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05-22-2013, 05:08 AM   #31
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frank

regardless of others saying you are doing it completely wrong, ignore them

right or wrong is simply a matter of personal preference, and what works for you.

I shoot mostly JPEG, and press the RAW+ button when i need or think I might want RAW.

Quite honestly, the whole issue is somewhat moot. many say shoot raw and if you are happy with jpeg settings just let a post processor run with it. In that case, other than wasting space you have accomplished nothing at all.

the arguments about having the raw file just in case, are minimal. and if you pay attention to the preview and histogram, when shooting there is no need to rescue images, because you dont screw them up in the first place.

05-22-2013, 07:56 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stormtech Quote
Thanks - I've done that in the past but hesitate to keep doing it as I end up with 2 large raw files of each image which would take up twice as much space.
When I'm done I get rid of which ever one I don't use. I also use a pair of external 1 Gb drives and delete any files that are useless to me. I bought them a couple of years ago, and have less than 400 Gb on each. One is a backup drive that is populated on import to LR using LR's backup settings.

Lowell has a point, but I work a bit differently than he does. Each of us has to work in his/her own way. I see no point in throwing information away until I'm sure I don't need it any more. Lowell is very careful when shooting, and seldom loses images.
05-22-2013, 11:42 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
When I'm done I get rid of which ever one I don't use. I also use a pair of external 1 Gb drives and delete any files that are useless to me. I bought them a couple of years ago, and have less than 400 Gb on each. One is a backup drive that is populated on import to LR using LR's backup settings.
Sounds like a good plan of which I am going to adopt now - thanks for sharing the info!
05-22-2013, 11:45 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
When I'm done I get rid of which ever one I don't use. I also use a pair of external 1 Gb drives and delete any files that are useless to me. I bought them a couple of years ago, and have less than 400 Gb on each. One is a backup drive that is populated on import to LR using LR's backup settings.
Should that be 1TB drives? I thought 1GB drives went out with the 1990's.

05-22-2013, 01:51 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by tomwil Quote
Should that be 1TB drives? I thought 1GB drives went out with the 1990's.
05-22-2013, 03:40 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote

Lowell has a point, but I work a bit differently than he does. Each of us has to work in his/her own way. I see no point in throwing information away until I'm sure I don't need it any more. Lowell is very careful when shooting, and seldom loses images.
Thanks Albert. I must point out that some time ago, I was accused of "pre post processing" by which the poster meant that I had considered my post processing approach in advance and set my JPEG settings to suit the conditions of WB, contrast , dynamic range of the scene, saturation etc. I still do this today.

As a result, my PP tweaks are minor, and I generally do not sharpen. BUT, that is really only suitable for normal photography where I am not planning for extreme PP, shooting either low key or high key where I still want a ton of fine definition in the image, etc... If I am going to shoot something that is going to be PP intensive, I will shoot raw. Same for very special events things I am only going to do once, and have no opportunity to do a retake, I switch to raw. But in reality those events are not all that common.

I see raw as a tool, same as JPEG each tool has pros and cons. Everyone, aside from all else have to do what suits you as an individual shooter. Don't simply do as others because it works for them, do it because it works for you
05-23-2013, 04:43 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
frank

regardless of others saying you are doing it completely wrong, ignore them

right or wrong is simply a matter of personal preference, and what works for you.

I shoot mostly JPEG, and press the RAW+ button when i need or think I might want RAW.

Quite honestly, the whole issue is somewhat moot. many say shoot raw and if you are happy with jpeg settings just let a post processor run with it. In that case, other than wasting space you have accomplished nothing at all.

the arguments about having the raw file just in case, are minimal. and if you pay attention to the preview and histogram, when shooting there is no need to rescue images, because you dont screw them up in the first place.
Thanks. I've been shooting for way too long to care about how others would say about me doing right or wrong And I totally agree with you on the last point.

Some of my friends are teaching photography. The other day I was having coffee w one of them, he said he purposely taught his students how to take proper jpg photos. He also thinks its far better to learn how to get it right in the first place than to come back and fix the problems later on.

Last edited by frank; 05-23-2013 at 06:01 AM.
05-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #38
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I always use RAW since JPEG is a lossy format. Once detail is lost it is gone forever.

The time to take pictures is the same: line up, copose, wait for 'the moment' and press the button.

Quick conversion of RAW to JPEG can be done in batch, which would give results equivalent to direct JPEG capture. Conversion does take a while. I rememebr a few long nights when I had to hand over pictures from dinner for use in a presentation to the same audience the next morning. (Someone else had the problem of choosing pictures and making the presentation.)

