Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-07-2008, 10:00 PM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,934
My First K20D Hands-on Impressions

Tried out two different units of K20D (with a DA 70 Limited and the DA 16-45) yesterday and have the following first impressions:-

1. The whole shutter release action is smoother and quieter (than any other previous K cameras). That means the mirror up action is gentler, shutter sound is quieter and the mirror down damping is better;

2. However, the shutter release is not really instantaneous. I can observe a noticeable shutter lag plus an even longer blackout time of the finder (maybe even worse than what K10D does have which is already considered as not good);

3. Moreover, the shutter release button is badly loose, which means the reaction force is simply too little for the half-pressing. In fact, I found it just feels worse than my K100D. The shutter release button of the vertical grip suffers from the same problem as the main body button. The bad feel decreases the overall feeling about better build quality;

4. Metering and exposure accuracy *seems* to be better. No significant underexposure was seen for quite a number of test shots which I made, under sunlight outdoor and in different artificial lighting sources or even mixed source. I feel this to be a good thing since it *seems* that Pentax have tried to make their DSLR to expose right and at least brighter in the K20D production units. Nonetheless, for the various samples from beta models, I could still see obvious underepozure problems as what all Pentax DSLRs which I have used would do.

Do note that with my yet limited use on the K20D, I think it maybe too early to draw conclusion on an improved metering system yet. But so far I feel that this "new" metering system is just better!

5. Auto WB seems to has been improved, with less significant colour cast which would present under more difficult lighting conditions as for previous Pentax DSLRs. The AWB is not totally ideal, though - it just looks better but not perfect.

6. I shot stationary people and object under the sunlight and indoor with AF-S mode, using the central AF point mostly. What I would temporarily conclude that the AF system is the same as and identical to the K10D and K100D's (well, if Lithium batteries is used in the K100). The most annoying thing is the final focus reconfirmation which checked for if the first time AF movement stopped position had any errors and needed to re-adjust once more (aka hunting, although it is not in a serious way, just because the testing environment is just bright or not too dim indoor). The responsiveness of the AF is rather poor, too, which means that after you have half-pressed the shutter release button, there is a noticeable delay before the AF motor moves - the AF system just needed to think longer than what I would tolerate. Well, in short, I would still think that the AF system performance, speed, responsiveness etc. is still pathetic;

7. Furthermore, the classic Pentax AF red illumination indicator incorrect position problem does still exist for these two units I tested!(?) The first K20D was having the central AF red point shift upwards whereas the second one had it shifted upwards and to the right side. The problem is indeed rather annoying (at least to me and quite some other users as reported) although it have nothing to do for the actual AF sensor alignment, I just wonder why Pentax still and still have NOT debugged its design and adopt a better indication method which should not be having this persistent problem, which happened on day one with my *ist D bodies, which is just a very disappointed thing.

Moreover, do note that the misaligned AF red dot may mislead the user to level the image when looking through the *optical* viewfinder, which is a practical problem which much less people would notice.

8. I am not impressed with the overall build quality of the K20D. It feels exactly the same of all the *ist D and previous K cameras - the outer shell is just too plasticky somehow afterall.

9. As other reviewers have reported, I also found that the Live View AF is problematic and difficult to use. In the Live View mode, what we need is to press the AF button at the body back to do the AF. But then there is no indication of any kind for what AF has been done completely and correctly, or NOT! (unlike other LiveView DSLRs like the Olympus E-410 and 510 which have such an indication with red and green spot to tell the status).

I had eventually got some out-of-focus pictures with such an AF "function" under the Live View mode with the K20D. I think I just "didn't know how to use the camera" as particular Pentax fanboys always said when they were put into their "defense mode"!

10. The LCD video frame rate under the Live View mode is not very high. I can see the displayed "video" is not smooth when I panned the K20D just in slow motion. It is just very usable if we are to take still photos, nonetheless.

All in all, the quick conclusion of mine is that whilst I believe that the K20D should be the best DSLR body ever made by Pentax in the Pentax land. It just fell short of many things in the competition and by no means it is really a wise choice to choose by considering its relatively high price tag which it is just not worth by judging in any ways unless we are tied firmly to the Pentax system. Frankly, if I am starting from scratch, why not buy a D300 or a 40D at about the same price, which has better and faster AF, faster shooting frame rate, better build quality, less shutter lag, less "classic" Pentax specified and unique problems, a stronger and more comprehensive system, better customer support and so on.

