Is it true?!

aleonx3 · 03-13-2008, 11:50 AM

I think those who use Canon and Nikon don't really spend time researching on other brands, or they are misguided by advertising or sales person (I don't want to generalize but those I know, they are

). It is true that the camera stores stock Canon and Nikon more than other brands. But most who end up buying the Canon and Nikon are not because they ask for that brand - they were sold because they don't know better.

I always get a weird look from the Sales person when I ask to take a look at the Pentax camera or trying the Pentax lens. I like the fact that you can use pretty much all the lens Pentax made during the film dates including manual lens. I also like the SR body better than the IS on the lens (regardless of what other people think), it is more economical. Plus all the features on the K10D at half the price of what the other cameras would demand.

I also think that the supply and demand works in our favour. If the Canon and Nikon folks started to realize that their system is crappy compare to Pentax, we will have to pay more for the Pentax gear for sure.

madisonphotogrl · 03-13-2008, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by ncinpa

If you are committed to purchasing products from what your local camera store has on the shelf on any given day, then the range and availability of Pentax products is going to be limited and disappointing compared to Canon and Nikon. But if you are willing to (a) wait for your local camera store to order stuff for you or (b) purchase from on-line retailers, then unless you are a very high-end professional, the range and availability of Pentax products is very likely to exceed your skill set.

And by using the phrase "your skill set," please understand I don't mean that in a condensending manner. My personal photographic skill set was pretty much left in the dust, never to catch up, when I started using a Kodak 110 Instamatic with the flash cubes on top in 1971. I have always had way more camera than I knew what to do with.

No offense at all. I just don't want to spend $$ on something to redo in a 2 years because I have grown...

MikeD · 03-13-2008, 12:27 PM

I just went through an exhausting process to get a DSLR in my price range. I picked the K10D for the following reasons. It has pro level dust and water seals, in camera shake reduction (big savings on lenses). And a very nice line-up of lenses. The Canon D40 shoots faster appox 6 frames V 3 for the Pentax, but doesn't have the sealing and in camera shake reduction it does have a great 3" screen v the 2" on the Pentax. The D40 focuses faster in low light, if it is faster in average light I can't tell a difference. The Nikon D80 doesn't have what the Pentax has as far as sealing and shake reduction, with Nikon you'd have to jump to the new D300 to beat the Pentax. In my estimation you'd almost have to double your expenditure for a body only to beat the K10D. So if you've got the $ take a hard look at the D300 and then go buy the K20D. The only area Pentax really lacks in my estimation is in high speed shooting where you might want 6+ frames per second.

aegisphan · 03-13-2008, 12:33 PM

When you buy in a system, it's more about lens than a body. Pentax lens, especially prime, is among the highest quality you can find from any brand. These lenses are pro grade. So if you can actually grow beyond that, I think only medium format would be your answer, not another 35mm system.

The big negative point at the moment for Pentax system is poor low light AF ability, and not competitive tracking AF. FPS is also kind of a problem (though 3fps is much plenty for me). So Pentax does have major problem with Sport/Fast action shooting for people relying on auto focus. Low light photography is also more difficult at time if you rely solely on the AF system.

With that said, you can buy the K10D or K20D, with a good prime (any DA or FA limited), then do a comparative shoot out with your friend. You might even convert that guy to a Pentaxian.

BrendanPK · 03-13-2008, 12:34 PM

Pentax is a great system. granted it has its limitations, but thoes are often overcome or are limited to specfic rair situations.
What you need to do is figure out what your going to be photographing (I am guessing your looking at becoming a full-time photographer right?
If so, what type? Portorait, wedding, sports, newspaper/jack-of-all trades, coporate/studio/comercial
If you were going to be doing say sports, Pentax is not the best system right now. Limited in long (telephoto) glass slection and lack of a high FPS body are its 2 major disadvantages, but these can be overcome, Look at me and Mark Dimolata (sp?) I am a photojournalist, cover many sporting events/games and work the pentaxes fine, Mark is a top surfing photographer and loves the equpiment and gets covers, spreads etc all the time in mags. Both of us have on ocasion wished for higher FPS and ease of finding long-fast glass but we have overcome it and become better shooters, learning to watch and predict the action better in many cases.
THe only real advantage I would have sometimes is in lacross, I would have more ball just coming out of the pocket shots if I had more FPS, but overall thats not the most important factor.

Weddings, portoraits etc, Pentax is fine. Your not working as fast, dont need a 300mm often and the image results esp from low ISO are great.

