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schmally · 03-05-2008, 05:31 AM

I am 61 years old and am well aware of the difficulties of life. My dilemma is simple-do I buy a K20D before I am even intimately familiar with the K10??? I am reminded of learning golfing skills Before you develop bad ones! (weak analogy??) Yes, I want the new one but am still intrigued by the current resident in my bag. Will this K20 soon become the Kxxxxx! Thanks for listening and offering any viable rationale for the "inevitable" purchase the is lurking in my mind!! Love reading and learning from all of you. schmally

jshurak · 03-05-2008, 06:03 AM

what are your intentions with photography? The K10D is a great camera for the serious amateur. That's what I'm shooting with right now. I love it, but I'd eventually like to earn my income through photography. I'm going to be helping shoot a couple of weddings this summer and I'd really like some of the new features from the K20D. Most notably the low noise/High ISO and the pc sync. Other than that, I don't feel the real need to upgrade.

**Lowell Goudge** · 03-05-2008, 06:25 AM

I think the first questions should be, do you ever intend to print greater than 11 x 17, and do you intend to spend most of the time shoting in very low light.

If the answer to both these is NO then I personaly don't see the point.

The K20D is, by all reports a fine camera, but I have not seen enough to cause me to go out and get it. I have an *istD and K10D. Although the increased pixel count is interesting, the camera otherwise seems to not have changed enough. I waited 6 camera releases before I got the K10D, because shake reduction on its own, didn't justify the change, I don't see here the increased resolution doing it either.

I will look long and hard before I go out and change from the K10D

tybeck · 03-05-2008, 08:58 AM

I agree with the two fellows above. If the K10D is serving you well there might be no need to upgrade. As said from the reviews the K20D looks to be a great camera. Honesty I've been tempted myself, but my K10D suits my needs right now. The only big plus of the K20D for me would be better noise handling, but my need for that is even limited, especially considering the upgrade price. Also I rarely print my photos, so resolution isn't so much of an issue. Take a look at the new features and think if you actually need them.

As for whether you could use the K20D when you have not "mastered" the K10D. From what I've seen of the camera I don't see this as an issue, aside from a few additions the interface is the same. You'd just have to relearn where some of the menu items are. Most people, even beginners and armatures like us shouldn't have an issue.

The last thing to consider is that any modern consumer electonic device will be "outdated" 6-12 months after you buy it. The shiny new one is usually better and the price of last-years model will drop. Unless you're baby breaks you're really not missing out on anything by waiting.

aegisphan · 03-05-2008, 09:53 AM

I would say to wait until the price drop if the "other woman" really needs the K10D. If she doesn't, then I have to agree with all the fellows above.

nostatic · 03-05-2008, 09:58 AM

I'll offer a counterpoint. Life is short...play hard. If you think the K20d will thrill you and you have the money, why not?

As for me, I do print larger than 11x17, and shoot available light at all costs. So given that I had the opportunity to return the K10d for store credit, I took it. Still pondering my dslr move, but likely will just do it right and get the K20d with 31mm ltd and 77mm ltd primes and call it a day.

The new Oly 420 with the 25mm pancake prime looks interesting though. Great city camera...

bymy141 · 03-05-2008, 12:14 PM

In my experience: standing still is loosing flexibility.
People that surround me sometimes are old, while young at age and visa versa.
Do not stop, keep on learning, keep on moving, take on the challenge, I agree with Nostatic.

GO FOR IT!

- Bert

gokenin · 03-05-2008, 12:43 PM

not meaning to hijack the thread but I am also attempting to decide the same question I have a k100d and I am wondering would you recommend a simple upgrade to a hopefully used or new K10 or would you jump over and go straight to the K20 or a mid level upgrade to a K200 when they come out?

nostatic · 03-05-2008, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by gokenin

not meaning to hijack the thread but I am also attempting to decide the same question I have a k100d and I am wondering would you recommend a simple upgrade to a hopefully used or new K10 or would you jump over and go straight to the K20 or a mid level upgrade to a K200 when they come out?

I don't believe in putting my money towards outdated technology *unless* you are getting a raging deal and it will do everything that you need it to.

I used my D70 until I was getting better images with another camera (Leica D-Lux 3). At that point I decided to make a switch and picked up a K10d. It was a big upgrade from the D70, but frankly didn't blow my Leica out of the water. So back it went. The K20d *might* be a significant enough upgrade to make it worth it to me. Otherwise it would be going back to Nikon and a D300 but that camera is more money and I don't really bond with it.

