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06-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #1
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14 Bit vs 12 Bit Raw Real Life Example

I was a dumbass
I may have ruined my K-5 with a canoeing mishap this weekend on a river
Right now, it is sitting in a bowl of rice, so I will pray that everything is ok, but i have my doubts.

Anyway, I have thought of replacing it with either another K-5 or maybe even a K-30. Reason being because I really like focus peaking.

I know people saw that the big difference between 12 and 14 Bit raw is the shadow recovery. I really like to push it when it comes to shadow recovery, so, does anyone have any real life examples comparing the two? Does it really make that much of a difference?

06-26-2013, 11:28 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I was a dumbass
This is the story of my life. :-)
06-26-2013, 11:54 AM   #3
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That sucks about your K-5. You know that I experienced the same with mine in New Zealand because I was a dumbass too and didn't ensure the battery grip port rubber cover was installed

Regarding the shadow recovery, I am similar in that I push the shadows a lot. My photography has evolved to where I underexpose EVERYTHING by -1/3 to -3 EV (in extreme cases) in order to preserve the highlights since the shadow recovery is so excellent. It also helps when I need fast shutter speeds in very low light and can push the EV by a couple stops in Lightroom. I honestly have not noticed any difference between the K-30 and the K-5, and now the K-30 and the K-5 IIs when pushing shadow recovery in post. I'm sure there is a difference (every test dictates as such), but for "real world" usage, my experience says the K-30 is more than capable at handling shadow recovery. I used the K-30 extensively in New Zealand (because, like I said, I was a dumbass and flooded my K-5) and there were several shots that I still don't know how I managed in post because of being pushed 3-4 stops. These are two examples from the above New Zealand post:

17) Jenny and I decided to go spelunking in a large cave just outside the hut (Luxmore Cave), and I was able to get this image of the entrance from inside. I'm actually really proud of this image, as not only was it technically difficult, but I spent about an hour in Lightroom trying to get it to where it is. Friends in my office swore it looked like an ultrasound (I don't see it...). I brought my tripod into the cave (which I will review at a later time - that tripod is amazing) and I set the camera on it and took about twenty shots at varying exposures. This I from a single exposure, and the original is completely black except for what seems to be a very overexposured entrance at the top - the K-30 absolutely blew my mind away with what I could pull out of the RAW's shadows in Lightroom.
Pentax K-30, DA* 16-50




60) And more track. Here the track descends to one of the rivers we had to cross. This is another one of my favorites from the trip. Similar to the cave entrance shot earlier, the dynamic range of the K-30 is what made it possible. This is a single exposure that was severely underexposred to allow for the beach and a small wave breaking (which are barely visible, but still), to not be blown. Then I raised the shadows within the canopy and loved how it perfectly captures the mood of the entire track we followed.
Pentax K-30, Sigma 8-16



Both were underexposed by about 3 stops.

I love my K-30, but be prepared for a MUCH louder shutter

-Heie
06-26-2013, 12:07 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Heie Quote
That sucks about your K-5. You know that I experienced the same with mine in New Zealand because I was a dumbass too and didn't ensure the battery grip port rubber cover was installed

Regarding the shadow recovery, I am similar in that I push the shadows a lot. My photography has evolved to where I underexpose EVERYTHING by -1/3 to -3 EV (in extreme cases) in order to preserve the highlights since the shadow recovery is so excellent. It also helps when I need fast shutter speeds in very low light and can push the EV by a couple stops in Lightroom. I honestly have not noticed any difference between the K-30 and the K-5, and now the K-30 and the K-5 IIs when pushing shadow recovery in post. I'm sure there is a difference (every test dictates as such), but for "real world" usage, my experience says the K-30 is more than capable at handling shadow recovery. I used the K-30 extensively in New Zealand (because, like I said, I was a dumbass and flooded my K-5) and there were several shots that I still don't know how I managed in post because of being pushed 3-4 stops. These are two examples from the above New Zealand post:

