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03-05-2008, 02:46 PM   #16
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I have also briefly wrestled with this issue. As I would probably loose the third woman - my wife - if I upgraded to the K20 it was an easy decision. Keep my K10.

03-05-2008, 03:11 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
does the study say whether the funds cure the disease or remove the withdrawl symptoms by allowing you to purchase what ever you want?
That's precisely what the scientists want to find out.

I will say that I decided some time ago that, while I'd like to have a bottomless bank account, there's no question that even THAT would not solve my problems. Say I'm Bill Gates. I buy B&H lock stock and barrel. Now what? Now I have to learn what to DO with all of that stuff, and I can't learn everything at once, so that means more decisions about priorities that I'm not emotionally prepared to make.

It's enough to make one wish that one were interested in something safe and inexpensive, like, say, watching television. And then I remembered how much my brother-in-law spent on his HD television and realized: there's no escape from consumerist hell. We're all doomed.

Will
03-05-2008, 03:29 PM   #18
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Had a chance to try the K20D a few days ago. If one just looks at the exterior, there is little to distinguish it from the K10D. However once you pick it up and start shooting with it, it immediately becomes evident that there are significant improvements that went in on the inside.

The camera is a lot quieter, the WB is demonstrably better, the image quality is stunning and focusing is just that bit quicker. It is in all respects a better camera than the K10D. Because it is so similar to the K10D, to me this is a good thing as it makes the transition and learning curve so much easier.

The issue of upgrading isn't a clearcut one and to me it has little to do with the capabilities of the K20D or the K10D. The issue is price. The K10D is priced to clear and can be had very reasonably new (if you can pick one up) or used, but you're paying for last year's technology. Whereas the K20D is priced at a premium being the new flagship camera. The difference can be quite a lot. For those with the means or those who shoot for a living, the K20D is a no-brainer, it is so much better than the K10D.

The side issue to consider is that you'll need to bump up your memory cards and eventually hard disk space with the K20D, but that's an inevitable consequence of higher levels of disk storage. This is certainly a bellweather indication to pick up the stocks of harddisk companies like Seagate and Western Digital.

Last edited by creampuff; 03-05-2008 at 03:35 PM.
03-05-2008, 04:43 PM   #19
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sometimes the cure is worse than the disease...

03-05-2008, 05:26 PM   #20
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I want to reiterate how clever and intelligent the responses have been. I am totally amused and amazed!! I have been quoted a difference of 700.00 dollars for a trade. I am also aware that if I do make the trade it is 90% emotional but... the scientist in me likes to make faux rationales for my addictions!! Please help me spend my copious amount of $$$$. Much laughter and appreciation! glad I switched from my Minolta/Canon errant behavior. schmally
03-05-2008, 05:58 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by schmally Quote
I want to reiterate how clever and intelligent the responses have been. I am totally amused and amazed!! I have been quoted a difference of 700.00 dollars for a trade. I am also aware that if I do make the trade it is 90% emotional but... the scientist in me likes to make faux rationales for my addictions!! Please help me spend my copious amount of $$$$. Much laughter and appreciation! glad I switched from my Minolta/Canon errant behavior. schmally
If this is what is worring you, go out and buy a new lens, Help Will do his test on LBA and CBA by being a volunteer.

Honestly however, if you have watched the lens forum and the market place you will appreciate that good lenses outlast cameras.

If you buy a lens now, when you really really really want that new body, there willbe a K20000000D or something like that but your lenses will still work.
03-05-2008, 06:55 PM   #22
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Old F*** wordy reply

QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
If this is what is worring you, go out and buy a new lens, Help Will do his test on LBA and CBA by being a volunteer.

Honestly however, if you have watched the lens forum and the market place you will appreciate that good lenses outlast cameras.