There are other factors for me. I am looking to print large so resolution is important. In addition, I often shoot in such a way that I don't want to or can't use the viewfinder. Liveview should help in that regard, so it becomes another upgrade factor.

But my bottom line is whether or not the new beats the old *enough* to make the money worth it. One rule of thumb is that I won't upgrade until I see a significant improvement, usually "doubling." Be it clock speed, resolution, etc. I know that in cameras mp is a bit of a red herring, but technology marches on and there are differences. More important to me is how the noise actually looks rather than trying to have things "clean." Clean is for hospital rooms, not my photos. ymmv.

**Lowell Goudge** · 03-05-2008, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by gokenin

not meaning to hijack the thread but I am also attempting to decide the same question I have a k100d and I am wondering would you recommend a simple upgrade to a hopefully used or new K10 or would you jump over and go straight to the K20 or a mid level upgrade to a K200 when they come out?

another tough question, not to upgrade, but upgrade to what?

I would think the K10, right now, or the K20 in a couple of months but not the K200, unless you really like the K100 controls.

My feel is that the K10D will have better shake reduction than the K200, it's just a guess of course, but note the K100 SR is not the same as K10, K10 has both axis plus rotation. K20 is like K10, so it somewhat figures K200 will be like K100.

All cameras(K10, K20, K200) support USM so that is not an issue, K10 right now is at a really good price, K20 will drop in price in coming months, I personally think K10 would be better than K200. I also think once youo have them, dual thumbwheels for the controls are the only way to go.

schmally · 03-05-2008, 01:21 PM

I am intently reading all of the wise and considered opinions. But, to muddy the water, my local dealer just called me to say that he received the K20D today. I am most reluctantly going to drive down to Missouri and force myself to have a tactile relationship with the "wench". I'll let you know if I was "unfaithful" to my current concubine! Really enjoy the reasoning and logic displayed by the responses. BTW. I am a retired biologist and love photographing wildlife . (Does that mean anything to anyone???) Thank you. schmally

**Lowell Goudge** · 03-05-2008, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by schmally

BTW. I am a retired biologist and love photographing wildlife . (Does that mean anything to anyone???) Thank you. schmally

yes. you probably suffer as a consequence from CBA (camera Buying Addiction) and LBA (LensBuying Addiction)

WMBP · 03-05-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

yes. you probably suffer as a consequence from CBA (camera Buying Addiction) and LBA (LensBuying Addiction)

These are very serious diagnoses, now recognized formally by the APA (American Psychological Association) and the AMA (American Medical Association). I have suffered from both for the last several years. Right now, there seems to be no cure. There was a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine last year hypothesizing that inheriting or winning a very substantial amount of money might alleviate these diseases, and many sufferers, including yours truly, have volunteered to be guinea pigs to test the hypothesis, but it's been difficult to get funding for the research from the NSF.

So watch out. Exercise doesn't seem to help, but I have found that I spend less if I drink lots and lots of certain kinds of fluids, because, um, you know, at some point, you can't really type a credit card number accurately any more.

Will

bt*ist · 03-05-2008, 02:15 PM

I won't respond directly with comparisons of camera specs, product upgrade philosophies and comparison of alternatives (I agree with most of what's been posted above), but I will post what my Finance/Economics teacher in high school once provided us with as a decision-making aid.

Ask yourself three questions:

1. Do I really need or want this? (ie. 'the K20D', or alternatively everything extra that the K20D has over and above your existing camera)
2. Can I afford it?
3. Is there anything better? (either 'better than the K20D', or 'anything better your money could be put to that you need/want/can afford more')

Hope this helps!

**Lowell Goudge** · 03-05-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by WMBP

These are very serious diagnoses, now recognized formally by the APA (American Psychological Association) and the AMA (American Medical Association). I have suffered from both for the last several years. Right now, there seems to be no cure. There was a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine last year hypothesizing that inheriting or winning a very substantial amount of money might alleviate these diseases, and many sufferers, including yours truly, have volunteered to be guinea pigs to test the hypothesis, but it's been difficult to get funding for the research from the NSF.

So watch out. Exercise doesn't seem to help, but I have found that I spend less if I drink lots and lots of certain kinds of fluids, because, um, you know, at some point, you can't really type a credit card number accurately any more.

Will

will

does the study say whether the funds cure the disease or remove the withdrawl symptoms by allowiing you to purchase what ever you want?

