Buying locally....(a grizzle)

Maxington · 03-12-2008, 07:22 PM

I understand all the various reasons for price differences, taxes, importing, shipping, population size and so on, but..

I don't care. Its a global market nowdays, and if I can click on a few things from my desk and find the item I require at a massively reduced cost, and get it delivered to my door, then poor business models for local stores is not my problem.

Local retailers are extra layer of middle-men tacking on costs, and with the internet, you can cut them out completely.

**Mallee Boy** · 03-12-2008, 08:47 PM

Hi Stewart,
I can not answer your questions, I am looking for the same answers. I hope I haven't come across as attacking anyone, certainly not my intention.

I do say in my original post that I would like to hear an explanation for the price differential, and I have a lot of sympathy for the local retailer trying to make a living, pay rent & wages etc. It aint easy, and I would like to support him if I could, but not at a 90+% mark up.

So far that has not been forthcoming...and I guess I really don't expect anyone to come forward because I think 'they' would be attempting to defend the indefensible.

Cheers
Grant

distudio · 03-13-2008, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

I'm not defending businesses in Australia, so please don't attack me if you disagree. I'm simply suggesting some possilities which might account for the price differences. Indeed, those price differences may be the result of everything mentioned above (combined) and perhaps other factors as well.

There is no duty of camera gear in Australia, just a flat 10% GST, which if the import is under a certain value is waived. Accounting for GST the prices for imports from the US (including freight) for lenses and various other accessories are generally much more cost effective. Strangely the only Pentax equipment that appears to be competitive (near parity pricing) are DSLR bodies, though this has only been the case of late.

dhulsmeyer · 03-13-2008, 05:21 AM

I'm in the US and experience the same phenomenon with regard to online v. local shop. Albeit to a lesser degree than you describe here it still exists. I'm just thankful to be living in the age of the internet where I have the option to compare prices at hundreds of retailers in mere minutes. An ideal situation for you guys to avoid paying that GST would be to have it shipped to someone in the US, who would in turn ship it on to you.

Edvinas · 03-13-2008, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by dhulsmeyer

An ideal situation for you guys to avoid paying that GST would be to have it shipped to someone in the US, who would in turn ship it on to you.

Australians don't have to pay GST for goods bought in overseas internet shops when value of goods is less than $1000. Most lenses are cheaper than that

distudio · 03-13-2008, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by dhulsmeyer

I'm in the US and experience the same phenomenon with regard to online v. local shop. Albeit to a lesser degree than you describe here it still exists. I'm just thankful to be living in the age of the internet where I have the option to compare prices at hundreds of retailers in mere minutes. An ideal situation for you guys to avoid paying that GST would be to have it shipped to someone in the US, who would in turn ship it on to you.

The GST is payable on the value of the goods and if they are misrepresented WRT value then on the value as assessed (which may be more or less than the actual cost).

WRT on-line shops, fortunately one of the best value on-line shops in Oz (as mentioned in this thread) is also my closest bricks and mortar shop, makes no difference unfortunately.

jshurak · 03-13-2008, 06:11 AM

you can usually haggle a little bit with prices. I've brought in print outs of online deals for some musical instruments and told the people that I would love to buy from my local shop but couldn't pass up a deal like that.....they usually give in.

cpopham · 03-13-2008, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by jshurak

you can usually haggle a little bit with prices. I've brought in print outs of online deals for some musical instruments and told the people that I would love to buy from my local shop but couldn't pass up a deal like that.....they usually give in.

If you try to push the camera shops here on price you quickly find out what the distributor is selling the goods for.

I feel genuinely sorry for my local camera store - they're great guys, give great advice and I would love to support them - I buy all my filters, bags, and other gear from them, but they just cannot sell me Pentax gear for less than somewhere between 150% and 200% of overseas prices - and often that's on order which will take weeks to arrive anyway.

