focussing speed. When in these situations - which ever it may be - it requires anticipation and actual photographer skill. You cannot simply rely on your camera to do all of the work. The camera is not a thinking object, you have to anticipate in which direction the play (in sports/children/pets) is going. I have also used the 'newspaper's' D200, and the focussing speed on that is not substantially/significantly/a-world-of-difference faster than the K100d or the K10d. For those of you who object to this observation, i propose a scenario: think of how a well anticipated photographer (i.e. skilled) who gets his shot by getting into position is far better off than one who thinks photography is just pushing a button while her camera does all of the work. On the K100d, it is possible to customize how you want to focus. What i mean is, i set my camera on Continuous mode and assign my focussing to the 'OK' button. This does make focussing more speedy because you are able to hold the focussing/OK button down and there is slightly less shutter lag when you do want to take the picture. The serious photographer ought to concentrate on developing his skill sets rather than contributing the lack of 'good' shots on the camera and, in our case, the focussing speed. I am not objecting to the fact that a fast focussing speed is not helpful/wanted/desired. I just dont think that Pentax's focussing speed falls into the category of "slow" - and definitely not "slow" as to count it out when used to photograph kids, Pets and/or sports. Lastly, i highly recommend changing the way you shoot, including my suggestion in the paragraph above. Tingster.

03-02-2008, 04:43 PM	#26
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by m8o Vegas has a line on how long until RH weighs in w/unabashed negativity and narry a positive thing to say... Ah, #18, the winner.... Did anyone have #18? No? I guess the house wins. Not that I would know what he blabbered on about as he's on my ignore list, but does it matter? could it be any different then ever before? And all of you too could be much happier if you'd just put RH on your ignore list as well. Yep, I thought there was value to his musings @ 1st back last summer/fall when I was new here, but after a while saw through the mist from his never ending heated/unhappy hot air; what a bitter SOB. Maybe if he just once had something to say about how to use a/the camera(s) we all discuss here, opinions could be different [fine, we heard your position; most don't agree; there's nothing new? ok, I've seen the same enough.] And that is on topic, and is the point. Thank you to many who describe your shooting techniques. Much appreciated. Last edited by m8o; 03-02-2008 at 05:05 PM.

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03-02-2008, 06:34 AM	#16
Snowcat Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 239	Our AF is extremely accurate. I get out of focus shots like 1 of 100, maybe even less. Nikon's AF sure is faster, but it is less accurate, it happens, and happens quite often, that it says it's locked, but resulting shot is out of focus. (tested with my own hands in low light condition my GX-10 and friend's D200) Personally I prefer accuracy. Quote: As an example - there is a thread on this site where someone - shooting weddings - was complaining (he would not like the word complaining) about how his Pentax "searched" for focus while shooting group shots. Were the people in the "group" at a dead run? If you focus on the people once - using the OK or AF button - why do you have to re-focus for each group shot? The simply does not make sense. Perhaps those wedding group shots were taken with all 11 AF points turned on. Leave only one center AF point, this gives you more control, you know what exactly you are focusing on. And no AF seeking will occur.

03-02-2008, 08:23 AM	#17
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	Hum, when I learned how to make photos with my Ricoh Singlex TLS, 33 years ago, most photos I shot were in focus and right exposed. Today I have less focus problems than exposure problems. The focus system works pretty reliable and good, except for very low light situations. I can remember the days that cameras like the K10D were called PHD cameras; [P]ush [H]ere [D]ummy! cameras. Guess most people have forgotten to anticipate on a situation, are too lazy to work with the camera and blame the system if their exposure or focus are wrong. To them: If you want a PHD! camera buy a P&S camera. Don't blame the tool, blame yourself. - Bert

03-02-2008, 10:05 AM	#19
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	Originally posted by bymy141 Don't blame the tool, blame yourself. - Bert I often get he idea that the man behind the camera is the tool

03-02-2008, 10:46 AM	#20
Pentaxke Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 476	Having used a Nikon D200 (Fuji S5 pro actually, but both are the same camera with different sensors) for a couple of days, I must say I wasn't all too impressed with the AF of it. It's a bit faster, but not quiet as accurate... What you win on one side, you loose at the other side...

03-02-2008, 10:46 AM	#21
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by bymy141 Guess most people have forgotten to anticipate on a situation... ....Don't blame the tool, blame yourself. Don't blame the rapist - blame your short skirt (c) some of them

03-02-2008, 10:51 AM	#22
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Pentaxke Having used a Nikon D200 (Fuji S5 pro actually, but both are the same camera with different sensors) for a couple of days, I must say I wasn't all too impressed with the AF of it. It's a bit faster, but not quiet as accurate... What you win on one side, you loose at the other side... what the system from ~2005 has to do w/ us in 2008 ? compare it w/ Pentax cameras from 2005.

03-02-2008, 12:10 PM	#23
flyer Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada Posts: 2,013	Up to a point, I have to agree with RH. The problem is that people rely on technology for everything, so they don't bother learning the basics, or the "why". With even skill, the technology will win all the time, but you will not find two persons with even skill, so it's important to learn the "how", the "why" and so on. It is the only way to improve your picture taking skill.

03-02-2008, 03:02 PM	#24
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by nostatic age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill (snip) Wow. It's been a very long time since I last heard that one. Most stopped using it because it's an entirely false proverb - neither age and treachery nor youth and skill routinely go hand-in hand, and none of the four will always overcome the others. stewart

03-02-2008, 03:52 PM	#25
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864	Originally posted by RiceHigh I really don't know what is about to defense here - IF Pentax's AF is really up to par with the competition. (snip) RiceHigh, your problem is consistently defining this issue as a race or competition without regard for anything else. By your standards, every feature of a car (camera, computer, television, house, building, road, or whatever) must be compared to the very best, with anything falling short (not "up to par with the competition") in any regard declared a failure. Of course, that's obviously not how most people (including yourself for things other than Pentax) weigh the value of things in the real world. The "defense" you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge is that the AF system on current Pentax cameras is sufficient for most considering the good overall performance of that combined with the relatively low cost of the camera. Are there cameras availably which focus quicker? Certainly. Absolutely nobody is denying that. But that fact does not make the K10D, or whatever Pentax, a failure. Not anymore than cameras focusing quicker than your Canon EOS 5D mean it's a failure. You clearly accept that latter premise when it comes to your Canon, but repeatedly refuse to extend the same courtesy to the Pentax cameras. I would ask why, but your bias is obvious. stewart

03-02-2008, 05:01 PM	#27
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Originally posted by m8o Not that I would know what he blabbered on about as he's on my ignore list... Doesn't seem to work too well then does it?

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03-02-2008, 05:07 PM	#28
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by Arpe Doesn't seem to work too well then does it? folks keep quoting and replying... But I was also just making a social observation to the OP topic too... this thread was like a sugar cube to a fly that is RH; there was no way he was letting it go by w/o a bite! Me, I'm glad I can instead be categorized as predictable to always respond to a great picture of a dog or landscape or flower, etc., and POST MY OWN PHOTOGRAPHS too.

03-02-2008, 05:54 PM	#29
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by Tingchaleun You guys are hilarious. Really. But are you guys raising a point for or against what i'm saying. I got kinda lost with the introduction of the AK. No I quite support your point of view.

03-02-2008, 06:00 PM	#30
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by stewart_photo Wow. It's been a very long time since I last heard that one. Most stopped using it because it's an entirely false proverb - neither age and treachery nor youth and skill routinely go hand-in hand, and none of the four will always overcome the others. stewart Evidently sense of humor lost out as well I didn't realize that "old sayings" had to undergo ISO 9001 certification to retain usefulness...