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07-05-2013, 03:35 AM   #1
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Built-in AA filter like ND filter???

Hi guys, a question pops up in my mind while the market is hot with cameras without AA filter.

Can pentax/ricoh build a camera with removable AA filter like the built-in ND filter in many compacts?

If so, we don't have to worry about the cost of moire while enjoying the extra resolution due to removed AA filter in our cameras. Then when moire is a problem (like shooting at clothings) the user can simply activate the AA filter!

Is this achievable by today's technology (or more specifically Ricoh's technology???)

07-05-2013, 03:39 AM   #2
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I think the Q has an ND filter like that. Its actually not a bad idea. The only problem is that DSLRs have a much bigger sensor than compacts, but it might still be feasible
07-05-2013, 03:43 AM   #3
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I don't think they can do that, the blur is snak and precise.
Beside that cameras without aa filter are also specialised cameras.
It's a bit like suggesting a build in infrared filter for the 1% that use it
07-05-2013, 03:44 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I think the Q has an ND filter like that. Its actually not a bad idea. The only problem is that DSLRs have a much bigger sensor than compacts, but it might still be feasible
Maybe, instead of a electronically-operated AA filter, build a mechanically-operated AA filter. For example the user can slide in the AA filter with a lever. I think this feature will give future Pentax-Ricoh DSLR an edge over the big two.

07-05-2013, 03:45 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
I don't think they can do that, the blur is snak and precise.
Beside that cameras without aa filter are also specialised cameras.
It's a bit like suggesting a build in infrared filter for the 1% that use it
I think you have a point there. If a camera is optimise to its AA filter then it probably can perform at its best.
07-05-2013, 03:48 AM   #6
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What about a screw-on AA filter for in front of the lens? Why wouldn't that work?
07-05-2013, 05:03 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What about a screw-on AA filter for in front of the lens? Why wouldn't that work?
AA filter has 2 pieces of glass, 1 blurs it 1 or 2 pixels horizontal and the other blurs it vertically.
There is quite a bit of optimization in it.

It's not a simple "blur all" filter.
07-05-2013, 05:14 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
AA filter has 2 pieces of glass, 1 blurs it 1 or 2 pixels horizontal and the other blurs it vertically.
There is quite a bit of optimization in it.

It's not a simple "blur all" filter.
Clear, thanks. I was just thinking out loud.

I don't see the problem with moiré anyway, it's so easily corrected in PP.

07-05-2013, 05:38 AM   #9
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It's been suggested elsewhere to use the Shake Reduction mechanism to do the AA-blurring. Just wiggle the sensor the right amount during exposure.

I don't know if it's theoretically or technically possible though.

Regards,
--Anders.
07-05-2013, 05:49 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mythguy9 Quote
Maybe, instead of a electronically-operated AA filter, build a mechanically-operated AA filter. For example the user can slide in the AA filter with a lever. I think this feature will give future Pentax-Ricoh DSLR an edge over the big two.
Big 3 Actually. Sony is outselling Nikon at this point.

I like the idea, though, I see it being hard to execute. A small sensor mirrorless can have room for such things, but have you seen the internals of a K-5? There's no room!
07-05-2013, 06:06 AM   #11
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Why not just soften the image slightly? Use a crappy UV filter?
07-05-2013, 06:14 AM   #12
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I am guessing the best course of action for someone who wanted AA filtration only sometimes, would be to have a camera with no AA filtration and deal with moire, when it is objectionable, in post processing.

I have read that the K-30 has 'lighter' AA filtration than the original K-5. I really don't know if that is true or not, but I can say that my K-30 images have much finer detail than my previous K-r. I'm sure part of that is also the jump in sensor density (12mp versus 16mp).
07-05-2013, 06:21 AM   #13
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There is a blur-type AA filter available for a few bodies optimized to remove edge flckering due to line skipping in movie mode. It is mounted manually into the mirror box with the mirror locked up.

Other than this, it is not doable. The Bayer-AA filter must sit right in front of the sensor and forms a sealed package with it to minimize reflections etc. Also, it is as large as the sensor and there would be no room where to flip it. Eventually, it alters the optical path length, so focus wouldn't work correctly anymore.

The sensor shake method is feasible. Might or might not need a revised sensor shift motor though.
07-05-2013, 10:29 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The sensor shake method is feasible. Might or might not need a revised sensor shift motor though.
I would then suggest to do the oppisite.
So have a sensor with AA filter standard, when using the camera on a trippod where you get the best sharpness they could move the sensor around to take multiple photos and then stack them into 1 big photo 4 times the resolution for example.
07-05-2013, 11:36 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
move the sensor around to take multiple photos
superresolution requires deconvolution. it's not as straight-forward as you may think.

btw, doing a burst of half a dozen free hand shots normally does the same. The software is good enough at aligning them to subpixel accuracy.
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