03-05-2008, 05:31 AM	#1
schmally Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 33	Leave the K10D for the other woman? I am 61 years old and am well aware of the difficulties of life. My dilemma is simple-do I buy a K20D before I am even intimately familiar with the K10??? I am reminded of learning golfing skills Before you develop bad ones! (weak analogy??) Yes, I want the new one but am still intrigued by the current resident in my bag. Will this K20 soon become the Kxxxxx! Thanks for listening and offering any viable rationale for the "inevitable" purchase the is lurking in my mind!! Love reading and learning from all of you. schmally

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03-05-2008, 06:03 AM	#2
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626	what are your intentions with photography? The K10D is a great camera for the serious amateur. That's what I'm shooting with right now. I love it, but I'd eventually like to earn my income through photography. I'm going to be helping shoot a couple of weddings this summer and I'd really like some of the new features from the K20D. Most notably the low noise/High ISO and the pc sync. Other than that, I don't feel the real need to upgrade.

03-05-2008, 06:25 AM	#3
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	I think the first questions should be, do you ever intend to print greater than 11 x 17, and do you intend to spend most of the time shoting in very low light. If the answer to both these is NO then I personaly don't see the point. The K20D is, by all reports a fine camera, but I have not seen enough to cause me to go out and get it. I have an *istD and K10D. Although the increased pixel count is interesting, the camera otherwise seems to not have changed enough. I waited 6 camera releases before I got the K10D, because shake reduction on its own, didn't justify the change, I don't see here the increased resolution doing it either. I will look long and hard before I go out and change from the K10D

03-05-2008, 08:58 AM	#4
tybeck Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 452	I agree with the two fellows above. If the K10D is serving you well there might be no need to upgrade. As said from the reviews the K20D looks to be a great camera. Honesty I've been tempted myself, but my K10D suits my needs right now. The only big plus of the K20D for me would be better noise handling, but my need for that is even limited, especially considering the upgrade price. Also I rarely print my photos, so resolution isn't so much of an issue. Take a look at the new features and think if you actually need them. As for whether you could use the K20D when you have not "mastered" the K10D. From what I've seen of the camera I don't see this as an issue, aside from a few additions the interface is the same. You'd just have to relearn where some of the menu items are. Most people, even beginners and armatures like us shouldn't have an issue. The last thing to consider is that any modern consumer electonic device will be "outdated" 6-12 months after you buy it. The shiny new one is usually better and the price of last-years model will drop. Unless you're baby breaks you're really not missing out on anything by waiting.

03-05-2008, 09:53 AM	#5
aegisphan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Mexico Posts: 815	I would say to wait until the price drop if the "other woman" really needs the K10D. If she doesn't, then I have to agree with all the fellows above.

03-05-2008, 09:58 AM	#6
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	I'll offer a counterpoint. Life is short...play hard. If you think the K20d will thrill you and you have the money, why not? As for me, I do print larger than 11x17, and shoot available light at all costs. So given that I had the opportunity to return the K10d for store credit, I took it. Still pondering my dslr move, but likely will just do it right and get the K20d with 31mm ltd and 77mm ltd primes and call it a day. The new Oly 420 with the 25mm pancake prime looks interesting though. Great city camera...

03-05-2008, 12:14 PM	#7
bymy141 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,563	In my experience: standing still is loosing flexibility. People that surround me sometimes are old, while young at age and visa versa. Do not stop, keep on learning, keep on moving, take on the challenge, I agree with Nostatic. GO FOR IT! - Bert

03-05-2008, 12:43 PM	#8
gokenin Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: lowell,ma Posts: 1,899	not meaning to hijack the thread but I am also attempting to decide the same question I have a k100d and I am wondering would you recommend a simple upgrade to a hopefully used or new K10 or would you jump over and go straight to the K20 or a mid level upgrade to a K200 when they come out?

03-05-2008, 01:03 PM	#9
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	Originally posted by gokenin not meaning to hijack the thread but I am also attempting to decide the same question I have a k100d and I am wondering would you recommend a simple upgrade to a hopefully used or new K10 or would you jump over and go straight to the K20 or a mid level upgrade to a K200 when they come out? I don't believe in putting my money towards outdated technology unless you are getting a raging deal and it will do everything that you need it to. I used my D70 until I was getting better images with another camera (Leica D-Lux 3). At that point I decided to make a switch and picked up a K10d. It was a big upgrade from the D70, but frankly didn't blow my Leica out of the water. So back it went. The K20d might be a significant enough upgrade to make it worth it to me. Otherwise it would be going back to Nikon and a D300 but that camera is more money and I don't really bond with it. There are other factors for me. I am looking to print large so resolution is important. In addition, I often shoot in such a way that I don't want to or can't use the viewfinder. Liveview should help in that regard, so it becomes another upgrade factor. But my bottom line is whether or not the new beats the old enough to make the money worth it. One rule of thumb is that I won't upgrade until I see a significant improvement, usually "doubling." Be it clock speed, resolution, etc. I know that in cameras mp is a bit of a red herring, but technology marches on and there are differences. More important to me is how the noise actually looks rather than trying to have things "clean." Clean is for hospital rooms, not my photos. ymmv.