17) Jenny and I decided to go spelunking in a large cave just outside the hut (Luxmore Cave), and I was able to get this image of the entrance from inside. I'm actually really proud of this image, as not only was it technically difficult, but I spent about an hour in Lightroom trying to get it to where it is. Friends in my office swore it looked like an ultrasound (I don't see it...). I brought my tripod into the cave (which I will review at a later time - that tripod is amazing) and I set the camera on it and took about twenty shots at varying exposures. This I from a single exposure, and the original is completely black except for what seems to be a very overexposured entrance at the top - the K-30 absolutely blew my mind away with what I could pull out of the RAW's shadows in Lightroom.
Pentax K-30, DA* 16-50




60) And more track. Here the track descends to one of the rivers we had to cross. This is another one of my favorites from the trip. Similar to the cave entrance shot earlier, the dynamic range of the K-30 is what made it possible. This is a single exposure that was severely underexposred to allow for the beach and a small wave breaking (which are barely visible, but still), to not be blown. Then I raised the shadows within the canopy and loved how it perfectly captures the mood of the entire track we followed.
Pentax K-30, Sigma 8-16



Both were underexposed by about 3 stops.

I love my K-30, but be prepared for a MUCH louder shutter

-Heie
Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for
I have been very intrigued by using focus peaking for my MF lenses, so maybe i just go with the K-30

06-26-2013, 12:09 PM   #5
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I am confident your camera could revive but I donīt know if rice is the best option... Perhaps some Silica Gel is better suited. Make sure to leave all the openings, well, open... Battery door, SD card door, Lens mount, flash, rubber where the grip contacts are. Good luck!


Regarding the 12 vs 14 bit debate.. Iīve seen examples where 14 bits are better but are really extreme cases. Depends on your application. Are you goind to print big or something like that?
06-26-2013, 12:51 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Heie Quote
That sucks about your K-5. You know that I experienced the same with mine in New Zealand because I was a dumbass too and didn't ensure the battery grip port rubber cover was installed

Regarding the shadow recovery, I am similar in that I push the shadows a lot. My photography has evolved to where I underexpose EVERYTHING by -1/3 to -3 EV (in extreme cases) in order to preserve the highlights since the shadow recovery is so excellent. It also helps when I need fast shutter speeds in very low light and can push the EV by a couple stops in Lightroom. I honestly have not noticed any difference between the K-30 and the K-5, and now the K-30 and the K-5 IIs when pushing shadow recovery in post. I'm sure there is a difference (every test dictates as such), but for "real world" usage, my experience says the K-30 is more than capable at handling shadow recovery. I used the K-30 extensively in New Zealand (because, like I said, I was a dumbass and flooded my K-5) and there were several shots that I still don't know how I managed in post because of being pushed 3-4 stops. These are two examples from the above New Zealand post:

17) Jenny and I decided to go spelunking in a large cave just outside the hut (Luxmore Cave), and I was able to get this image of the entrance from inside. I'm actually really proud of this image, as not only was it technically difficult, but I spent about an hour in Lightroom trying to get it to where it is. Friends in my office swore it looked like an ultrasound (I don't see it...). I brought my tripod into the cave (which I will review at a later time - that tripod is amazing) and I set the camera on it and took about twenty shots at varying exposures. This I from a single exposure, and the original is completely black except for what seems to be a very overexposured entrance at the top - the K-30 absolutely blew my mind away with what I could pull out of the RAW's shadows in Lightroom.
Pentax K-30, DA* 16-50




60) And more track. Here the track descends to one of the rivers we had to cross. This is another one of my favorites from the trip. Similar to the cave entrance shot earlier, the dynamic range of the K-30 is what made it possible. This is a single exposure that was severely underexposred to allow for the beach and a small wave breaking (which are barely visible, but still), to not be blown. Then I raised the shadows within the canopy and loved how it perfectly captures the mood of the entire track we followed.
Pentax K-30, Sigma 8-16



Both were underexposed by about 3 stops.

