K10D and external Flash What am I doing wrong?

Rolly · 03-18-2007, 07:31 PM

Sorry, but I seem to have missed something in reference to Ben's use of large studio flashes.
Ben's reference to " ....all slaved up..." seemed to imply that the units were not being triggered directly by the camera itself but by some remote device. In which case it's the triggering voltage of the transmitter that is of consequence.
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

Rolly · 03-18-2007, 07:37 PM

Re. jfdavis58 v. benjikan. It looks to me like a classic case of:

"Same planet, different worlds."

mutley · 03-18-2007, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by benjikan

.None the less, to be honest with you Larry, when it comes to electronic circuitry, I am really a hack. If stuff works, great. I have some understanding, but not up to the standards of many of the members on this forum. All I can do here is pass on info to you of what and what doesn't work for me.

I'm not an electronics expert either, but due to knowing that its my money if I break the camera doing something it can't handle, I at least want to know about it.

I've learned that this trigger voltage thing is something that is cumulative, and it can take time for your camera to fail. Your Hama hot shoe thing will appear to work fine with all strobes, but if their trigger voltage is more than 6 volts, eventually it will fry the circuitry. For those like you and me that can't go testing trigger voltage on each strobe we use, I posted that link where many have already been tested and are listed. Also, I just use a Wein Safe-Sync to be sure, and it also has a PC socket built in. If you are going to use other strobes than your Multiblitzes, and be using a cord instead of a Pocket Wizard, you should at least own a Wein Safe-Sync along with your Hama.

If Pentax puts a PC socket in the K10D replacement (and higher), hopefully they will make sure that is rated for high trigger voltage as well for this reason. Usually the PC Sockets are rated higher than hot shoes, but its worth mentioning.

Larry

benjikan · 03-18-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Rolly

Sorry, but I seem to have missed something in reference to Ben's use of large studio flashes.
Ben's reference to " ....all slaved up..." seemed to imply that the units were not being triggered directly by the camera itself but by some remote device. In which case it's the triggering voltage of the transmitter that is of consequence.
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

When I am shooting with multiple studio flash sources the camera (the master) is triggering the flash via the emitter which is attached to the hot shoe. The reciever is pluged in to one of the units. All of the other flashe units have sensors. When the shutter is engaged the main flash goes off and the "Slave "units follow suite almost instantaneously.

Ben

greenphotos · 07-30-2008, 07:14 AM

Hi,

First post here but certainly hope it isn't the last. Seems to be a bunch of helpful people.

Sorry to drag this thread up again as I see it's a while since, but it's really got be stumped.

I have the same issue, a K10D and a studio I hope to use that has xsync/pcsync only. Is it worth me getting a hotshoe adapter (Kenro?) or should I get a radio trigger - no idea how these connect to his cable system. I am pretty sure they are Bowns flashes - the studio site is here:The Stone Studio of Petersfield - studio hire

Cheers in advance!

Mark

sharpshoota · 07-30-2008, 07:15 AM

pocket wizards, definitely.

Entropy · 07-30-2008, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by sharpshoota

pocket wizards, definitely.

Overkill for someone who is just starting.

I'd suggest either Poverty Wizards (a nickname for the YinHe "Cactus" triggers available from Gadget Infinity, Link Delight, and a few other eBay vendors) or the new AlienBees CyberSyncs.

The Bees are a good middle ground in price/performance between Poverty Wizards and Pocket Wizards. I only own some Poverty Wizards currently but will be replacing them with CyberSyncs soon.

The CyberSyncs apparently have much greater reliability than the Cacti and somewhat improved range, but not the insane range of the Pocket Wizards. (but not the insane price either).

Reading through the thread:
1) Someone said the sync voltage limit for the K10D is 6 volts. That's the voltage limit for Canons. Someone got a response from a Pentax rep that it was at least 30 volts
2) Ben took a huge risk putting 200v directly into his hotshoe without a Safe-Sync or similar device. The K10D's hotshoe must be far more robust than specified if his K10D survived.