It is rather sad actually - I've had some very informative chats with the staff there (who are all professional / semi professional photographers), and I'd really like to be able to repay them for that by buying higher value items from them, but they just don't have the goods to sell me. Basically, in NZ, Pentax is a brand without support from anyone. I suspect it's similar in Australia.

heatherslightbox · 03-13-2008, 09:28 AM

Sadly enough, the situation is very similar to that of my local camera store. They don't have much in the way of Pentax to begin with, so I tend to buy more accessory-type items from them.

Day before yesterday, I heard that they will be closing down after March 22. In a way, it's sad because all that will be left here (Gainesville, FL) is Ritz. In another way, I'm not that surprised because they are expensive, especially in the way of cameras and lenses. I'll be going over there this afternoon after work to see what they have in the way of deals.

Heather

Keith · 03-13-2008, 10:26 AM

When I purchased my K100D Super from Ted's in Melbourne it was about $80 cheaper than the grey market asian version via ebay and also cheaper than other online sources worldwide.

I must say that trying to find any accessories or lenses at the right price is impossible from Australia. The top of the line Pentax flash has a $200 premium if purchased here.

I have looked around from time to time and it seems that you can get the camera or kit at a reasonable price (sometimes) but forget the accessories - importing is the only way to go for these.

As for local importers having to pay GST and duties ..... are these duties and costs are more than other countries?? I don't think our import and GST costs are too bad these days and is probably on par with the rest of the world.

Old fashioned distributors who are stuck in the dark ages is probably the problem. I always feel proud when I buy locally and support our industries but that pride is lost when I get ripped off so I am happy to support the US or Asian countries if they give a better deal

Cheers
Keith

Bramela · 03-13-2008, 01:07 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with Keith. I have bought much of my gear in US/Canada and Asia. I did purchase my k10d from DCW.
I do check out prices in Aus first, hoping to support local business, but , in comparison to off shore, it usually works out a total no goer.

Surely Australian business can extract the digit and put in some effort to become more competitive. They would pick up the difference in greater trade volume one would think.

**Mallee Boy** · 03-13-2008, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by cpopham

If you try to push the camera shops here on price you quickly find out what the distributor is selling the goods for.

I feel genuinely sorry for my local camera store - they're great guys, give great advice and I would love to support them - I buy all my filters, bags, and other gear from them, but they just cannot sell me Pentax gear for less than somewhere between 150% and 200% of overseas prices - and often that's on order which will take weeks to arrive anyway.

It is rather sad actually - I've had some very informative chats with the staff there (who are all professional / semi professional photographers), and I'd really like to be able to repay them for that by buying higher value items from them, but they just don't have the goods to sell me. Basically, in NZ, Pentax is a brand without support from anyone. I suspect it's similar in Australia.

So, so true.
My daughter has just gone through the (highly frustrating) exercise in NZ trying to buy a K200D or a K10D......she ended up with an alternate brand because it was just simpler and easier to do so. Some dealers openly admitted to knowing nothing about Pentax....something that Pentax should take note of.

Edvinas · 03-14-2008, 01:03 AM

Originally posted by Keith

As for local importers having to pay GST and duties ..... are these duties and costs are more than other countries?? I don't think our import and GST costs are too bad these days and is probably on par with the rest of the world.

In Europe import tax for photo equipment is 5,6% (if I am not mistaken) and VAT ~20% (vary country by country).

Keith · 03-15-2008, 04:13 AM

In Australia I believe that importers need to pay a 5% import duty and then we get hit with10% GST to the retail price.... this is a looooog way short of the extra that we usually have to pay.

Cheers
Keith

distudio · 03-15-2008, 04:52 AM

Originally posted by Keith

In Australia I believe that importers need to pay a 5% import duty and then we get hit with10% GST to the retail price.... this is a looooog way short of the extra that we usually have to pay.

There is no duty on photographic equipment in Australia, the only added cost apart from freight is GST.