I love my K-30, but be prepared for a MUCH louder shutter

-Heie
heie i thought it was an ultrsound too ...great info!!!!
06-26-2013, 12:54 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
Perhaps some Silica Gel is better suited.
+1 on the Silica Gel.
06-26-2013, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #8
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12 bit vs 14 bit has nothing to do with dynamic range. Dynamic range stays the same.It afects gradations within dynamic range-better color accuracy and smoother transitions. It won't recover more detail in shadows it will be more accurate and smoother in color transitions within area you are recovering.
In most situations diference is hard to tell.
Hope this helps...

06-26-2013, 01:22 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dario79 Quote
12 bit vs 14 bit has nothing to do with dynamic range. Dynamic range stays the same.It afects gradations within dynamic range-better color accuracy and smoother transitions. It won't recover more detail in shadows it will be more accurate and smoother in color transitions within area you are recovering.
In most situations diference is hard to tell.
Hope this helps...
I think that would be true if LCD monitors were 12bit or 14bit. 14-bit camera can capture a wide range of gray scale which cannot be compressed (linearly) into normal JPEGs because the best JPEGs are 8 bit per color. High contrast photos (shadows) can be post-processed to compress that 14-bit information into 8 bit (by nonlinear transfer function or by shifting the bits of interest). I do that all the time and it is amazing to see how much you can recover from a raw file which otherwise look completely dark. But if you just try to fit a very high contrast image into 8 bit JPEG the result will look too flat or dull. So having high dynamic range image compressed into a regular JPEG may not always produce the best pleasing or realistic image. I use it mainly for shadow recovery (or brighten up under-exposed shots).

Edit: In my experience K5 is way better than K30 except for focus-peaking. Quieter shutter, 14-bit image, better battery capacity.

Last edited by TropicalMonkey; 06-26-2013 at 01:42 PM.
07-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #10
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I haven't tried a K30. But the quieter shutter alone makes the K5 trump the K30 for me. The top LCD panel is a notable second. Battery life is important too.

I can't imagine I could perceive let alone care about 12 vs 14 bit. Seriously, that's no reason to choose one over the other. One car has 236 horsepower. The other has 242 horsepower. If they're driving into the wind. Or not. Or carrying hockey equipment in the back. Whatever.

But with Pentax, I'd do anything to get a more responsive/faster autofocus system as well as a much more powerful data processor. Both are behind the times (aka canikon).
07-05-2013, 06:07 AM   #11
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I'm also deciding between the two as a matter of end-of-cycle upgrade decisions (*istD, K20D, K-01, Q). I can use the K-01 when I need a quiet shutter (or Q for total silence), and I would like to keep using my stash of fine K-01 batteries (+K5). I do shoot a lot with manual lenses and really like focus peaking (+K30). I tend to prefer top-of-the line (+K5), but I wonder if there is any real build difference between the two. Finally, and perhaps most important - which body has the better AF speed and low light capability? That could be the decider.
07-05-2013, 06:11 AM   #12
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Well. I decided to get the K-30
I jumped on the Hunt's deal...K-30 + 18-55 WR for $499! For that price, i could live with the louder shutter and the lack of an LCD on top
07-05-2013, 06:28 AM - 1 Like   #13
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I have taken images with wrong settings and one repared, because I wanted the image. Made with K-01, so that is the same as K-30.

This is coming with the camera settings:


This is after lightroom, extensive repair. It was 3,6 EV underexposed.


I had this image in print on my photo exhibition (https://www.facebook.com/fotoexpositieBeNeLeague) on A3 size in a frame.
07-05-2013, 07:26 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I have taken images with wrong settings and one repared, because I wanted the image. Made with K-01, so that is the same as K-30.

This is coming with the camera settings:


This is after lightroom, extensive repair. It was 3,6 EV underexposed.


I had this image in print on my photo exhibition (https://www.facebook.com/fotoexpositieBeNeLeague) on A3 size in a frame.
That is impressive - nice job on the recovery.
07-05-2013, 07:31 AM   #15
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Hunt's deal

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Well. I decided to get the K-30
I jumped on the Hunt's deal...K-30 + 18-55 WR for $499! For that price, i could live with the louder shutter and the lack of an LCD on top
That is a great deal. Do you have the camera yet? Can you confirm that its a WR lens? Is it the kit version (plastic mount), or metal?
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