Both Nikon and Canon make great systems. Many times I have looked over into the Nikon Camp and almost went with the D2x but lack of major funds stoped me, and I am happy now with my K20D, and not spending 3-5K on a body. Canon has never really entised me. I have worked with most of their pro bodies up to the MK2 and even have an XTI(got it as a gift) but overall I pefer Pentax and Nikon (IMHO they are very simular setups)

Weigh your options and than deside. Glass, Flashes, bodies etc. Its all a personal choice and based on what you need/demand ex. you need a super fast 200mm, Pentax's fastest is 2.8, both N+C have F2 (one full stop faster) Also Pentax does not make a 500mm F4 (sigma makes a K mount 500mm F4.5) the 600mm F4 are hard to come by in Pentax, not in the other 2
Wide lenses, they are all about same now, same w/ the mid-range. (esp in the "pro" quality section
Flash, well Nikon still tops on flash tech, and Canon has more assories ec. than Pentax for flashes, but do you really need some of these aditional things?

Well good luck
~BrendanPK

Bramela · 03-13-2008, 12:48 PM

Got to be way wide of the mark. A system such as the K10d ( among others) has got to be one of the best when you go out and buy 50mm or 135 mm etc lens, many years old , built like a tank for under $100 and come up with superb shots/ I think "limited" is about the thinking expressed and certainly nothing more in this case.

**pixelsaurus** · 03-13-2008, 01:10 PM

I have never felt limited by Pentax,all my old bits fit my *ist DS. I am not about to change my gear to be in with any in crowd, bsides I'm way too stingy,

Shashinki · 03-13-2008, 01:34 PM

Pentax factoid: System with a lot of great Limited lenses!

I use all my Limited lenses with great joy, and feel that I have a much better system for my use than any other brand. I hope Pentax make a lot more Limited lenses.

It is true that these Limited lenses have limited use in sports or action photography though... Then you would have to use Pentax lenses that are not Limited. Still, they are cheaper and do all have built-in Shake Reduction, but they will have to suffice for now.

mattdm · 03-13-2008, 01:37 PM

Everyone here is very enthusiastic about Pentax so you're going to get some, well, enthusiastic answers. But I don't want you to end up disappointed in the long run, so read on.

The true answer is that yes, Pentax (like Sony and Olympus, the other "tier two" camera makers) doesn't currently offer the vast scope of options presented by the market-dominators Canon and Nikon. There's fewer lens options (both on-brand and third-party), fewer flash options, fewer accessories, etc., etc. If you want something special purpose, you may be out of luck.

I have a Pentax catalog that came with my grandmother's K1000, a film camera she purchased in the early 1980s or late 1970s. It's kind of disappointing to look at all the options they offered back then compared to now.

But, there's three important items of good news.

First, all of those lenses from that old catalog still work with modern cameras. That's pretty cool. (Canon, not so much. Nikon to a lesser degree, as I understand it.)

Second, Pentax as a company really seems to be "waking up" and moving in a good direction again, as the phenomenal K10D attests and what we've seen so far in the K20D confirms. I think the future is good.

And finally, Pentax offers a very compelling value proposition for the areas that it does cover well — and, they do offer a reasonably diverse "ecosystem" with all of the bases covered to some degree and some real strengths in some areas. Pentax's prime lenses are very highly regarded and can cost significantly less than equivalents from other makers.

So, as someone else said, what you really need to do is look at what you want to do, and see how well Pentax fits your needs.

Robert Barnett · 03-13-2008, 01:47 PM

My first dSLR was a Canon 20D and I hated it and I to this day hate Canon. You might want to ask your friend what he means by limited. I don't think 24 million lenses available that will work with even today's dSLR cameras is not my idea of Limited. Neither Nikon nor Canon can boast you can use all of the lenses they ever made on todays cameras.

Now I will grant that Pentax isn't a brand thought of like it used to be. In fact corner 100 people on the street and ask them to name 5 camera brands and I bet you no a one will mention Pentax.

The answer your friend gives as to what he means by limited will tell you if he just has a bias or he thought of something others haven't.

Robert

Torphoto · 03-13-2008, 01:50 PM

Strangely I was toying with the idea of getting into another system. I tried the 40D and D200 last year, both for a few months as well as the K10D and I was not completely happy with any of them for various reasons. Now the K20D is here I ordered one as IQ is to me more important than having the fastest af or fps. I'm mostly a prime shooter anyway so naturally I remigrated back to Pentax easily. I also have the respect of my Non Pentax shooting peers, I never got any flak for using Pentax either as with them, it was the results that counted.

