Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-04-2008, 06:41 AM   #16
Veteran Member
PaulAndAPentax's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 390
Simple. Its about resolution. Digital pictures still don't have the resolution that film has. Slide film is up around 21MP. This is why Canon has a MkIII with 19MP or whatever it is. While film is slowly being replaced as the standard in the industry, we still want its resolution.

03-04-2008, 06:49 AM   #17
Pentaxian
Lowell Goudge's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 15,399
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Why did Pentax make the K20D a 14 MP camera? Is anybody clamoring for a 14 MP camera? I regard the extra megapixels as mainly a hard disk space waster. And I assume that, if they'd been content to stop at, say, 12 MP, the camera could have been slightly less noisy. Was the megapixel count just a marketing move? I would find that slightly discouraging. I have enjoyed thinking of Pentax as a company that tended to be more about quality and less about marketing hype than some of the competition.

It may sound as if I'm asking these questions rhetorically, but actually, I'm not. If there's a good reason for the big jump in the megapixel count, I'd like to know what it is.

Will
Will, although I have not looked at this in detail, I would be willing to bet it has something to do with the simple geometry available on the chip, and that 14 MP was a somewhat natural choice, while remaining within the process capabilities for the individual lenses on the sensors.

I agree with you that this is more than enough. and I want better noise, and broader ISO ranges before anything else.

It should also be noted that I have decided not to get the K20D as it does not seem, to me as a K10D owner to be a big enough step to discard a perfectly good camera after 13 months. It took 3 years for me to replace my *istD.
03-04-2008, 07:00 AM   #18
Not Registered
Guest




I see 3 reasons:
1) Ocassional photog without too much knowledge still thinking that the more MP the better.
2) Amateur photog discovers that 14MP and a good medium telephoto allows to crop with reasonable results without having to use a megatelephoto.
3) People involved in marketing have a clear image of the development of the needs of the new wave (digital) photog: 1st) they buy an entry level camera. Then he/she posts pictures in a forum and all the people tell them how good they are (the same with family, friends, neighbours). Sometime later, the photog starts to think that these pictures could even be sold to get some money to cover expenses (LBA is bad). Then they try to sale photos online but discover that the money is in big prints. And finally they end up buying a high resolution camera.

I can add a 4th. Experienced amateurs and semipros that sell big prints and that cannot afford a MF digital back or an 1ds (or that simply like the pentax lenses and a small and easy to handle system) and that can make their work just perfectly with the K20D.
03-04-2008, 07:28 AM   #19
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
there is nothing wrong with more megapixles if the quality of light absorption is greater than a larger pixel.

this is where R&D comes in

this is why cameras are comming out every 6 months

this is not to say that a company cant f*ck up and make a crappy sensor

but at this stage in the game i think all the parties involved are striving to beat on the other, so we only benefit (except our wallets ofcourse)

03-04-2008, 07:40 AM   #20
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by christinelandon Quote
Will, another possible reason for the 14Mp choice is to provide the extra resolution needed to retain detail in print sizes 16x20 and up.
Christine,

Yes, this benefit of higher res originals is obvious, but it doesn't quite answer my question.

I mean, how many people want to make huge prints? I've never made a super-large print. But with huge raw files you are stuck with all that info all the time, and it costs money to store it even when you don't need it.

And I would note that Ben Kanarek has shown some really huge enlargements of his photos that looked great--and that was a year ago, photos taken with a K10D.

What I really wish is that raw resolution could be adjusted up and down the way jpeg res can.

Will
03-04-2008, 07:46 AM   #21
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by MJB DIGITAL Quote
I'll take the resolution anyday. Especially if the noise is low. The ability to crop in more can be usefull sometimes. Consider yourself stuck with a wide angle when you want a midrange zoom....you shoot anyway because it is an important moment.
at 14.6mp, you can crop in later and retain that resolution.
I'll be interested to see how good that res really is as a pseudo-zoom, because I'm not going to be able to afford the K20D and the Bigma in the next couple of months, so I'll be shooting wildlife in Colorado in early June with a K20D and a 70-300 + 1.4x TC.


QuoteQuote:
F.Y.I. the resolution of most film is comparable to 8mp
That's 35mm film, right? That's about what I've heard too and I find it interesting. I felt that increased res was useful in digital cameras until we got beyond 8 MP.

[/quote] i need to study what the resolution of glass is.[quote]

You're talking about lenses, right? Yes, I've wondered the same thing and I think it's a terrifically important point.

Will
03-04-2008, 08:08 AM   #22
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 685
Will if you don't want 14mp files on the K20D because you think it is a waste of space you can shoot at 10mp or 6mp settings.
03-04-2008, 08:17 AM   #23
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Finland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 185
s - small - speed

Happy to see that this bothers others too. I hope Pentax introduces a version with less pixels and more speed (fps, focus, card write/read) overall for press people who are more about the quick production and file transfer than the eternal fate of the images. The option to reduce file size of the jpegs doesn't help since you have to use raw anyway to master the contrasts.
Just make it the K20Ds, analogy to an EOS D-1 Mark IIIs.

03-04-2008, 08:25 AM   #24
Veteran Member
Gooshin's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto, the one in Canada.
Posts: 5,611
QuoteOriginally posted by Kameraten Quote
Happy to see that this bothers others too. I hope Pentax introduces a version with less pixels and more speed (fps, focus, card write/read) overall for press people who are more about the quick production and file transfer than the eternal fate of the images. The option to reduce file size of the jpegs doesn't help since you have to use raw anyway to master the contrasts.
Just make it the K20Ds, analogy to an EOS D-1 Mark IIIs.
why hold back evolution?

i dont know if you guys bothered to check out Chris's (Codiac) images but iso 3200 and 6400 are (sorry for being so vulgar) f*cking mindblowing.