Finally, my bet is that the K20D will not be as "popular" as the K10D would as most of the potential new buyers who were interested in Pentax and such a "K10D" alike camera had already bought into a K10D already but I guess not many K10D users would upgrade to the K20D. The old Pentax *ist D series users might be interested but then the K20D by no means is an attractive offer for new comers, especially when those do not have any old Pentax lenses.

Original article with all the linked URLs included:-
RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: K20D First Hands-on Impressions


03-07-2008, 10:32 PM   #2
Pentaxian
Oldschool's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 1,276
With all this testing, did you happen to actually take any pictures?
03-07-2008, 11:20 PM   #3
Junior Member
dancel's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 49
I'm not here to insult you Ricehigh, but I'm not even sure if you owned a k10D<-- remember i said I'm not sure. but today i actually played with the k20D with my k10D with me and there is no difference at all with how it feels, and with you said for a person who is starting clean they will not be shelling out this much money on a dslr, people who are starting new pretty much will not spend 1300+ on a camera alone thats for sure, and to be honest man i hope you don't become a sales person for a camera store cause you would prolly be one of those people that will hand a beginner a d3 or a 1D Mk3 because they said they are looking for a camera. Ricehigh there is one thing that you said about the K20D on your blog which is.

Table 4:- Overall Image Quality (IQ) Grading = Well, I think the last grading is redundant, after we have gone through the results of all the above key performance aspects measured. :-)

I think Overall Image Quality is the most important thing in photography, get the word Photo in there. Give me a pentax with a crappy auto-focus (i will manual it) and a 1-2fps shooting with the best image quality around i will take it. If Pentax wants to join the fps competition they can but why would they? To compete with the 2? for what for bragging rights? Last time i checked the lens is the most important part in a camera. and pentax has prolly the best lens ever created.
03-08-2008, 01:55 AM   #4
Senior Member




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 239
Well, I could not expect anything else from RiceHigh. Alot of words and no pictures.

I would not listen to even a single word of a person, who never showed any real world (i.e. not tests) pictures.

So well, let him speak... And please, don't argue with him, this is all he actually wants.

03-08-2008, 02:25 AM   #5
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 255
I actually take his niggling comments as compliments to the K20D, if you have to reach so far to nitpick stuff like "The shutter button feels loose!" and "The body feels plasticy!" then its obvious there was a lot to do with the camera that he COULDN'T find fault with.

I could say the same about Canon, the cheapass rubber lugs they cram into the various input/output ports instead of a proper solid hinged cover. The stupid direct-print button on an expensive body. The lack of weatherproofing, mirror lockup and auto-iso.

Niggle, niggle.
03-08-2008, 02:54 AM   #6
Veteran Member
codiac2600's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Posts: 2,030
Blah Blah Blah Blah Garbage.

So I guess you didn't know that the Shake Reduction works while in Live View which is what causes that delay right?

Lag time is actually shorter, tested that against my water drops.

AF is more responsive than a Canon 40D and thats coming from the Canon tech guru that came to our camera store last week and took noted from the K20D to pass back to Canon cause he liked it so much.

You lied about the AF being exactly the same, because everyone who has handled the camera claims the AF seems faster and more responsive especially with an SDM lens attached.

Build quality... so being made out of a substance thats technically stronger than magnesium is cheap? Hmmmm, ok I want what you're on RH.

Ok, the Live View AF is the same as Canons 40D... you have a problem with that? Hmmm... oh not even the 1Ds MKIII af's in live view...

Why not buy a Canon or Nikon? You said it yourself that people don't have X dollars to spend. Whats funny is I've had two people sell off there entire Canon system to get the K20D and are actually happier with the K20D then their Canon systems which one was a 1Ds MKII and all L glass.

RH you make some bold statements that hold no water and you loose more credibility as a human being everyday.
03-08-2008, 03:06 AM   #7
raz
Senior Member




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Timisoara, Romania
Posts: 249
QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
whilst I believe that the K20D should be the best DSLR body ever made by Pentax in the Pentax land.
haha who do you think you are fooling ? You prayed so hard that K20D will be bad, I bet you even prayed that Pentax will not realase a K20D. And now you make your pathetic little review to get another bit of attention to your blog ? I'm so glad that K20D is proving to be a good camera, because I know you are suffering because of this and your review shows it.

