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03-30-2013, 09:10 AM   #16
dms
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Why want e.v. bias in M mode?

With a K or M lens, if one wants to adjust the exposure (you are metering highlights, the camera/lens combination under or overexposes, etc.) then in M mode the pushing green button sets the shutter speed (in conjunction w/ closing lens to set aperture shutting for the lens) must be followed by a further action: adjusting the f stop or shutter speed by the desired e.v., adjustment. Either done by you--or (simultaneously) by camera--my K20D does the latter (i.e., allows an e.v. adjustment be applied in M mode).

The down side compared to A lenses is the metering is done with the aperture closed down--and this can lead to insufficient light for the meter to work. A problem for example in theatre photography.

03-30-2013, 09:20 AM   #17
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An older manual film camera (e.g., K1000) allowed you to lie about the film ASA (ISO)--not so on a dslr. The e.v., bias serves the same purpose., but as I said I believe neither the K10d or K30 permit it in M mode. And the don't allow aperture priority with pre-A lenses--so there is no way to enter the e.v. bias--except post metering.
03-30-2013, 09:52 AM   #18
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Thanks for the explanation dms. We are on the same page. I am coming from the film days (645, 67, LX, and K1000 with spotmatics prior). The operation you describe without the e.v. bias is the same operation as I am accustomed to... basically stop down meter followed by adjustment via opening up or stopping down aperture or shutter. So I'm ok with that. I will most likely spend 90% of the time exposing in M mode using K/M lenses in this manner.

My number one concern during this decision is whether or not the camera of choice will meter as expected. I want to avoid another episode as with the K10D (Over under exposure at stopped down or wide open apertures).

So far I have, K10D and K20D off my list due to these exposure issues. If there are more to avoid I would be greatly appreciated.
03-30-2013, 10:06 AM   #19
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May want to double-check the comments about EV +- adjustments in M mode on the K-30 with someone more knowledgeable than me but I just tried it on mine and it seemed to impact the green button's decision appropriately.

Plus the K-30 has focus peaking as mentioned as well as an awesome pentaprism viewfinder. Again, I am not experienced by any stretch of the imagination so hopefully more experienced K-30 owners will chime in.


Last edited by HockeyDad; 03-30-2013 at 06:41 PM. Reason: typos made on phone
03-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #20
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usayit, I assumed you knew what I meant. And yes, for most photography, it's not a big deal. (For color film I mostly used an incident light meter anyway.)

I cannot speak to the accuracy of the metering--my only (extensive) experience/testing is with the K20D and replacement screen--first from the ist and then a 3rd party split screen (made from Nikon K3, as I recall).

For me the e.v. bias matters a lot in theatre work with rapidly changing lighting. That's also why I mentioned the problem with insufficient light for the meter: spot metering with a replacement split screen the darkening is about 3 e.v.

BTW it is odd (IMO) than in all the reviews I have read about the K10d (and the Kx--which I recently purchased, and apparently the K30 and K01 as pointed out by Adam and others) no one points out the absence of e.v. bias in M mode! For fast paced photography with older lenses it is potentially important (I guess testers don't use older glass)--but even the many user reviews in pentaxforums don't as I recall mention it.
03-30-2013, 10:22 AM   #21
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Page 91 of the Kx manual says "EV Compensation is not available in M or B mode." And I am mentoring someone with a K30, and I was unable to set a bias in M mode. Although maybe there is a way--the K20d manual seems to say (suggest) spot metering doesn't work on older glass--but it does!
03-30-2013, 10:27 AM   #22
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Correction--I meant page 91 of the K-30 manual
03-30-2013, 11:15 AM   #23
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If you're shooting in raw, exposure compensation is not so critical. I love the way the K20D protects the highlights. Under most circumstances, it's possible to pull back the highlights and/or push the shadows up to a stop and still retain detail.