Flip side to this was a student with obviously too much money questioned me about my *isTD. He could not understand why I would use a manual focus lens on a digital camera and claimed that his ( at the time ) D70 was far superior to any other camera on the planet with his bag of 5-6 lenses ( some nice pro zooms to! ). The irony of it all was that despite the impressive collection of lenses he used a 28-300 with the AF set to auto select and auto iso most of the time. He scoffed at using raw as it was too much work as the images from his camera would be good since it was a nikon. You can't help but laugh inside sometimes :XD

madisonphotogrl · 03-13-2008, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Depends on what lenses you want.
E.g., go try and get a 70-200/2.8 in a Pentax mount now and you can't get it new (until Sigma/Tamron release theirs in the later half of the year).
Pentax doesn't have the new tilt-shift lenses Nikon just released for the architectural folks.
Pentax doesn't have the 1000mm $10K lenses that Canon has for sports shooters.

So, the answer is, it depends on what he meant and what you want. If what he meant is not something you want, it doesn't really matter ;-)

I see. I can see someone who has "special" lens needs changing to Pentax and not being satisfied.. I have to remember I am not a professional..... yet!

madisonphotogrl · 03-13-2008, 02:07 PM

Totphoto.. that is too funny! I think some people are too into the electronic and not the photography. I really wish film wasn't so expensive to develop or that I had space for a darkroom. It's too techie now...

madisonphotogrl · 03-13-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by BrendanPK

, Pentax's fastest is 2.8, both N+C have F2 (one full stop faster) Also Pentax does not make a 500mm F4 (sigma makes a K mount 500mm F4.5) the 600mm F4

Well good luck
~BrendanPK

I have seen a 50mm 1.7 lense by Pentax too

madisonphotogrl · 03-13-2008, 02:17 PM

Short and simple.. I am a woman in her late 20's trying to get a decent camera set while I have the extra funds... Before the house and kids come.. I think I am feeling the funds depleating since I am getting married in June. The fiance' and I are committing to saving for a house after our wedding. So I am trying to get something to satisfy my photo itch and pasify my creative craving. I had to beg and bribe my fiance' to get the K10D and I just wanted some reassurance I was investing in a nice brand.. I do feel I am.. thanks..

03-13-2008, 01:37 PM	#24
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	It IS true, but.... Everyone here is very enthusiastic about Pentax so you're going to get some, well, enthusiastic answers. But I don't want you to end up disappointed in the long run, so read on. The true answer is that yes, Pentax (like Sony and Olympus, the other "tier two" camera makers) doesn't currently offer the vast scope of options presented by the market-dominators Canon and Nikon. There's fewer lens options (both on-brand and third-party), fewer flash options, fewer accessories, etc., etc. If you want something special purpose, you may be out of luck. I have a Pentax catalog that came with my grandmother's K1000, a film camera she purchased in the early 1980s or late 1970s. It's kind of disappointing to look at all the options they offered back then compared to now. But, there's three important items of good news. First, all of those lenses from that old catalog still work with modern cameras. That's pretty cool. (Canon, not so much. Nikon to a lesser degree, as I understand it.) Second, Pentax as a company really seems to be "waking up" and moving in a good direction again, as the phenomenal K10D attests and what we've seen so far in the K20D confirms. I think the future is good. And finally, Pentax offers a very compelling value proposition for the areas that it does cover well — and, they do offer a reasonably diverse "ecosystem" with all of the bases covered to some degree and some real strengths in some areas. Pentax's prime lenses are very highly regarded and can cost significantly less than equivalents from other makers. So, as someone else said, what you really need to do is look at what you want to do, and see how well Pentax fits your needs.

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03-13-2008, 11:50 AM	#16
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	I think those who use Canon and Nikon don't really spend time researching on other brands, or they are misguided by advertising or sales person (I don't want to generalize but those I know, they are ). It is true that the camera stores stock Canon and Nikon more than other brands. But most who end up buying the Canon and Nikon are not because they ask for that brand - they were sold because they don't know better. I always get a weird look from the Sales person when I ask to take a look at the Pentax camera or trying the Pentax lens. I like the fact that you can use pretty much all the lens Pentax made during the film dates including manual lens. I also like the SR body better than the IS on the lens (regardless of what other people think), it is more economical. Plus all the features on the K10D at half the price of what the other cameras would demand. I also think that the supply and demand works in our favour. If the Canon and Nikon folks started to realize that their system is crappy compare to Pentax, we will have to pay more for the Pentax gear for sure.

