Need to get a flash.. but what? (College student)

proudtoshootpentax · 03-24-2008, 08:26 AM

I'm still sticking with the FGZ 360 recommendation. You can use it in fully manual mode just as the Nikon, and it has the same output, so there's no loss in power. You can set it to slave manually without having to use P-TTl, and when you grow into your system, and want to get more creative, you'll have a flash that is capable of doing everything your SB 24 could have and much much more. As far as a swivel head... wireless P-TTL means you can take the flash off the camera and point it wherever your little heart desires!

medbooks321 · 03-24-2008, 10:34 AM

I own a K100D, and also am looking for an external flash system on a student budget. Will the aforementioned recommendations work equally as well, or must I stick with the 360 or 540 Pentaxes? In particular, I'd like to try off-camera wireless flash, but I don't recall seeing such a setting on the K100D.

To be honest, most of the places I shoot (concerts, indoor candids) are best served with fast lenses, so I've simply used my on-camera flash for now, and am saving up for the tamron 17-50. But this thread has got me thinking. Any recommendations?

lithos · 03-24-2008, 11:18 AM

Do.

Not.

Under.

Any.

Circumstances.

Get.

A.

Sigma.

Flash.

Unit.

skydragoness · 04-06-2008, 08:51 AM

Soo...
I got my SB-24 in the mail from KEH. Fantastic condition and I got a little instruction booklet for it too.

However, I noticed it only works on my camera in Wireless Flash mode. Is that right? How come it doesn't work in regular flash mode? Does this mean they are not "talking" to each other fully?
In my photo class people with Canon's and Nikon's tried it on and the SB-24 all worked for them without them having to change any menu functions, but when it was on my K10, it did not fire until I switched the flash function to Wireless mode..what's up with that? Will this inhibit any control I may have on it? Does it have to do with it not being P-TTL?

Last edited by skydragoness; 04-06-2008 at 09:06 AM.

ryan s · 04-06-2008, 10:09 AM

Just double checked mine...works fine in M and X sync. I never messed with the flash menu, so it's set like stock.

Is your flash set on M? The slider on the top right on the unit...

skydragoness · 04-06-2008, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by ryan s

Just double checked mine...works fine in M and X sync. I never messed with the flash menu, so it's set like stock.

Is your flash set on M? The slider on the top right on the unit...

Yeah it was set in M.
Ok, this is weird, it's working in regular flash mode, red-eye flash, and wireless. The night before in class it didn't do crap.

Ok, I know why now: before the flash was put on it was in Trail-Curtain Sync mode. The flash won't fire in that mode.

So I found the buttons on the SB-24, for rear curtain, TTL, the three little bolts

, and the A will only function in X sync mode? In M mode, the flash only fires if I set in the three modes I mentioned above. Okay, I understand now. I was upset at first thinking something was wrong! Derkader. Well I'll be having fun with this .. this flash is powerful! ( Now I have to get used to the high pitched bomb-about-to-go-off sound a flash makes).

ryan s · 04-06-2008, 05:16 PM

Good that it's figured out

It does make some interesting sounds...and the front gets pretty hot when it goes off...

DHCowboy · 04-07-2008, 09:47 AM

I used my SB 24 on the K10 for a number of weeks and through one wedding, - no ill effects. Same went for the SB 20. (only no swivel head)
All of the Nikon flashes I have heard, are of low voltage at the shoe. And the build quality, as has already been mentioned, is sub-par to none.

BTW, - I 1st purchased the Sigma DGSuper for the K10 and detested it's controls and the build. Sent it home and got the FGZ 540. Much happier and now the Nikon units have been relegated to the Nikon bad of tricks for a D70 I picked up cheap...

Cheers and happy-snappin'!

kenyee · 04-07-2008, 01:17 PM

rear/trailing curtain and HSS/FP mode requires a matching flash.

You're basically using it as a non-dedicated flash, so you have two options for use:
- full manual where you set the power level
- auto-thyristor mode where you tell the flash what f-stop/ISO you're using and the flash measures light to control itself
Ignore all the other features on your SB-24. They won't work on your K10D.

Google up "strobist" and let the learning begin.
Go buy a fleabay trigger for $20 and learn how to use off-camera flash.
Learn properly and your flash photos will not suck :-)

For the price of a Pentax 540, I have 3 used Nikon flashes and a set of wireless triggers. The only weakness is when you're shooting dynamic situations where you need more than one flash (e.g., kids indoors).

Entropy · 04-07-2008, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Mikhail

I'd go for an old unit for offcamera flash. You prof probably doesn't want you using auto modes so dont pay for it. Get a SB-24\25, Sunpak 383, Vivitar 285HV or some other older ones.. (btw thats in order of preference personally).

Thanks

Yeah. Given that your prof reccommended the 285HV, it sounds like he is expecting one of the following:
1) You won't need TTL capabilities
or more likely
2) You won't be allowed to use TTL capabilities

I have an AF-540FGZ and a Vivitar 285HV - I find myself using the 285HV far more often, as in most situations it actually exposes more correctly than the AF-540, and it costs 1/3 the price! You can get a complete MPEX Strobist kit (light stand, umbrella, sync cables or wireless triggers) for far less than the price of an AF-540FGZ.