03-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by dms Quote
Page 91 of the K-30 manual says "EV Compensation is not available in M or B mode."
You're right, it does. I hadn't read that before trying it. I guess the difference is that it doesn't adjust "on-the-fly" like it does in AV mode and others. However, it really does seem to have an impact on the decisions the green button makes. For kicks, I threw on an M 50 f/1.7, set the aperture ring to f/8 and set the ISO to 800 in M mode. Then I took three shots. 1st shot just pushed the green button and shot. Then hit the +/- button and dialed up +3, hit the green button and shot. Finally, hit the +/- button and dialed down to -3, hit the green button and shot. As you can see by the images below, the EV +/- setting seemed to impact the decision the green button made when it was choosing a shutter speed. With a manual lens and a set ISO, shutter speed was the only option left for the green button to tweak. Earlier my test was with a modern lens and both aperture and shutter speed seemed to change appropriately each time I pressed the green button and the EV +/- setting did seem to impact what it chose.

Of course, with the K-30 you can also set auto ISO while the mode dial is in M but the camera actually treats that as AV mode because that's really what it is.
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03-30-2013, 05:38 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by HockeyDad Quote
You're right, it does. I hadn't read that before trying it. I guess the difference is that it doesn't adjust "on-the-fly" like it does in AV mode and others. However, it really does seem to have an impact on the decisions the green button makes. For kicks, I threw on an M 50 f/1.7, set the aperture ring to f/8 and set the ISO to 800 in M mode. Then I took three shots. 1st shot just pushed the green button and shot. Then hit the +/- button and dialed up +3, hit the green button and shot. Finally, hit the +/- button and dialed down to -3, hit the green button and shot. As you can see by the images below, the EV +/- setting seemed to impact the decision the green button made when it was choosing a shutter speed. With a manual lens and a set ISO, shutter speed was the only option left for the green button to tweak. Earlier my test was with a modern lens and both aperture and shutter speed seemed to change appropriately each time I pressed the green button and the EV +/- setting did seem to impact what it chose.

Of course, with the K-30 you can also set auto ISO while the mode dial is in M but the camera actually treats that as AV mode because that's really what it is.
HockeyDad, thanks for doing that test. I wish my K10D worked like that! Could the discrepancy with the K30 manual be due to this feature being added via a firmware update?
03-30-2013, 05:58 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by HockeyDad Quote
I took three shots. 1st shot just pushed the green button and shot. Then hit the +/- button and dialed up +3, hit the green button and shot. Finally, hit the +/- button and dialed down to -3, hit the green button and shot. As you can see by the images below, the EV +/- setting seemed to impact the decision the green button made when it was choosing a shutter speed.
There's no arguing with these results. EV comp is active in M mode.
03-30-2013, 06:36 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by wiseman Quote
Could the discrepancy with the K30 manual be due to this feature being added via a firmware update?
Looking through the menu, the firmware reports it is 1.00. It is whatever came on the camera as I'm a big fan of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" when it comes to firmware and I've been happy so far.

FWIW I just tried my K-r and the +/- button did nothing in M mode... It didn't even bring up the adjustment scale to allow me to set an EV compensation. Maybe Pentax just went with a copy/paste of the K-r manual for the K-30 and forgot to edit the part about EV in M mode.

Last edited by HockeyDad; 03-30-2013 at 07:05 PM.
03-30-2013, 11:38 PM   #28
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I shoot alot of landscapes and will use manual lenses and/or manual focus for most of my shots. The focus peaking on the K-30 has been invaluable for this. So i would recommend either the K30 or K01.

Last edited by curlednoodles; 03-30-2013 at 11:58 PM.
03-30-2013, 11:55 PM   #29
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K-01. It's a manual lens dream.
03-31-2013, 01:35 AM   #30
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If it wasn't for for the fact of not being digital, I would have recommend the Pentax LX.

IMHO the finest 35mm camera made, they're just a joy to use and have huge viewfinder(s).

But hey, a FF DSLR is on it's way, maybe a DLX, watch this space.
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