QuoteQuote:
It just fell short of many things in the competition and by no means it is really a wise choice to choose by considering its relatively high price tag which it is just not worth by judging in any ways unless we are tied firmly to the Pentax system. Frankly, if I am starting from scratch, why not buy a D300 or a 40D at about the same price, which has better and faster AF, faster shooting frame rate, better build quality, less shutter lag, less "classic" Pentax specified and unique problems, a stronger and more comprehensive system, better customer support and so on.
You are so wrong. How can you say D300 is at the same price ? Here in Europe D300 is 50% more expensive. Even the 40D is more expensive, even if the canon was lunched 6 months ago ! God you are so biased...

Also you fail to mention the BIG advantages of the K20D compared to the 40D and D300 you keep praising here.
Let me say here the most important parts because you are to much of a Canon fanboy and pentax hater to remember these:

1)K20D is a lot cheaper than D300 (and cheaper even than 40D here in Europe).

2)In body Shake Reduction. This is a very big plus for Pentax that canon or nikon don't have. You can have every lens you put on the pentax stabilized and everybody can take advantage of this not having to pay very big bucks for heavy IS/VR lenses. I couldn't image living without SR now.

3)Resolution - a very big plus, K20D has almost 50% more pixels than 40D and 20% more than D300.

4)ISO, you have max 6400 on K20D and only 3200 on 40D.

5)Full body sealing on K20D compared to the pathetic 40D sealings.

6)Autofocus on K20D as well of others pentax dslr, is most of the time acurate, compared to canon.
03-08-2008, 04:02 AM   #8
Veteran Member
benjikan's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,312
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
Blah Blah Blah Blah Garbage.

So I guess you didn't know that the Shake Reduction works while in Live View which is what causes that delay right?

Lag time is actually shorter, tested that against my water drops.

AF is more responsive than a Canon 40D and thats coming from the Canon tech guru that came to our camera store last week and took noted from the K20D to pass back to Canon cause he liked it so much.

You lied about the AF being exactly the same, because everyone who has handled the camera claims the AF seems faster and more responsive especially with an SDM lens attached.

Build quality... so being made out of a substance thats technically stronger than magnesium is cheap? Hmmmm, ok I want what you're on RH.

Ok, the Live View AF is the same as Canons 40D... you have a problem with that? Hmmm... oh not even the 1Ds MKIII af's in live view...

Why not buy a Canon or Nikon? You said it yourself that people don't have X dollars to spend. Whats funny is I've had two people sell off there entire Canon system to get the K20D and are actually happier with the K20D then their Canon systems which one was a 1Ds MKII and all L glass.

RH you make some bold statements that hold no water and you loose more credibility as a human being everyday.

I will add to what Chris is saying...

As I sit here playing with my K20D's, I am still amazed by the build quality of this "TANK". As one who studied Architecture and within that subject Industrial Design, I find that the ergonomics to be exceptional. The way the battery grip "melds" in to the body rather than just being stuck on like an after thought has been very well designed. I haven't noticed a shutter lag issue at all. The design quality of the shutter release button is very well executed. In fact your analysis of the shutter release on the battery grip seemed strange as it hasn't changed since being introduced with the K10D. I find the AF very responsive and accurate. What you did not highlight was the fact that you can manually adjust the AF for up to 20 lenses if there are problems with specific lenses. I have handled both the Canon and Nikon you mentioned and find your comparison regarding build quality to be totally absurd. I would have come to a totally opposite conclusion. The reason I would do so is based on the fact that the Pentax is water proof and as a result the tolerances of the Pentax are extremely tight which gives it a very solid feel.

None the less thanks for your objective analysis.

Ben

03-08-2008, 04:11 AM   #9
Junior Member
dancel's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 49
this is the info on ricehigh's website i think he forgot certain parts.

RiceHigh

* Gender: Male
* Location: Hong Kong : China

About Me

I have been a photographer for 30 years and a Pentax (AF)SLR system user for 20 years. I own several Pentax film and DSLR bodies, along with an original Pentax lens collection of F, F*, FA, FA*, FA Limited, FAJ, DA, DFA lenses, from 16 to 300mm.