Most if not all of the receivers for any of the radio flash trigger systems can handle the trigger voltage of any flash, old (hundreds) or new (6-12 volts). A few have problems with ultra-low-voltage flashs (some Cacti don't work with the Vivitar 285HV, Pentax AF-540, and most new Canon flashes).

greenphotos · 07-30-2008, 08:19 AM

Thanks for the quick response! (Birthday is on 11th

)

If he just has a cable attachment coming off his Bowens, and says there is no infrared, would I be able to plug one of the units (i.e. a receiver unit) into his cable, and then the transmitter onto my camera?

Mark

Entropy · 07-31-2008, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by greenphotos

Thanks for the quick response! (Birthday is on 11th

)

If he just has a cable attachment coming off his Bowens, and says there is no infrared, would I be able to plug one of the units (i.e. a receiver unit) into his cable, and then the transmitter onto my camera?

Mark

Yup.

BTW, the AB CyberSyncs have a 1/8" miniphone mono connector instead of a PC connector, so you may need an adapter cable. FlashZebra.com has all sorts of sync adapter goodies.

MikePerham · 07-31-2008, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Michael Rothman

Well here I am at a two Model shoot with a brand new K10D, some great lenses, including a Zeiss 180 f/2.8 for the 645 with adapter ring, AND my Speedotron 1205 strobe. The Speedo was being triggered off the K10D through a Wein SafeSynch and cable as a short in the Speedotron would probably cook the K10D. Well no matter what settings I used on the K10D I could not get the strobes to fire. X, M, P, what ever. Nothing. I went into the strobe menu and it was set to fire the strobe. I know the SafeSynch and cable were OK because when put it on my Fuji S9000, things fired as they should. I even moved the SafeSynch fore and aft to be sure the thing was making contact.

So what was I doing wrong???

I doubt the problem was with either your camera or cables. More likely the flash and unless someone is familiar with the Speedotron units you may not find an answer here. I recently tried a shoot using my Pentax shoe mount units (540 and 360's) off camera and in manual mode. Had real problems with getting the units to fire and had to resort to the manual to get all the settings correct.

I have just ordered some e-bay radio triggers and 3 receivers so I can do this easier ...should be here any day now.

Venturi · 07-31-2008, 07:50 AM

Midwest Photo has the Cactus V2s trigger sets for $30 which I believe is a tad less than either Gadget Infinity or the eBay'ers. This is the shop that The Strobist pimps for his Lighting 101 students. I picked up a transmitter/receiver set and a 2nd receiver from them, as well as a few other pieces of gear, and they treated me very well. 1st transmitter was DOA and they had a replacement shipped out immediately following a phone call with them. They do ship internationally, btw.

Cactus V2s Radio Slave Set

amirko · 07-31-2008, 08:49 AM

I use SafeSync on my K200D with Sunpak 383 connected by pc cord all set on manual and it is firing with no problem if shutter speed is right i.e. under 1/180 (knock-knock on wood). Is K10's flash shoe different design?

greenphotos · 08-01-2008, 03:25 AM

So would this work?
Calumet Four-Channel Radio Flash Trigger Set - CF0048 - RT-05K-4

Could I then attach it to his cable?

Sorry to sound so thick :-(

greenphotos · 08-01-2008, 05:57 AM

Just seen it has a PC connection so unless anyone tells me different here I think I'll go for it!

Mark

rrsell · 08-01-2008, 09:31 AM

I just want to second Ray Pulley's success with a $20 Chinese radio unit. I just push the transmitter onto the hot shoe (correct orientation is important--it only works one way although it will slide on either way), mount the receiver on a tripod then the flash onto the receiver. I purchased it about a month ago via ashopone@gmail.com It was shipped directly from Hong Kong in a package marked "gift."

