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03-10-2008, 12:46 AM   #16
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There's only one advantage I think Pentax has over the rest (OK, Canon ergo sucks on many levels, but still), and that's the little curve that your thumb rests in. Helps with a heavy lens more than anything else.

03-10-2008, 01:41 AM   #17
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I disagree,

Weight and ergonomics are two different subjects in my opinion.

If Pentax would be able to take 300 grams out of the K?0D series, they would make me very happy.
Less weight means less muscle tension, means better pictures.
It also means less weight on your shoulder the whole day. I'd like that!

What is the real positive effect of having a camera and lens weighing 600 grams more than an other model if the IQ, sealing and strength are the same? I can't figure that one.

Ergonomics is the other thing. I like the Pentax ergonomics very much except for the four way focus selection controller.
The dialling feature on the D200 works much, much, much better IMHO.
Not everything that C**** and N**** are doing is wrong you know.

The new Oly 420 with SR, Pentax ergonomics, menus and the new Samsung sensor replacing the fourthirds one they have now, I would seriously consider buying.

- Bert
03-10-2008, 07:23 AM   #18
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Why is it that people feel that light equates to less durability? Who ever said that a big heavy camera will endure abuse over a lighter one?

Drop a big heavy metal built camera from 3 feet and then drop a light polycarbonate camera from the same distance. Having seen metal cameras dropped on occasion, with the bent outer body casing, cracked pentaprisms, and various other carnage, the durability test definitely goes to the lighter polycarbonate bodied camera. They just survive better due to the flex of the outer shell, etc. Not to say that any camera should be abused in this way. Even if the materials are the same, a lighter camera should survive a fall better then a heavier one. That is physics to its simplest terms.

I agree, ergonomics and weight are two different things. Pentax has the ergonomics down to perfection. My Canon 20D feels like a brick compared to my K10D. However, even with that, the ergonomics on the 20D aren't that bad.
03-10-2008, 12:18 PM   #19
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I have a K10D and a mate of mine has the Canon 400D, I've used both and yes they are different and most comments in this thread apply. However he is very happy with his and I am very happy with mine and I must admit it does feel much better to me than the canon.

The only comment he made when he first saw the K10D was that he thought the top LCD panel was a good idea and wished he had it on his. Its likely not an issue for a novice or someone moving up from a point and shoot, but if Canon are aiming at attracting photographers then maybe they got it wrong by deleting this feature.

Regards
Brian

03-10-2008, 12:33 PM   #20
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And I somewhat disagree and say that weight and ergonomics are not two different subjects. Anyone who uses the grip will tell you the same. The grip and extra battery add a substantial amount of weight to the camera, yet the combination feels lighter than the camera alone. Because of the ergonomics, the weight is distributed much better when using the grip. And a lighter camera does not automatically make for more stable shooting. Put a light camera like an XTI in my hands, and the slightest little tremor will move the camera all over the place. The added weight of something in the range of my K10D provides a nice counter resistance and is far more stable in my hands. Hell whenever there's a time that anything needs to be made more stable, you look to add more weight, not subtract it.

Last edited by Jodokast96; 03-10-2008 at 12:38 PM.
03-10-2008, 12:39 PM   #21
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you guys are forgetting about personal physique as well.

some people simply have weak or unsteady hands.
03-10-2008, 01:46 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
And I somewhat disagree and say that weight and ergonomics are not two different subjects. Anyone who uses the grip will tell you the same. The grip and extra battery add a substantial amount of weight to the camera, yet the combination feels lighter than the camera alone. Because of the ergonomics, the weight is distributed much better when using the grip. And a lighter camera does not automatically make for more stable shooting. Put a light camera like an XTI in my hands, and the slightest little tremor will move the camera all over the place. The added weight of something in the range of my K10D provides a nice counter resistance and is far more stable in my hands. Hell whenever there's a time that anything needs to be made more stable, you look to add more weight, not subtract it.
I couldn't agree more. The added weight of a battery grip not only lowers the moment of inertia (steadies) but also adds to ergonomics with more opportunity to grip in different ways that stabilize the camera, especially when using a large/heavy lens. I have big hands so this is a must for me (without the grip, my pinky is hanging out all alone under the camera, he gets lonely).

03-10-2008, 04:37 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigben91682 Quote
I couldn't agree more.
And I couldn't disagree more (lucky we're different isn't it!) I find it easier to hold a light thing steady than a heavy thing, especially at the end of the day. I cope just fine with my 70-200/2.8 on my istDs, just wish they were both lighter...
03-10-2008, 07:43 PM   #24
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I manage a camera store, and one of the questions I always ask my customers is, "How does this feel in your hands?" I get as many different answers as I do customers. Many (especially those new to DSLRs) prefer the fact that Canon and Nikon entry-level cameras are substantially lighter than the K100D. Most of my staff is crazy about the Canon 40D, which I happen to think has a nice feel too). The Nikon D80 feels very comfy, but the buttons feel somehow spongy to me.

Personally, I love my K10D, but I think it feels better without the battery grip. I much prefer the more rounded battery grip on the XTI/400D.

So to answer the original question: the Canon 40D feels much more substantial than the XTI/400D - but it's still very subjective.

On a sidenote: if you get off on build quality and you're ever looking for a point-and-shoot, wrap your hands around an Olympus SP-550 some time. It's dropped substantially in price in anticipation of newer models, but it's 18x zoom and 15 fps burst make it an ideal back-up camera to supplement your SLR kit, and the overall feel rivals that of some semi-pro cameras.
03-10-2008, 07:46 PM   #25
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Incidentally, the sensor on the XTI that turns the LCD display off when you hold the camera up to your face is a welcome feature for an entry-level camera, and I occasionally wish the K10D had something similar. Nikon has copied this feature for their D60, and improved upon it by having the screen information rotate when you rotate the camera (an idea apparently lifted from Sony).
03-12-2008, 12:25 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Hell whenever there's a time that anything needs to be made more stable, you look to add more weight, not subtract it.
I'm sorry, your argument is related to how it feels instead of what is best. It is a subjective argument, somewhat driven by the fact that you are used to the weight.

Try and lift 5kg in front of you and then measure how long it takes before your hands will noticeably start to shake.
The same thing happens with lighter weights, however you don't see it, your camera does.
It is more noticeable with longer lenses and slower shutter speeds. Otherwise we would not need SR, tripods and the rest.

- Bert
03-12-2008, 12:33 PM   #27
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weight and stability are only related when you take into consideration how they are positioned in your hands.
03-13-2008, 01:45 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
Try and lift 5kg in front of you and then measure how long it takes before your hands will noticeably start to shake.
A Canon EOS 1D Mark II + EF 18-35 L can kill your wrists in a couple of minutes, if you're not careful. The voice of experience
03-21-2008, 06:50 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote
let's all jump on the canon bashwagaon :P (j/k) ... i don't have large hands but i found the xti kinda weird to hold, didn't seem to fit well, maybe that's why they've changed up the grip on the new XSi... prefer my pentax for sure, but canon have probably sold many more digital rebels than entry level pentaxes so they must be doing something right
yeah... perhapse marketing
03-21-2008, 07:02 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Vesuwalla Quote
Incidentally, the sensor on the XTI that turns the LCD display off when you hold the camera up to your face is a welcome feature for an entry-level camera, and I occasionally wish the K10D had something similar. Nikon has copied this feature for their D60, and improved upon it by having the screen information rotate when you rotate the camera (an idea apparently lifted from Sony).
Back in the film days.. a friend of mine shot Minolta and he had a Maxxium 7 and that LCD did rotate when you took vertical shots.. why pentax can't do this is silly to me.
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