If you buy a lens now, when you really really really want that new body, there willbe a K20000000D or something like that but your lenses will still work.
I'll go along with this. I have finished the toy playing phase with the DA and DA* lenses, and now am setting out to learn the limitations and foibles of using my M lenses. My two M lenses are somewhere around 30 years old. They still work on the camera, and will work fine once I teach myself how the K10D handles exposure. Not every f/stop will be properly metered. I ran a test on the 100 macro, and found that I can believe my meter at settings from f/5.6 to f/11 when in manual mode. By the way, both my current M lenses were bought used. For pretty decent prices, too. 20 years ago I bought the SMCP-M 400/5.6 from a newspaper photography who was switching to Nikon so he could share equipment. It cost me Cdn $330. It was scuffed a bit, but optically fine. It has a mechanical problem with the tripod mount due to wear on the "brake linings" so it will rotate under pressure even with the clamp tightened, but this isn't something that affects the image.

Here I am, with two 30 year old lenses mounted on the front of the (almost) latest and greatest photographic instrument, the K10D, and they still work. There are some additional limits to the use on the K10D compared to the MZ-S film camera due to the mount differences. But they focus fine, and the image quality is great.

I hope to be out and around with the 400 tomorrow, and find out which f/stops work with no adjustments to the metering, and what adjustments I will need for the other stops in the range I use.

Am I happy with Mr. Pentax's philosophy? You betcha.
03-05-2008, 07:15 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by schmally Quote
I am 61 years old and am well aware of the difficulties of life. My dilemma is simple-do I buy a K20D before I am even intimately familiar with the K10??? I am reminded of learning golfing skills Before you develop bad ones! (weak analogy??) Yes, I want the new one but am still intrigued by the current resident in my bag. Will this K20 soon become the Kxxxxx! Thanks for listening and offering any viable rationale for the "inevitable" purchase the is lurking in my mind!! Love reading and learning from all of you. schmally
Hey Schmally - I can feel your pain. I'm 61 and am eyeing the K20D, as well. I haven't decided whether to get a K20D (to augment my DS2 and K10D) or wait till the next iteration. From what I've seen so far, the K20D seems a bit pricy - it's a cool camera, no doubt, but worth $700 more than a K10D? I don't know . . . . we'll see. I'd really like to see Pentax fix the current creaky AF system before I spring for another body, but hey . . . . you only live once . . . . so I can easily justify a different viewpoint if I "need" to.

BTW, I'm a Saluki (BA, Chemistry, '68) - I grew up in Mt. Vernon and entered SIU in '64. I haven't lived in Illinois since I left Carbondale for grad school in Nashville. I was expecting and hoping that the Salukis would be pretty formidable this basketball season, but no dice. Now I'm relying on my other alma mater, Vanderbilt, to make some waves in March (fingers crossed).

Jer

03-05-2008, 08:45 PM   #24
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Really surprised at the answers here. If you have the money - two women are better than one! Much better. Now I've done it.
thanks
barondla
03-05-2008, 10:14 PM   #25
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As another 61 year old....

I've got the D and the K10d and both have served well, and as a seller of all these fine camera, I often have these flights of fancy. Most of my picture taking is for my own use and enjoyment and not for walls of a gallery. It's nice when a friend wants one, or my charming wife wants one for framing to give to a girlfriend.
One thing I do enjoy is flowers in my backyard. I often use my Canon G5 for that.

Myself, I'm waiting for a Pentax with a swivel screen and live view. That would be the second light of my life!!
That would be worth upgrading to. It will come. No more grovelling on the ground!

Besides, like me, you'll probably go another 40 years or so (hopefully). Lotsa time!

David

PS Find a part time job in a camera store work 1-2 days a week. Employee discounts
03-05-2008, 10:41 PM   #26
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Just my thoughts...

If I still had just a K100D, I personally wouldn't waste a second to upgrade to either a K10D or K20D. As I make money for what I do, I'd be inclined to go for the K20D. Right now though, I have a K10D, and for the present time, I'm focusing on building up a larger lens collection. Reason being, besides lenses outlasting a camera, there's a whole lot of talk concerning a pro body next year. If I spend my wad now on the K20D, another expensive camera purchase in a year will be hard to justify, especially if I haven't acquired the lenses I want by then. And then, I'll really have to kick myself.