05-24-2013, 04:22 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by abmj Quote
Who says you cannot do any PP with a Jpeg?? That is just poppycock. You can't do AS MUCH as you can with a RAW but you can certainly do basic adjustments to a Jpeg.
abmj is correct, of course you can do PP with a jpg as many times as you like.
Although every time you do, that is another "save to jpg" and the jpg conversion engines deletes a large amount of what it decides is unnecessary data with each save. Not forgetting that when you shoot in jpg you have already done a convert and save in the camera ( no digital camera shoots "jpg" they shoot RAW then convert to jpg using the presets that you guess/hope might be right for the conditions and then SAVE it - then the camera commits what is the cardinal sin to me, it deletes the RAW file!!!!!!!) So you have already converted the file, saved it once and lost a large slab of the image data before you even get it to your computer.
But as the man once said if YOU are happy with the results you are getting........." whatever floats your boat."
Personally I prefer to shoot DNG then convert to TIFF, do all my PP and then save as a jpg ( 1 save ) and then delete the TIFF file. Yes it`s slow and time consuming, but 40 years of developing and printing my own negatives / slides individually has left me something of a photographic control freak.

Last edited by baldrick; 05-24-2013 at 04:29 AM. Reason: short fat fingers.
05-24-2013, 06:39 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by baldrick Quote
... Although every time you do, that is another "save to jpg" and the jpg conversion engines deletes a large amount of what it decides is unnecessary data with each save. ...
Which is why a better way to do this is to save to PSD. If you later want to go back and make other changes, you go to the PSD. From there, every "Save to JPG" is the first (aside from the original camera save), no matter how many times you do it instead of cumulative, which would just keep adding to the destruction. By using PSD, you only ever have a total of 2 saves to Jpg - the camera and the final save, and for electronic viewing that is really not very significant. Now if you are going to be printing, that is another story.

Don't get me wrong. If I am shooting for sale or print, I always shoot RAW. But if it is family events or other casual shooting, I don't have a problem with making edits to a Jpeg before posting on the web or e-mailing the shots to family and friends. It just saves a lot of time and nobody will ever see a difference.
05-24-2013, 06:44 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by abmj Quote
Don't get me wrong. If I am shooting for sale or print, I always shoot RAW. But if it is family events or other casual shooting, I don't have a problem with making edits to a Jpeg before posting on the web or e-mailing the shots to family and friends. It just saves a lot of time and nobody will ever see a difference.
does this mean family is less demanding or important than customers? Sorry couldnt resist. but it does raise a question.

If people don't notice, is raw necessary?
05-24-2013, 11:57 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lowell Goudge Quote
... If people don't notice, is raw necessary?
What I meant was that friends and family who see my photos only on the web or in e-mail aren't likely to notice a difference. Those images are reduced to file sizes I can easily send out anyway. If an image will be printed or submitted for publication, those same differences will undoubtedly be noticed so I wouldn't dream of just punching up a Jpeg for those purposes.

As for "Is RAW necessary?", that is a whole other question. In my view, yes, definitely. On the other hand, many pro sports shooters never shoot RAW. Even some others in slower, more traditional forms of photography aren't wedded to RAW. If you have ever read anything by famed wedding pro David Ziser (DigitalProTalk,com), he admits he is exclusively a Jpeg shooter. His stuff is beautiful but he takes great pains to light and pose his shots so they are absolutely right in-camera.

I don't claim any kind of expertise to even have an opinion on your question. However, FOR ME, RAW is important for shots I will sell or print. For web-only travel and family event shots, I usually shoot RAW+Jpg so I will have the RAW for the occasional high quality image I want to do more with. For the e-mail blog and Facebook though, Jpegs with a little tweaking in post are good enough and much, MUCH faster to handle. As for making the decision on which images are worthy of more work (RAW), my vision is not good enough to make that judgement from the camera LCD. I need to get the images back to my computer to sort those out and decide which RAWs to invest more work into. That is just my way. I am admittedly kind of a run-and-gun shooter. When I am in some exotic place, I will bring back hundreds of images each night. Only during the sort later in the hotel room do I know which are good and which few might be very good to great. Just because I tweak several Jpegs in FastStone or Elements to e-mail home doesn't mean I can't later take the RAWs of the same shots and really invest some time in getting one or two just right. I just don't want to be forced to do that for dozens of images I will blog back home while on the road, which is what used to happen when I only shot RAW.
06-07-2013, 03:13 PM   #43
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People always have their ways. I used to shoot a lot of Raw+Jpg to satisfy the family with JPG's and their needs for instant gratification as most of the family members and friends would rarely notice that I'm giving them a Jpg. I then usually go through and use the Raws for myself doing a quick batch with Lightroom with a default preset I set up that gets me close the first time and processes all the images in one swoop. Now I just use Raw because that Lightroom process is quick enough unless it is a family event where they want the photos before I can get home.

My personal advantage is that I have flexibility if I'm off a bit on the exposure and I can leave White Balance to Manual and so on. The other advantage I've found is that I can control lens effects better (distortion, vignetting, etc) with the RAWs that really leave artifacts when working with JPG. Again, most people probably wouldn't notice it, but I do.

When it comes to other people, I am always happy when I hear people look at a RAW file processed later that they recognize is better than the initial JPG. It is usually that side by side comparison that makes people see just how much control you can have if you exercise it.

Of course, everyone is welcome to their methods, but the K5 has really empowered RAW shooting for me. The only rare JPG is now when I am taking picture of a sign or information plaque or something else that will never see the light of day as a print. Then again, I rarely remember to change the settings for that.
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