I also dont use this equipment I don't really know what photography is about, most of my equipment are still unpacked, not used I will be selling this items soon on ebay so i can pay off my Canon 5D which I don't use also.

I have been a photographer for 30 years and I have not taken any photos yet, I also put up other websites reviews and complain about them on my blogspot a.k.a Pentax equipment and how much i think Canon 5D is my soulmate and we will have full frame children together.


I also think that af speed and live view functions is more important than a detailed good image quality, So for all the Pentax fanboys you will hate me for this but K20D sucks. Pentax is inferior! you should buy a 5D.
03-08-2008, 04:33 AM   #10
Veteran Member
benjikan's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,312
QuoteOriginally posted by dancel Quote
this is the info on ricehigh's website i think he forgot certain parts.

RiceHigh

* Gender: Male
* Location: Hong Kong : China

About Me

I have been a photographer for 30 years and a Pentax (AF)SLR system user for 20 years. I own several Pentax film and DSLR bodies, along with an original Pentax lens collection of F, F*, FA, FA*, FA Limited, FAJ, DA, DFA lenses, from 16 to 300mm.

I also dont use this equipment I don't really know what photography is about, most of my equipment are still unpacked, not used I will be selling this items soon on ebay so i can pay off my Canon 5D which I don't use also.

I have been a photographer for 30 years and I have not taken any photos yet, I also put up other websites reviews and complain about them on my blogspot a.k.a Pentax equipment and how much i think Canon 5D is my soulmate and we will have full frame children together.


I also think that af speed and live view functions is more important than a detailed good image quality, So for all the Pentax fanboys you will hate me for this but K20D sucks. Pentax is inferior! you should buy a 5D.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...Now that IS really SCARRY...But Seriously....Yikes!

Ben
03-08-2008, 04:35 AM   #11
Veteran Member
ftpaddict's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Yurp
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,669
Go away, RH.
03-08-2008, 05:35 AM   #12
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,014
I think Rice High is a serious masochist. The way he talks about Pentax cameras looks sooooo painful, but he keeps going back for more
03-08-2008, 05:51 AM   #13
Veteran Member
roentarre's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 11,794
QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
AF is more responsive than a Canon 40D and thats coming from the Canon tech guru that came to our camera store last week and took noted from the K20D to pass back to Canon cause he liked it so much.

You lied about the AF being exactly the same, because everyone who has handled the camera claims the AF seems faster and more responsive especially with an SDM lens attached.
Thanks for shedding insight on that.

I tried most of the Fa limited and they did seem autofocus faster in bright day light. Still not so great in dark setting.

I only have one sdm lens = Da* 16-50 f2.8 which still backfocuses at f2.8 but it is way faster comparing to k10d.

Maybe it is time for me to grab Da*200 and 300 as well...
03-08-2008, 05:56 AM   #14
Veteran Member
benjikan's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,312
QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
Thanks for shedding insight on that.

I tried most of the Fa limited and they did seem autofocus faster in bright day light. Still not so great in dark setting.

I only have one sdm lens = Da* 16-50 f2.8 which still backfocuses at f2.8 but it is way faster comparing to k10d.

Maybe it is time for me to grab Da*200 and 300 as well...
Why don't you do the AF Adjust for the 16-50?

Ben
03-08-2008, 06:03 AM   #15
Veteran Member
mattdm's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,964
RiceHigh, is this impressions from playing with the camera in a store?
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
af, button, camera, dslr, k10d, k20d, live, mode, pentax, photography, release, shutter, system
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's the hands-on verdict - K-7 vs. K20D AF? emr Pentax DSLR Discussion 17 05-25-2009 06:45 AM
K20D - first impressions chse Pentax DSLR Discussion 25 10-03-2008 02:25 AM
First impressions on K20D Substitute Pentax DSLR Discussion 12 08-14-2008 01:46 AM
K20D my ''own'' first impressions... jgredline Pentax DSLR Discussion 22 03-26-2008 07:03 PM
Keep the K10D/K20D or go to D300 - A hands on test. matix Pentax DSLR Discussion 59 02-04-2008 02:54 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:18 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top