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03-11-2008, 06:52 PM   #16
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Hmm, didn't notice this problem (or a bug?) until seeing this thread. I'm sure Pentax would come out w/ a firmware update to fix it. Otherwise I'd be pissed when I'm shooting fireworks in Aug. (our National Day)

03-11-2008, 06:58 PM   #17
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i forgot where i read it, and i might be off or totally wrong

but i think that at iso over a certain number, you dont get to turn off NR

i didnt read about long exposures.

its kind of rediculous not to be able to turn it off
03-13-2008, 07:56 PM   #18
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K200D and noise reduction

Played with a K200D today and it allows you to turn the long time exposure noise reduction off. The K20D must be a mistake. Should be a fix someday. Don't know if the K20D is merely labled wrong (so there is an off position) or if they missed it all together.
Not sure that liveview dof preview will give the exact same "feedback" as optical dof. It might. Have doubts though.
thanks
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03-14-2008, 09:31 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rickster Quote
I called Pentax USA Customer Support about this. Their initial response of the CS person was along the lines of "you have to be kidding" She is escalating the issue up the chain of command, said I will get an official response via email. This one is close to being a deal breaker for me but I still have my K10D.
Got this email from Pentax USA this morning ...
"Our other DSLRs that offered slow shutter speed noise reduction included the ability to toggle this on/off in Custom Settings. But you are right, it appears there is no option in the K20D to turn off slow shutter speed noise reduction. We have emailed Pentax in Japan to get some further information on K20D slow shutter speed noise reduction and I have asked them specifically if "Auto" or "On" (.3 sec. or longer) is the optimal preferred setting for users who would like to minimize the use of noise reduction in this camera. The reason the processing times are increased if noise reduction is active is that the camera must make an additional (essentially blank) reference exposure and compare this to the actual exposure to establish a baseline for removing extraneous noise. I will let you know what we find out.

Best Regards,
Dorian Black
Pentax Imaging Support Team"


03-14-2008, 03:22 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rickster Quote
Got this email from Pentax USA this morning ...
"Our other DSLRs that offered slow shutter speed noise reduction included the ability to toggle this on/off in Custom Settings. But you are right, it appears there is no option in the K20D to turn off slow shutter speed noise reduction. We have emailed Pentax in Japan to get some further information on K20D slow shutter speed noise reduction and I have asked them specifically if "Auto" or "On" (.3 sec. or longer) is the optimal preferred setting for users who would like to minimize the use of noise reduction in this camera. The reason the processing times are increased if noise reduction is active is that the camera must make an additional (essentially blank) reference exposure and compare this to the actual exposure to establish a baseline for removing extraneous noise. I will let you know what we find out.

Best Regards,
Dorian Black
Pentax Imaging Support Team"
Well that sounds promising! Please pass on what you learn, and thanks.
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03-14-2008, 06:27 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rickster Quote
if "Auto" or "On" (.3 sec. or longer) is the optimal preferred setting for users who would like to minimize the use of noise reduction in this camera.
I am not sure if this will fix it for us.


Seeing that K200D has the OFF setting, the situation is as simple as this:
- ALL CCD sensors (istD*, K100D, K10D, K200D) include dark frame off
- ALL CMOS sensors (K20D) don't include dark frame off for t>0.3s

I fear that this was made on purpose, i.e., that the CMSO sensor has a much noisier dark frame than the CCDs had. Pentax would be reluctant to disclose this by enabling an OFF feature.


We really have to communicate a strong use case where this is a deal breaker to make Japanese Pentax engineers change their mind they had already set up.

Like the fireworks scenario, astro with manual dark frame, landscape panorama or HDR.
03-14-2008, 07:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I am not sure if this will fix it for us.


Seeing that K200D has the OFF setting, the situation is as simple as this:
- ALL CCD sensors (istD*, K100D, K10D, K200D) include dark frame off
- ALL CMOS sensors (K20D) don't include dark frame off for t>0.3s

I fear that this was made on purpose, i.e., that the CMSO sensor has a much noisier dark frame than the CCDs had. Pentax would be reluctant to disclose this by enabling an OFF feature.


We really have to communicate a strong use case where this is a deal breaker to make Japanese Pentax engineers change their mind they had already set up.

Like the fireworks scenario, astro with manual dark frame, landscape panorama or HDR.
That thought had crossed my mind too. Perhaps the firmware update to fix this will come out after the review cycle is complete.
03-14-2008, 07:30 PM   #23
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Thanx for sharing Rickster. It started off good, but then I read...
QuoteOriginally posted by Rickster Quote
I have asked them specifically if "Auto" or "On" (.3 sec. or longer) is the optimal preferred setting for users who would like to minimize the use of noise reduction in this camera. The reason the processing times are increased if noise reduction is active is that the camera must make an additional (essentially blank) reference exposure and compare this to the actual exposure to establish a baseline for removing extraneous noise.
I would say to the responder.... errrr, Yes, we know what it does. But understand it doesn't do much good to "distill" the issue/problem when presenting it to the mothership. We don't want to minimize that noise reduction's operation, some of us want to negate it! Negate, not minimize, like we used to be able to.


Last edited by m8o; 03-14-2008 at 07:36 PM.
03-18-2008, 12:46 PM   #24
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agree, we need a software update

I noticed the lack of noise reduction on/off as well. Astrophotographers do nothing but gripe about how noisy CMOS sensors are compared to CCD during long exposures so likely Pentax tried to assuage this segment of the user base. I prefer to do the dark frame subtraction myself in post-processing. On the positive side, I am looking forward to trying the multi-exposure function with frame averaging for fireworks photos. I think this may prove to be a better method than trying to capture separate frames.
03-18-2008, 05:43 PM   #25
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If I were to consider a K20D it could be a deal breaker. I do astrophotography with my K110D and need the choice between in camera Noise Reduction and subtracting dark frames in the PC. It is odd that the Pentax CMOS sensor camera is the one that lacks NR off. OTOH many Canon CMOS cameras take fine astrophotos with dark subtraction done afterward on a PC.
03-19-2008, 01:00 AM   #26
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Pentax is aware of this.
I think it will be fixed in a firmware update.
04-28-2008, 11:54 PM   #27
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Any updates on this.
I am a 350D user with a small selection of lenses. So Canon lens legacy is not holding me back.
Right now I am sitting on the fence between K20D and 40D, but since night photography and star trail photography are my passion, this is a deal breaker.
Lots of times I take multiple 30 seconds exposures and stack them.
Without the ability to turn NR off, K20D is out of the window.
Heck, I was hoping to get a in camera SR, but I guess I will have to wait!
04-14-2009, 12:21 PM   #28
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Is the noise reduction active in Bulb mode?
04-14-2009, 12:26 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dom Quote
Is the noise reduction active in Bulb mode?
Yes.

DAZ
04-14-2009, 12:38 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dom Quote
Is the noise reduction active in Bulb mode?
QuoteOriginally posted by DAZ Quote
Yes.

DAZ
Well Pentax that is just a school boy error. They wonder why they haven't got a bigger market share.
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