If you're getting the flash unit for photography classes and you're on a student budget, don't waste money on a super high end P-TTL flash. Go for a flexible auto-thyristor flash with lots of manual flexibility (Viv 285HV, Sunpak 383) - in fact for the same price as an AF-540FGZ you can get three flashes like the 285HV and 383!

Rmpjr7 · 04-07-2008, 04:05 PM

Another recommendation to at least strongly consider the Sunpak 383.

Just tell the flash what ISO you are using and the how far the subject is from the camera, the flash will do the rest. In return, the camera will tell you what aperature to use. For the shutter speed, just set it to the highest speed that your camera could synchronize with an external flash. Only about $80.

Bob

Mikhail · 04-07-2008, 04:06 PM

Um personally I wouldnt be putting a SB24 on top of my Pentax camera unless all the pins but the centre one were removed or covered up in some fashion... you may not of had any ill effects yet but who knows...

Enjoy your new toy!
Thanks

benplaut · 04-07-2008, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Mikhail

Um personally I wouldnt be putting a SB24 on top of my Pentax camera unless all the pins but the centre one were removed or covered up in some fashion... you may not of had any ill effects yet but who knows...

Enjoy your new toy!
Thanks

It's fine. Really. Not only are the pins in slightly different places, but the hotshoe isn't affected when its pins are shorted together. I also checked the flash with a multimeter, none of the contacts volt back on firing except for the fire pin, which is ~4v (this is on a SB-80, close enough).

YMMV

BBear · 04-12-2008, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

rear/trailing curtain and HSS/FP mode requires a matching flash.

Can someone elaborate on that? Are the Sunpack and Vivitar models recommended throughout the thread a "matching flash" ?

Entropy · 04-13-2008, 06:56 PM

I don't know about trailing-curtain sync with non-PTTL flashes, I'd need to test that out.

HSS is only possible with P-TTL flashes, and not even all of them. (All of the Pentax models I'm fairly certain, but not necessarily the third-party ones). That said, HSS is a relatively recent and niche feature (although it sure is nice when trying to overpower ambient! But you could just tie together three Viv 285HVs for the same price and simply overpower ambient with brute force.)

Remember, high speed sync is NOT needed to stop action - in fact because it effectively increases the flash duration, it is the last thing you want if you want to stop movement.

03-24-2008, 10:34 AM	#17
medbooks321 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 27	Slightly different question I own a K100D, and also am looking for an external flash system on a student budget. Will the aforementioned recommendations work equally as well, or must I stick with the 360 or 540 Pentaxes? In particular, I'd like to try off-camera wireless flash, but I don't recall seeing such a setting on the K100D. To be honest, most of the places I shoot (concerts, indoor candids) are best served with fast lenses, so I've simply used my on-camera flash for now, and am saving up for the tamron 17-50. But this thread has got me thinking. Any recommendations?

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03-24-2008, 08:26 AM	#16
proudtoshootpentax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Idaho Falls Posts: 110	I'm still sticking with the FGZ 360 recommendation. You can use it in fully manual mode just as the Nikon, and it has the same output, so there's no loss in power. You can set it to slave manually without having to use P-TTl, and when you grow into your system, and want to get more creative, you'll have a flash that is capable of doing everything your SB 24 could have and much much more. As far as a swivel head... wireless P-TTL means you can take the flash off the camera and point it wherever your little heart desires!

03-24-2008, 11:18 AM	#18
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Do. Not. Under. Any. Circumstances. Get. A. Sigma. Flash. Unit.

04-06-2008, 08:51 AM	#19
skydragoness Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Delaware, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 163 Original Poster	Soo... I got my SB-24 in the mail from KEH. Fantastic condition and I got a little instruction booklet for it too. However, I noticed it only works on my camera in Wireless Flash mode. Is that right? How come it doesn't work in regular flash mode? Does this mean they are not "talking" to each other fully? In my photo class people with Canon's and Nikon's tried it on and the SB-24 all worked for them without them having to change any menu functions, but when it was on my K10, it did not fire until I switched the flash function to Wireless mode..what's up with that? Will this inhibit any control I may have on it? Does it have to do with it not being P-TTL? Last edited by skydragoness; 04-06-2008 at 09:06 AM.

04-06-2008, 10:09 AM	#20
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Just double checked mine...works fine in M and X sync. I never messed with the flash menu, so it's set like stock. Is your flash set on M? The slider on the top right on the unit...

04-06-2008, 02:52 PM	#21
skydragoness Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Delaware, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 163 Original Poster	Originally posted by ryan s Just double checked mine...works fine in M and X sync. I never messed with the flash menu, so it's set like stock. Is your flash set on M? The slider on the top right on the unit... Yeah it was set in M. Ok, this is weird, it's working in regular flash mode, red-eye flash, and wireless. The night before in class it didn't do crap. Ok, I know why now: before the flash was put on it was in Trail-Curtain Sync mode. The flash won't fire in that mode. So I found the buttons on the SB-24, for rear curtain, TTL, the three little bolts , and the A will only function in X sync mode? In M mode, the flash only fires if I set in the three modes I mentioned above. Okay, I understand now. I was upset at first thinking something was wrong! Derkader. Well I'll be having fun with this .. this flash is powerful! ( Now I have to get used to the high pitched bomb-about-to-go-off sound a flash makes).