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03-12-2008, 07:22 PM	#16
Maxington Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 255	I understand all the various reasons for price differences, taxes, importing, shipping, population size and so on, but.. I don't care. Its a global market nowdays, and if I can click on a few things from my desk and find the item I require at a massively reduced cost, and get it delivered to my door, then poor business models for local stores is not my problem. Local retailers are extra layer of middle-men tacking on costs, and with the internet, you can cut them out completely.

03-12-2008, 08:47 PM	#17
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904 Original Poster	Hi Stewart, I can not answer your questions, I am looking for the same answers. I hope I haven't come across as attacking anyone, certainly not my intention. I do say in my original post that I would like to hear an explanation for the price differential, and I have a lot of sympathy for the local retailer trying to make a living, pay rent & wages etc. It aint easy, and I would like to support him if I could, but not at a 90+% mark up. So far that has not been forthcoming...and I guess I really don't expect anyone to come forward because I think 'they' would be attempting to defend the indefensible. Cheers Grant

03-13-2008, 03:52 AM	#18
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by stewart_photo I'm not defending businesses in Australia, so please don't attack me if you disagree. I'm simply suggesting some possilities which might account for the price differences. Indeed, those price differences may be the result of everything mentioned above (combined) and perhaps other factors as well. There is no duty of camera gear in Australia, just a flat 10% GST, which if the import is under a certain value is waived. Accounting for GST the prices for imports from the US (including freight) for lenses and various other accessories are generally much more cost effective. Strangely the only Pentax equipment that appears to be competitive (near parity pricing) are DSLR bodies, though this has only been the case of late.

03-13-2008, 05:21 AM	#19
dhulsmeyer Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio USA Posts: 51	I'm in the US and experience the same phenomenon with regard to online v. local shop. Albeit to a lesser degree than you describe here it still exists. I'm just thankful to be living in the age of the internet where I have the option to compare prices at hundreds of retailers in mere minutes. An ideal situation for you guys to avoid paying that GST would be to have it shipped to someone in the US, who would in turn ship it on to you.

03-13-2008, 05:33 AM	#20
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by dhulsmeyer An ideal situation for you guys to avoid paying that GST would be to have it shipped to someone in the US, who would in turn ship it on to you. Australians don't have to pay GST for goods bought in overseas internet shops when value of goods is less than $1000. Most lenses are cheaper than that

03-13-2008, 05:35 AM	#21
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by dhulsmeyer I'm in the US and experience the same phenomenon with regard to online v. local shop. Albeit to a lesser degree than you describe here it still exists. I'm just thankful to be living in the age of the internet where I have the option to compare prices at hundreds of retailers in mere minutes. An ideal situation for you guys to avoid paying that GST would be to have it shipped to someone in the US, who would in turn ship it on to you. The GST is payable on the value of the goods and if they are misrepresented WRT value then on the value as assessed (which may be more or less than the actual cost). WRT on-line shops, fortunately one of the best value on-line shops in Oz (as mentioned in this thread) is also my closest bricks and mortar shop, makes no difference unfortunately.

03-13-2008, 06:11 AM	#22
jshurak Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia Posts: 626	you can usually haggle a little bit with prices. I've brought in print outs of online deals for some musical instruments and told the people that I would love to buy from my local shop but couldn't pass up a deal like that.....they usually give in.

03-13-2008, 06:29 AM	#23
cpopham Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Auckland Posts: 553	Originally posted by jshurak you can usually haggle a little bit with prices. I've brought in print outs of online deals for some musical instruments and told the people that I would love to buy from my local shop but couldn't pass up a deal like that.....they usually give in. If you try to push the camera shops here on price you quickly find out what the distributor is selling the goods for. I feel genuinely sorry for my local camera store - they're great guys, give great advice and I would love to support them - I buy all my filters, bags, and other gear from them, but they just cannot sell me Pentax gear for less than somewhere between 150% and 200% of overseas prices - and often that's on order which will take weeks to arrive anyway. It is rather sad actually - I've had some very informative chats with the staff there (who are all professional / semi professional photographers), and I'd really like to be able to repay them for that by buying higher value items from them, but they just don't have the goods to sell me. Basically, in NZ, Pentax is a brand without support from anyone. I suspect it's similar in Australia.