More resolution is always good for imaging, esp cropping and taking advantages of high quality glass (like the 31 or the 43 which IIRC resolve more than a K100/K10D can help but distinguish)

and pentax has solved that problem AND increased high ISO performance.

as far as memory goes, honestly people, wake up, take a look at what speed technology is moving.

for less than 1000 dollars i can put together a PC system that can easily handle working with 20-40mb image files within seconds.

the world is moving forward, why do you people want to hold on to the past (this goes towards the full frame crowd, the film crowd, the darkroom crowd, and anyone else thats afraid of large files and post processing)
03-04-2008, 08:26 AM   #25
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
Will if you don't want 14mp files on the K20D because you think it is a waste of space you can shoot at 10mp or 6mp settings.
Rico,

'Fraid not. I'm not going to start shooting jpeg again: the advantages of raw would be lost. With raw, it's all or nothing.

Looks like I'm going to have to buy some bigger SD cards.

Will
03-04-2008, 08:33 AM   #26
Inactive Account




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,414
Will, I'm not sure you need to buy a K20D. I still have and still love my K10. While there are other features in the K20 besides MP, they will make their way into the next generation of lower priced Pentax models. If you don't need the 14 MP you could always skip this model. I'm not saying this to be rude. It sounds like you don't have a need for it, so why buy it? Especially at this price. You can get an awfully nice lens for the price of this camera.
03-04-2008, 08:36 AM   #27
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Cause no APS-C camera has this much resolving capability at ISO 3200...
Or even ISO 5000...

Steve,

These are very impressive shots. My K20D should arrive from Amazon.com tomorrow. You should apply to Pentax for your commission on my sale.


QuoteQuote:
Oh yeah and it helped in many other area, like cost, weight, not having to buy from someone else and the fact it'll withstand time. Canon's next 40D will have maybe 12MP at best if not 10MP again and the D300 will be on the shelves for 4 years based on Nikon's development roadmap. Pentax can now afford time playing with other new technologies while everyone catches up to the MP race.
This is an interesting take. I hope you're right. I really would like to go for at least 18 months now without buying another camera.

Will
03-04-2008, 08:59 AM   #28
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
Will, I'm not sure you need to buy a K20D. I still have and still love my K10. While there are other features in the K20 besides MP, they will make their way into the next generation of lower priced Pentax models. If you don't need the 14 MP you could always skip this model. I'm not saying this to be rude. It sounds like you don't have a need for it, so why buy it? Especially at this price. You can get an awfully nice lens for the price of this camera.
Dave,

Thanks--I respect your opinion a lot. You are surely right in one sense: nobody really "needs" the K20D. If the K10D was a great camera six months ago, and it was, then it ought to be a great camera today.

Still, I placed my order last night and the K20D should arrive tomorrow. I checked Amazon.com's return policy carefully before placing my order and I will treat the camera with kid gloves for a week before putting my K10D up for sale.

I don't urgently need the 14 MP, or the live view, and I don't care much that the auto-focus speed has not improved. What I do need--or very badly want--is the K20D's better performance at higher ISO in lower light. Indeed, it was a need for better high ISO performance that brought me to the digital SLR in the first place. I have a wedding to shoot weekend after next, another on the calendar shortly after that, a Confirmation (with the Bishop) and a school graduation coming up in April and May, a couple portraits, and I hope to be doing more and more weddings. There are of course folks out there shooting weddings with Nikon D40's and Rebel XTi's, but the folks I am trying to compete with are using Canon 5D's or at least 40D's and now Nikon D300's. It's possible that I bought into the wrong platform for the kind of photography I'm doing, but I really don't want to come to that conclusion, in part because, if it's true, well, I'm stuck, because I can't afford to switch, but also because there's a lot about Pentax that I really, really like.

Re the issue of a new body vs a new lens, you're right, that's been on my mind, too. I have really been wanting to get a Bigma. But the Bigma is a hobby purchase: When we go on vacation, I like to pretend I'm on assignment for National Geographic. So this year, I'll just have to see if I can use that 14 MP resolution to get even closer to those bighorn sheep I hope to see again in Rocky Mountain National Park.

Will
03-04-2008, 09:15 AM   #29
Inactive Account




Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 67
The OP on why 14MP and then another poster that mentioned squeezing 20MP on the APS-C sensor and then anyone interested.

Robert
03-04-2008, 09:20 AM   #30
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,067
Hi Will

You're at it again.....hee hee !
QuoteQuote:
When we go on vacation, I like to pretend I'm on assignment for National Geographic.
Well I hate to admit it, but sometimes when the sun's at a certain angle, I like to pretend that I'm Henri Cartier Bresson,
but only if there are crowds of people around just in case anyone notices.....lol ! Ah, what with me being so Leicable and all.....

Au revoir
Richard
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, count, dslr, megapixel, mp, pentax, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: K20D, Battery Grip, NEW K20D battery, cable remote (Worldwide) Albert Siegel Sold Items 6 09-23-2010 08:02 AM
In Canada: Summer Rebates for K20d or K20d plus lens Pentaxtic Pentax DSLR Discussion 1 07-17-2009 11:34 AM
Magic Lantern Guides: Pentax K20D and MasterWorks: Jumpstart Guide for the K20D. Reportage Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 10 02-12-2009 10:24 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:49 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top