03-13-2008, 12:05 PM	#17
madisonphotogrl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 270 Original Poster	Originally posted by ncinpa If you are committed to purchasing products from what your local camera store has on the shelf on any given day, then the range and availability of Pentax products is going to be limited and disappointing compared to Canon and Nikon. But if you are willing to (a) wait for your local camera store to order stuff for you or (b) purchase from on-line retailers, then unless you are a very high-end professional, the range and availability of Pentax products is very likely to exceed your skill set. And by using the phrase "your skill set," please understand I don't mean that in a condensending manner. My personal photographic skill set was pretty much left in the dust, never to catch up, when I started using a Kodak 110 Instamatic with the flash cubes on top in 1971. I have always had way more camera than I knew what to do with. No offense at all. I just don't want to spend $$ on something to redo in a 2 years because I have grown...

03-13-2008, 12:27 PM	#18
MikeD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: traverse city MI Posts: 346	I just went through an exhausting process to get a DSLR in my price range. I picked the K10D for the following reasons. It has pro level dust and water seals, in camera shake reduction (big savings on lenses). And a very nice line-up of lenses. The Canon D40 shoots faster appox 6 frames V 3 for the Pentax, but doesn't have the sealing and in camera shake reduction it does have a great 3" screen v the 2" on the Pentax. The D40 focuses faster in low light, if it is faster in average light I can't tell a difference. The Nikon D80 doesn't have what the Pentax has as far as sealing and shake reduction, with Nikon you'd have to jump to the new D300 to beat the Pentax. In my estimation you'd almost have to double your expenditure for a body only to beat the K10D. So if you've got the $ take a hard look at the D300 and then go buy the K20D. The only area Pentax really lacks in my estimation is in high speed shooting where you might want 6+ frames per second.

03-13-2008, 12:33 PM	#19
aegisphan Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Mexico Posts: 815	When you buy in a system, it's more about lens than a body. Pentax lens, especially prime, is among the highest quality you can find from any brand. These lenses are pro grade. So if you can actually grow beyond that, I think only medium format would be your answer, not another 35mm system. The big negative point at the moment for Pentax system is poor low light AF ability, and not competitive tracking AF. FPS is also kind of a problem (though 3fps is much plenty for me). So Pentax does have major problem with Sport/Fast action shooting for people relying on auto focus. Low light photography is also more difficult at time if you rely solely on the AF system. With that said, you can buy the K10D or K20D, with a good prime (any DA or FA limited), then do a comparative shoot out with your friend. You might even convert that guy to a Pentaxian.

03-13-2008, 12:34 PM	#20
BrendanPK Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 735	Pentax is a great system. granted it has its limitations, but thoes are often overcome or are limited to specfic rair situations. What you need to do is figure out what your going to be photographing (I am guessing your looking at becoming a full-time photographer right? If so, what type? Portorait, wedding, sports, newspaper/jack-of-all trades, coporate/studio/comercial If you were going to be doing say sports, Pentax is not the best system right now. Limited in long (telephoto) glass slection and lack of a high FPS body are its 2 major disadvantages, but these can be overcome, Look at me and Mark Dimolata (sp?) I am a photojournalist, cover many sporting events/games and work the pentaxes fine, Mark is a top surfing photographer and loves the equpiment and gets covers, spreads etc all the time in mags. Both of us have on ocasion wished for higher FPS and ease of finding long-fast glass but we have overcome it and become better shooters, learning to watch and predict the action better in many cases. THe only real advantage I would have sometimes is in lacross, I would have more ball just coming out of the pocket shots if I had more FPS, but overall thats not the most important factor. Weddings, portoraits etc, Pentax is fine. Your not working as fast, dont need a 300mm often and the image results esp from low ISO are great. Both Nikon and Canon make great systems. Many times I have looked over into the Nikon Camp and almost went with the D2x but lack of major funds stoped me, and I am happy now with my K20D, and not spending 3-5K on a body. Canon has never really entised me. I have worked with most of their pro bodies up to the MK2 and even have an XTI(got it as a gift) but overall I pefer Pentax and Nikon (IMHO they are very simular setups) Weigh your options and than deside. Glass, Flashes, bodies etc. Its all a personal choice and based on what you need/demand ex. you need a super fast 200mm, Pentax's fastest is 2.8, both N+C have F2 (one full stop faster) Also Pentax does not make a 500mm F4 (sigma makes a K mount 500mm F4.5) the 600mm F4 are hard to come by in Pentax, not in the other 2 Wide lenses, they are all about same now, same w/ the mid-range. (esp in the "pro" quality section Flash, well Nikon still tops on flash tech, and Canon has more assories ec. than Pentax for flashes, but do you really need some of these aditional things? Well good luck ~BrendanPK

03-13-2008, 12:48 PM	#21
Bramela Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Newcastle Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,284	Got to be way wide of the mark. A system such as the K10d ( among others) has got to be one of the best when you go out and buy 50mm or 135 mm etc lens, many years old , built like a tank for under $100 and come up with superb shots/ I think "limited" is about the thinking expressed and certainly nothing more in this case.