03-13-2008, 09:28 AM	#24
heatherslightbox Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gainesville, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,599	Sadly enough, the situation is very similar to that of my local camera store. They don't have much in the way of Pentax to begin with, so I tend to buy more accessory-type items from them. Day before yesterday, I heard that they will be closing down after March 22. In a way, it's sad because all that will be left here (Gainesville, FL) is Ritz. In another way, I'm not that surprised because they are expensive, especially in the way of cameras and lenses. I'll be going over there this afternoon after work to see what they have in the way of deals. Heather

03-13-2008, 10:26 AM	#25
Keith Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne (Cranbourne) Australia Posts: 121	When I purchased my K100D Super from Ted's in Melbourne it was about $80 cheaper than the grey market asian version via ebay and also cheaper than other online sources worldwide. I must say that trying to find any accessories or lenses at the right price is impossible from Australia. The top of the line Pentax flash has a $200 premium if purchased here. I have looked around from time to time and it seems that you can get the camera or kit at a reasonable price (sometimes) but forget the accessories - importing is the only way to go for these. As for local importers having to pay GST and duties ..... are these duties and costs are more than other countries?? I don't think our import and GST costs are too bad these days and is probably on par with the rest of the world. Old fashioned distributors who are stuck in the dark ages is probably the problem. I always feel proud when I buy locally and support our industries but that pride is lost when I get ripped off so I am happy to support the US or Asian countries if they give a better deal Cheers Keith

03-13-2008, 01:07 PM	#26
Bramela Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Newcastle Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,284	I agree wholeheartedly with Keith. I have bought much of my gear in US/Canada and Asia. I did purchase my k10d from DCW. I do check out prices in Aus first, hoping to support local business, but , in comparison to off shore, it usually works out a total no goer. Surely Australian business can extract the digit and put in some effort to become more competitive. They would pick up the difference in greater trade volume one would think.

03-13-2008, 02:32 PM	#27
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904 Original Poster	Originally posted by cpopham If you try to push the camera shops here on price you quickly find out what the distributor is selling the goods for. I feel genuinely sorry for my local camera store - they're great guys, give great advice and I would love to support them - I buy all my filters, bags, and other gear from them, but they just cannot sell me Pentax gear for less than somewhere between 150% and 200% of overseas prices - and often that's on order which will take weeks to arrive anyway. It is rather sad actually - I've had some very informative chats with the staff there (who are all professional / semi professional photographers), and I'd really like to be able to repay them for that by buying higher value items from them, but they just don't have the goods to sell me. Basically, in NZ, Pentax is a brand without support from anyone. I suspect it's similar in Australia. So, so true. My daughter has just gone through the (highly frustrating) exercise in NZ trying to buy a K200D or a K10D......she ended up with an alternate brand because it was just simpler and easier to do so. Some dealers openly admitted to knowing nothing about Pentax....something that Pentax should take note of.

03-14-2008, 01:03 AM	#28
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by Keith As for local importers having to pay GST and duties ..... are these duties and costs are more than other countries?? I don't think our import and GST costs are too bad these days and is probably on par with the rest of the world. In Europe import tax for photo equipment is 5,6% (if I am not mistaken) and VAT ~20% (vary country by country).

03-15-2008, 04:13 AM	#29
Keith Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Melbourne (Cranbourne) Australia Posts: 121	In Australia I believe that importers need to pay a 5% import duty and then we get hit with10% GST to the retail price.... this is a looooog way short of the extra that we usually have to pay. Cheers Keith

03-15-2008, 04:52 AM	#30
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by Keith In Australia I believe that importers need to pay a 5% import duty and then we get hit with10% GST to the retail price.... this is a looooog way short of the extra that we usually have to pay. There is no duty on photographic equipment in Australia, the only added cost apart from freight is GST.