04-06-2008, 05:16 PM	#22
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Good that it's figured out It does make some interesting sounds...and the front gets pretty hot when it goes off...

04-07-2008, 09:47 AM	#23
DHCowboy Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 27	I used my SB 24 on the K10 for a number of weeks and through one wedding, - no ill effects. Same went for the SB 20. (only no swivel head) All of the Nikon flashes I have heard, are of low voltage at the shoe. And the build quality, as has already been mentioned, is sub-par to none. BTW, - I 1st purchased the Sigma DGSuper for the K10 and detested it's controls and the build. Sent it home and got the FGZ 540. Much happier and now the Nikon units have been relegated to the Nikon bad of tricks for a D70 I picked up cheap... Cheers and happy-snappin'!

04-07-2008, 01:17 PM	#24
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	rear/trailing curtain and HSS/FP mode requires a matching flash. You're basically using it as a non-dedicated flash, so you have two options for use: - full manual where you set the power level - auto-thyristor mode where you tell the flash what f-stop/ISO you're using and the flash measures light to control itself Ignore all the other features on your SB-24. They won't work on your K10D. Google up "strobist" and let the learning begin. Go buy a fleabay trigger for $20 and learn how to use off-camera flash. Learn properly and your flash photos will not suck :-) For the price of a Pentax 540, I have 3 used Nikon flashes and a set of wireless triggers. The only weakness is when you're shooting dynamic situations where you need more than one flash (e.g., kids indoors).

04-07-2008, 01:45 PM	#25
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	Originally posted by Mikhail I'd go for an old unit for offcamera flash. You prof probably doesn't want you using auto modes so dont pay for it. Get a SB-24\25, Sunpak 383, Vivitar 285HV or some other older ones.. (btw thats in order of preference personally). Thanks Yeah. Given that your prof reccommended the 285HV, it sounds like he is expecting one of the following: 1) You won't need TTL capabilities or more likely 2) You won't be allowed to use TTL capabilities I have an AF-540FGZ and a Vivitar 285HV - I find myself using the 285HV far more often, as in most situations it actually exposes more correctly than the AF-540, and it costs 1/3 the price! You can get a complete MPEX Strobist kit (light stand, umbrella, sync cables or wireless triggers) for far less than the price of an AF-540FGZ. If you're getting the flash unit for photography classes and you're on a student budget, don't waste money on a super high end P-TTL flash. Go for a flexible auto-thyristor flash with lots of manual flexibility (Viv 285HV, Sunpak 383) - in fact for the same price as an AF-540FGZ you can get three flashes like the 285HV and 383!

04-07-2008, 04:05 PM	#26
Rmpjr7 Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Nebraska Posts: 242	Another recommendation to at least strongly consider the Sunpak 383. Just tell the flash what ISO you are using and the how far the subject is from the camera, the flash will do the rest. In return, the camera will tell you what aperature to use. For the shutter speed, just set it to the highest speed that your camera could synchronize with an external flash. Only about $80. Bob

04-07-2008, 04:06 PM	#27
Mikhail Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: York Region, ON Posts: 277	Um personally I wouldnt be putting a SB24 on top of my Pentax camera unless all the pins but the centre one were removed or covered up in some fashion... you may not of had any ill effects yet but who knows... Enjoy your new toy! Thanks

04-07-2008, 10:12 PM	#28
benplaut Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central NY Posts: 268	Originally posted by Mikhail Um personally I wouldnt be putting a SB24 on top of my Pentax camera unless all the pins but the centre one were removed or covered up in some fashion... you may not of had any ill effects yet but who knows... Enjoy your new toy! Thanks It's fine. Really. Not only are the pins in slightly different places, but the hotshoe isn't affected when its pins are shorted together. I also checked the flash with a multimeter, none of the contacts volt back on firing except for the fire pin, which is ~4v (this is on a SB-80, close enough). YMMV

04-12-2008, 10:50 PM	#29
BBear Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CT / NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 822	Originally posted by kenyee rear/trailing curtain and HSS/FP mode requires a matching flash. Can someone elaborate on that? Are the Sunpack and Vivitar models recommended throughout the thread a "matching flash" ?

04-13-2008, 06:56 PM	#30
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	I don't know about trailing-curtain sync with non-PTTL flashes, I'd need to test that out. HSS is only possible with P-TTL flashes, and not even all of them. (All of the Pentax models I'm fairly certain, but not necessarily the third-party ones). That said, HSS is a relatively recent and niche feature (although it sure is nice when trying to overpower ambient! But you could just tie together three Viv 285HVs for the same price and simply overpower ambient with brute force.) Remember, high speed sync is NOT needed to stop action - in fact because it effectively increases the flash duration, it is the last thing you want if you want to stop movement.