03-05-2008, 01:07 PM	#10
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	Originally posted by gokenin not meaning to hijack the thread but I am also attempting to decide the same question I have a k100d and I am wondering would you recommend a simple upgrade to a hopefully used or new K10 or would you jump over and go straight to the K20 or a mid level upgrade to a K200 when they come out? another tough question, not to upgrade, but upgrade to what? I would think the K10, right now, or the K20 in a couple of months but not the K200, unless you really like the K100 controls. My feel is that the K10D will have better shake reduction than the K200, it's just a guess of course, but note the K100 SR is not the same as K10, K10 has both axis plus rotation. K20 is like K10, so it somewhat figures K200 will be like K100. All cameras(K10, K20, K200) support USM so that is not an issue, K10 right now is at a really good price, K20 will drop in price in coming months, I personally think K10 would be better than K200. I also think once youo have them, dual thumbwheels for the controls are the only way to go.

03-05-2008, 01:21 PM	#11
schmally Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 33 Original Poster	I am intently reading all of the wise and considered opinions. But, to muddy the water, my local dealer just called me to say that he received the K20D today. I am most reluctantly going to drive down to Missouri and force myself to have a tactile relationship with the "wench". I'll let you know if I was "unfaithful" to my current concubine! Really enjoy the reasoning and logic displayed by the responses. BTW. I am a retired biologist and love photographing wildlife . (Does that mean anything to anyone???) Thank you. schmally

03-05-2008, 01:27 PM	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	Originally posted by schmally BTW. I am a retired biologist and love photographing wildlife . (Does that mean anything to anyone???) Thank you. schmally yes. you probably suffer as a consequence from CBA (camera Buying Addiction) and LBA (LensBuying Addiction)

03-05-2008, 02:09 PM	#13
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge yes. you probably suffer as a consequence from CBA (camera Buying Addiction) and LBA (LensBuying Addiction) These are very serious diagnoses, now recognized formally by the APA (American Psychological Association) and the AMA (American Medical Association). I have suffered from both for the last several years. Right now, there seems to be no cure. There was a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine last year hypothesizing that inheriting or winning a very substantial amount of money might alleviate these diseases, and many sufferers, including yours truly, have volunteered to be guinea pigs to test the hypothesis, but it's been difficult to get funding for the research from the NSF. So watch out. Exercise doesn't seem to help, but I have found that I spend less if I drink lots and lots of certain kinds of fluids, because, um, you know, at some point, you can't really type a credit card number accurately any more. Will

03-05-2008, 02:15 PM	#14
bt*ist Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: London, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 211	I won't respond directly with comparisons of camera specs, product upgrade philosophies and comparison of alternatives (I agree with most of what's been posted above), but I will post what my Finance/Economics teacher in high school once provided us with as a decision-making aid. Ask yourself three questions: 1. Do I really need or want this? (ie. 'the K20D', or alternatively everything extra that the K20D has over and above your existing camera) 2. Can I afford it? 3. Is there anything better? (either 'better than the K20D', or 'anything better your money could be put to that you need/want/can afford more') Hope this helps!

03-05-2008, 02:42 PM	#15
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,892	Originally posted by WMBP These are very serious diagnoses, now recognized formally by the APA (American Psychological Association) and the AMA (American Medical Association). I have suffered from both for the last several years. Right now, there seems to be no cure. There was a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine last year hypothesizing that inheriting or winning a very substantial amount of money might alleviate these diseases, and many sufferers, including yours truly, have volunteered to be guinea pigs to test the hypothesis, but it's been difficult to get funding for the research from the NSF. So watch out. Exercise doesn't seem to help, but I have found that I spend less if I drink lots and lots of certain kinds of fluids, because, um, you know, at some point, you can't really type a credit card number accurately any more. Will will does the study say whether the funds cure the disease or remove the withdrawl symptoms by allowiing you to purchase what ever you want?

Leave the K10D for the other woman?

Win a Pentax Limited Lens: Raffle Now Live!