03-13-2008, 01:10 PM	#22
pixelsaurus Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Te Kuiti, NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 986	I have never felt limited by Pentax,all my old bits fit my *ist DS. I am not about to change my gear to be in with any in crowd, bsides I'm way too stingy,

03-13-2008, 01:34 PM	#23
Shashinki Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 355	Pentax factoid: System with a lot of great Limited lenses! I use all my Limited lenses with great joy, and feel that I have a much better system for my use than any other brand. I hope Pentax make a lot more Limited lenses. It is true that these Limited lenses have limited use in sports or action photography though... Then you would have to use Pentax lenses that are not Limited. Still, they are cheaper and do all have built-in Shake Reduction, but they will have to suffice for now.

03-13-2008, 01:47 PM	#25
Robert Barnett Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 65	My first dSLR was a Canon 20D and I hated it and I to this day hate Canon. You might want to ask your friend what he means by limited. I don't think 24 million lenses available that will work with even today's dSLR cameras is not my idea of Limited. Neither Nikon nor Canon can boast you can use all of the lenses they ever made on todays cameras. Now I will grant that Pentax isn't a brand thought of like it used to be. In fact corner 100 people on the street and ask them to name 5 camera brands and I bet you no a one will mention Pentax. The answer your friend gives as to what he means by limited will tell you if he just has a bias or he thought of something others haven't. Robert

03-13-2008, 01:50 PM	#26
Torphoto Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Trinidad W.I. Photos: Gallery Posts: 612	Strangely I was toying with the idea of getting into another system. I tried the 40D and D200 last year, both for a few months as well as the K10D and I was not completely happy with any of them for various reasons. Now the K20D is here I ordered one as IQ is to me more important than having the fastest af or fps. I'm mostly a prime shooter anyway so naturally I remigrated back to Pentax easily. I also have the respect of my Non Pentax shooting peers, I never got any flak for using Pentax either as with them, it was the results that counted. Flip side to this was a student with obviously too much money questioned me about my *isTD. He could not understand why I would use a manual focus lens on a digital camera and claimed that his ( at the time ) D70 was far superior to any other camera on the planet with his bag of 5-6 lenses ( some nice pro zooms to! ). The irony of it all was that despite the impressive collection of lenses he used a 28-300 with the AF set to auto select and auto iso most of the time. He scoffed at using raw as it was too much work as the images from his camera would be good since it was a nikon. You can't help but laugh inside sometimes :XD

03-13-2008, 01:52 PM	#27
madisonphotogrl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 270 Original Poster	Originally posted by kenyee Depends on what lenses you want. E.g., go try and get a 70-200/2.8 in a Pentax mount now and you can't get it new (until Sigma/Tamron release theirs in the later half of the year). Pentax doesn't have the new tilt-shift lenses Nikon just released for the architectural folks. Pentax doesn't have the 1000mm $10K lenses that Canon has for sports shooters. So, the answer is, it depends on what he meant and what you want. If what he meant is not something you want, it doesn't really matter ;-) I see. I can see someone who has "special" lens needs changing to Pentax and not being satisfied.. I have to remember I am not a professional..... yet!

03-13-2008, 02:07 PM	#28
madisonphotogrl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 270 Original Poster	Totphoto.. that is too funny! I think some people are too into the electronic and not the photography. I really wish film wasn't so expensive to develop or that I had space for a darkroom. It's too techie now...

03-13-2008, 02:09 PM	#29
madisonphotogrl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 270 Original Poster	Originally posted by BrendanPK , Pentax's fastest is 2.8, both N+C have F2 (one full stop faster) Also Pentax does not make a 500mm F4 (sigma makes a K mount 500mm F4.5) the 600mm F4 Well good luck ~BrendanPK I have seen a 50mm 1.7 lense by Pentax too

03-13-2008, 02:17 PM	#30
madisonphotogrl Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 270 Original Poster	Short and simple.. I am a woman in her late 20's trying to get a decent camera set while I have the extra funds... Before the house and kids come.. I think I am feeling the funds depleating since I am getting married in June. The fiance' and I are committing to saving for a house after our wedding. So I am trying to get something to satisfy my photo itch and pasify my creative craving. I had to beg and bribe my fiance' to get the K10D and I just wanted some reassurance I was investing in a nice brand.. I do feel I am.. thanks..