Good luck

03-18-2007, 07:47 PM	#49
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Triggering Device Originally posted by Rolly Sorry, but I seem to have missed something in reference to Ben's use of large studio flashes. Ben's reference to " ....all slaved up..." seemed to imply that the units were not being triggered directly by the camera itself but by some remote device. In which case it's the triggering voltage of the transmitter that is of consequence. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick. When I am shooting with multiple studio flash sources the camera (the master) is triggering the flash via the emitter which is attached to the hot shoe. The reciever is pluged in to one of the units. All of the other flashe units have sensors. When the shutter is engaged the main flash goes off and the "Slave "units follow suite almost instantaneously. Ben

07-30-2008, 07:14 AM	#50
greenphotos New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 4	Issue resolved yet? Hi, First post here but certainly hope it isn't the last. Seems to be a bunch of helpful people. Sorry to drag this thread up again as I see it's a while since, but it's really got be stumped. I have the same issue, a K10D and a studio I hope to use that has xsync/pcsync only. Is it worth me getting a hotshoe adapter (Kenro?) or should I get a radio trigger - no idea how these connect to his cable system. I am pretty sure they are Bowns flashes - the studio site is here:The Stone Studio of Petersfield - studio hire Cheers in advance! Mark

07-30-2008, 08:19 AM	#53
greenphotos New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 4	Thanks for the quick response! (Birthday is on 11th ) If he just has a cable attachment coming off his Bowens, and says there is no infrared, would I be able to plug one of the units (i.e. a receiver unit) into his cable, and then the transmitter onto my camera? Mark Last edited by greenphotos; 07-30-2008 at 08:26 AM.

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03-18-2007, 07:31 PM	#46
Rolly Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 295	Sorry, but I seem to have missed something in reference to Ben's use of large studio flashes. Ben's reference to " ....all slaved up..." seemed to imply that the units were not being triggered directly by the camera itself but by some remote device. In which case it's the triggering voltage of the transmitter that is of consequence. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick.

03-18-2007, 07:37 PM	#47
Rolly Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 295	Re. jfdavis58 v. benjikan. It looks to me like a classic case of: "Same planet, different worlds."

03-18-2007, 07:43 PM	#48
mutley Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LI, NY Posts: 313	Originally posted by benjikan .None the less, to be honest with you Larry, when it comes to electronic circuitry, I am really a hack. If stuff works, great. I have some understanding, but not up to the standards of many of the members on this forum. All I can do here is pass on info to you of what and what doesn't work for me. I'm not an electronics expert either, but due to knowing that its my money if I break the camera doing something it can't handle, I at least want to know about it. I've learned that this trigger voltage thing is something that is cumulative, and it can take time for your camera to fail. Your Hama hot shoe thing will appear to work fine with all strobes, but if their trigger voltage is more than 6 volts, eventually it will fry the circuitry. For those like you and me that can't go testing trigger voltage on each strobe we use, I posted that link where many have already been tested and are listed. Also, I just use a Wein Safe-Sync to be sure, and it also has a PC socket built in. If you are going to use other strobes than your Multiblitzes, and be using a cord instead of a Pocket Wizard, you should at least own a Wein Safe-Sync along with your Hama. If Pentax puts a PC socket in the K10D replacement (and higher), hopefully they will make sure that is rated for high trigger voltage as well for this reason. Usually the PC Sockets are rated higher than hot shoes, but its worth mentioning. Larry

07-30-2008, 07:15 AM	#51
sharpshoota Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NYC Photos: Gallery Posts: 107	pocket wizards, definitely.

07-30-2008, 07:39 AM	#52
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	Originally posted by sharpshoota pocket wizards, definitely. Overkill for someone who is just starting. I'd suggest either Poverty Wizards (a nickname for the YinHe "Cactus" triggers available from Gadget Infinity, Link Delight, and a few other eBay vendors) or the new AlienBees CyberSyncs. The Bees are a good middle ground in price/performance between Poverty Wizards and Pocket Wizards. I only own some Poverty Wizards currently but will be replacing them with CyberSyncs soon. The CyberSyncs apparently have much greater reliability than the Cacti and somewhat improved range, but not the insane range of the Pocket Wizards. (but not the insane price either). Reading through the thread: 1) Someone said the sync voltage limit for the K10D is 6 volts. That's the voltage limit for Canons. Someone got a response from a Pentax rep that it was at least 30 volts 2) Ben took a huge risk putting 200v directly into his hotshoe without a Safe-Sync or similar device. The K10D's hotshoe must be far more robust than specified if his K10D survived. Most if not all of the receivers for any of the radio flash trigger systems can handle the trigger voltage of any flash, old (hundreds) or new (6-12 volts). A few have problems with ultra-low-voltage flashs (some Cacti don't work with the Vivitar 285HV, Pentax AF-540, and most new Canon flashes).