The K10D is such a step up from the K100D, I forgot just how much until the other day why I picked up the K100D, and went to shoot with it. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic little camera, but the K10D is just miles above. I don't think I'd bother with a K200D personally. Once you're spoiled by the more advanced body controls of the 10/20, and the convenience of a vertical grip, it's awfully hard to go back!
04-10-2008, 03:23 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by proudtoshootpentax Quote
Once you're spoiled by the more advanced body controls of the 10/20, and the convenience of a vertical grip, it's awfully hard to go back!
(emphasis added for clarification)

FWIW: The K200D's vertical grip is the Pentax BG-3

It's a battery grip (4 x AA's) and costs about $30 cheaper than the K10/20's D-BG2 grip.

Adorama link: 39687 Pentax BG-3 Battery Grip for K200D Camera

Now I wonder where the battery grip for my K100D is. Anyone? :-(

As to the bigger topic. I sure don't know being "spoiled" by the K10/20's controls (as compared to the K100/200's), but I sure do hope to by sometime late next week.

Last edited by Cedar; 04-10-2008 at 07:45 AM.
04-10-2008, 04:45 AM   #28
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I'm also 61 - not sure what that has to do with anything though. In fact I'll be 62 next Tuesday....

There's no real answer to your question since it really depends upon your reason for asking.

If you have the money and desire, then you will take the 'go ahead and buy the K20D' answers to reinforce your decision.

On the other hand if you do not really have the money (even if you have the desire) you will listen to the 'keep the K10D until.....' camp.

Me, I own the K10D and think it is an excellent camera and see no real advantage in upgrading to the K20D - I'd rather put the money towards some good 'glass' instead. I'd also rather wait for the next big technological advances to be incorporated into a new Pentax a few years down the track.

Whatever you decide to do, enjoy it!
04-10-2008, 02:07 PM   #29
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NEED it? Who said anything about NEEDING it? It's all about WANTING it.... This CBA and LBA knows no logic - it's all to do with sentiment. I know - I am a sufferer too.

But - I solved my problem. I was a very happy K10D user, but was severely tempted by the K20D. Should I? Shouldn't I? etc.

So I told myself (and SWMBO) that I most definitely needed a second camera body, as I have so many lenses due to LBA. So I bought a K20D body. Simple - problem solved!

Now - I have TWO camera bodies, and look like a real pro. I have my Tamron 18-250 on one, and the other carries whichever lens I'm using for the session - tele, wide, macro, whatever. Walking around with two camera bodies slung over the shoulder, one with the 18-250 and the other with the Sigma 10-20 makes me look so much more professional than your average tourist...

Of course, SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) insists on "lots of nice pictures" and I have her well educated in the fact that to get these, I need - absolutely essential - LOTS of different lenses. Each one is the best for something, so I need them all, just in case.

But she still refuses to carry the big backpack with all the lenses in, the lazy woman.... I've even offered to get her one on roller wheels, but she tells me that it spoils her image and detracts from her shoes...

AHA....!!!! So, THAT is the key to the whole situation. She buys shoes (I call her Imelda) and I buy camera stuff. The arrangement works well. She has given up asking about my camera gear, and I no longer ask her how much she has spent on the two rooms full of shoes. Perfect!

Of course, we had to sell one child into slavery, and the other for organ donations, to support our habits, but that's just the natural cost of living with CBA, LBA and SBA (Shoe Buying Addiction).

So there you have it. Buy the K20D - you only live once. Get it as a second camera body, and keep the K10D. Become a REAL pro and learn to walk around with both slung nonchalently over the shoulder. It builds up your trapezius muscles quite nicely too, which keeps you looking young and fit for HER.

The sacrifices we make.....!
04-10-2008, 02:42 PM   #30
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I know what I did. I traded my 3 month old K10D in for a K20D and couldn't be happier. I missed the low light/high ISO capability of my K100D, but really liked the extra controls of the K10D. I figured the K20D would give me both, which it does. However, the extra resolution is really nice, my 16-50 works much better on my K20D (no more purple fringing - really wasn't expecting that), Live View is sometimes useful, AF-C on my 50-135 is nearly faultless, the list goes on and on. For me, I haven't regretted it at all. Did it make good economic sense? Of course not, but then which hobbies are rational?
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