07-31-2008, 06:04 AM	#54
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	Originally posted by greenphotos Thanks for the quick response! (Birthday is on 11th ) If he just has a cable attachment coming off his Bowens, and says there is no infrared, would I be able to plug one of the units (i.e. a receiver unit) into his cable, and then the transmitter onto my camera? Mark Yup. BTW, the AB CyberSyncs have a 1/8" miniphone mono connector instead of a PC connector, so you may need an adapter cable. FlashZebra.com has all sorts of sync adapter goodies.

07-31-2008, 07:27 AM	#55
MikePerham Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Prince George, BC Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 642	Originally posted by Michael Rothman Well here I am at a two Model shoot with a brand new K10D, some great lenses, including a Zeiss 180 f/2.8 for the 645 with adapter ring, AND my Speedotron 1205 strobe. The Speedo was being triggered off the K10D through a Wein SafeSynch and cable as a short in the Speedotron would probably cook the K10D. Well no matter what settings I used on the K10D I could not get the strobes to fire. X, M, P, what ever. Nothing. I went into the strobe menu and it was set to fire the strobe. I know the SafeSynch and cable were OK because when put it on my Fuji S9000, things fired as they should. I even moved the SafeSynch fore and aft to be sure the thing was making contact. So what was I doing wrong??? I doubt the problem was with either your camera or cables. More likely the flash and unless someone is familiar with the Speedotron units you may not find an answer here. I recently tried a shoot using my Pentax shoe mount units (540 and 360's) off camera and in manual mode. Had real problems with getting the units to fire and had to resort to the manual to get all the settings correct. I have just ordered some e-bay radio triggers and 3 receivers so I can do this easier ...should be here any day now.

07-31-2008, 07:50 AM	#56
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Midwest Photo has the Cactus V2s trigger sets for $30 which I believe is a tad less than either Gadget Infinity or the eBay'ers. This is the shop that The Strobist pimps for his Lighting 101 students. I picked up a transmitter/receiver set and a 2nd receiver from them, as well as a few other pieces of gear, and they treated me very well. 1st transmitter was DOA and they had a replacement shipped out immediately following a phone call with them. They do ship internationally, btw. Cactus V2s Radio Slave Set

07-31-2008, 08:49 AM	#57
amirko New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Miami, FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 9	I use SafeSync on my K200D with Sunpak 383 connected by pc cord all set on manual and it is firing with no problem if shutter speed is right i.e. under 1/180 (knock-knock on wood). Is K10's flash shoe different design?

08-01-2008, 03:25 AM	#58
greenphotos New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 4	So would this work? Calumet Four-Channel Radio Flash Trigger Set - CF0048 - RT-05K-4 Could I then attach it to his cable? Sorry to sound so thick :-(

08-01-2008, 05:57 AM	#59
greenphotos New Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hampshire UK Posts: 4	Just seen it has a PC connection so unless anyone tells me different here I think I'll go for it! Mark

08-01-2008, 09:31 AM	#60
rrsell Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Richmond VA Photos: Gallery Posts: 41	I just want to second Ray Pulley's success with a $20 Chinese radio unit. I just push the transmitter onto the hot shoe (correct orientation is important--it only works one way although it will slide on either way), mount the receiver on a tripod then the flash onto the receiver. I purchased it about a month ago via ashopone@gmail.com It was shipped directly from Hong Kong in a package marked "gift." Good luck