inacurate metering...

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 03:53 AM

Well I've taken a few shots with my K10D, Ive noticed that especially where there is a lot of light say snow or a sky shot the metering is a good 1 stop lower than it should. if its say ground and sky its ok. its not a serious problem as I check the metering anyhow with a preview and adjust but I'm just wondering why its not as good as my old fuji digicam on manual but then again I didn't get it for good programming but a better quality camera.

I'm using multi segment metering as I don't want any blow outs

simonkit · 03-23-2008, 03:58 AM

I own the Samsung GX10 clone but find exactly the same, I normally meter in between +0.5/+1 EV - apparently Pentax deliberate "err on the side of caution" with highlights.

simon

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 04:02 AM

well its more than caution 1.5 EV under is a bit much I just went out in the snow and took shots at +1.5 EV and didn't blow anything the preview was visibly dark

the GX10 is a clone ?

benplaut · 03-23-2008, 04:07 AM

that will happen with any meter--it tries to take the image and average it out to neutral 18% grey. If there are a disproportionate amount of highlights (high-key), then you have to adjust with EV comp.

see:
Exposing Snow

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 04:37 AM

yea I guess thats the reason I havn't had any shots really ruined as I alwys check exsposure

Harald · 03-23-2008, 05:12 AM

Just as benplaut said, it is an feature, not an malfunction

Every camera has this feature due to a nature of exposure measurement itself. It has been discussed in every basic photography book since dinosaurs walked on the earth

You just have to learn how the exposure meter sees the picture in different conditions. After that EV correction is actually in K10D as easy as it can be, my humble opinion, if you set the front wheel to EV correction.

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 05:23 AM

well there wasn't much in the way of cameras around when the dinosaurs walked the earth (crunch crash - oh no the brachiosaraus stepped on my K10D quike use that new discovery erm whats it called, ah yes fire scare him away perhaps the lens is still ok...

)

yea changing exposure on the K10D is very easy its almost a pity it dosen't remeber the setting when turned off

benjikan · 03-23-2008, 05:25 AM

I tend to agree that I would rather be a bit under than over. I tend to always under expose 1/3rd to 1 stop. At least you can be sure of getting detail in the highlights.

Ben

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 05:29 AM

well I prefer to push as bright as possible and under exspose in PP

simonkit · 03-23-2008, 06:38 AM

I pretty much always shoot in AV...

Front dial set for exposure compensation, rear dial for aperture

Always check the histogram after 1st shot (RGB version) & then use front dial to set the +EV, I also prefer to push the highlights as far to the right as possible to capture the maximum detail from the shot.. just incase I push it too far I always shoot RAW & use autobracketing at -/+ 0.7 EV, better safe than sorry !!

Its the great thing about the K10D, it provides some many options/features that it certainly can make life easier for photographers, it does take a little getting used to though !!

Simon

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 07:06 AM

oh yes the K10D is very flexible and powerful and fast at least for my needs. I haven't used autobraketing yet but thats a good idea. I use the USER mode that is set on Av I'll keep my eye on the shutter speed myselt and ajust ISO if necesary or aperture if I can

dylansalt · 03-23-2008, 07:41 AM

Rule of thumb for any camera meter is for snow and beach if sun is shining

Good sunlight average exposure = F16 125s

Thus if you apertured at F11 your shutter speed should read 250sec, F8 500sec etc

We had to learn to see light and know the above permutations in our heads and no live preview etc only bracketing

Alternative meter off dark blue sky or back of hand as quick checks

d

Rickster · 03-23-2008, 09:06 AM

I still remember my first exercise from photography class about 40 years ago. We had to photograph an stark white cube so that it looked white, gray and black in 3 consecutive exposures.

Lessons learned?

1. The camera has no idea what you are shooting so a white cube against a white background and a black cat in a coal bin will both be imaged average gray if the camera is left to its own devices.

2. You determine what the image looks like by controlling the exposure irregardless of the source illumination and reflectance of the scene.

Case in point. When we photograph the moon we almost always expose for a very white surface when in fact the moons average surface brightness [albedo - see Albedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] is a very dark gray. [average 7%] We normally adjust our exposures of the moon to look just like it does to our naked eye. A very bright "white" object.

Which exposure do you think is "correct" ?

simons-photography · 03-23-2008, 09:17 AM

the lower one is thje most natural I'd call the higher one blown out

Rickster · 03-23-2008, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by simons-photography

the lower one is thje most natural I'd call the higher one blown out

Check your monitor settings. The upper does have specular highlights (as does the lower) but is no where near 'blown out'.

You can check you monitor here ... make sure it is adjusted so you can see all levels from a to z.

monitor

03-23-2008, 03:53 AM	#1
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496	inacurate metering... Well I've taken a few shots with my K10D, Ive noticed that especially where there is a lot of light say snow or a sky shot the metering is a good 1 stop lower than it should. if its say ground and sky its ok. its not a serious problem as I check the metering anyhow with a preview and adjust but I'm just wondering why its not as good as my old fuji digicam on manual but then again I didn't get it for good programming but a better quality camera. I'm using multi segment metering as I don't want any blow outs

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03-23-2008, 03:58 AM	#2
simonkit Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 645	I own the Samsung GX10 clone but find exactly the same, I normally meter in between +0.5/+1 EV - apparently Pentax deliberate "err on the side of caution" with highlights. simon

03-23-2008, 04:02 AM	#3
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496 Original Poster	well its more than caution 1.5 EV under is a bit much I just went out in the snow and took shots at +1.5 EV and didn't blow anything the preview was visibly dark the GX10 is a clone ?

03-23-2008, 04:07 AM	#4
benplaut Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central NY Posts: 268	that will happen with any meter--it tries to take the image and average it out to neutral 18% grey. If there are a disproportionate amount of highlights (high-key), then you have to adjust with EV comp. see: Exposing Snow

03-23-2008, 04:37 AM	#5
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496 Original Poster	yea I guess thats the reason I havn't had any shots really ruined as I alwys check exsposure

03-23-2008, 05:12 AM	#6
Harald Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 259	Just as benplaut said, it is an feature, not an malfunction Every camera has this feature due to a nature of exposure measurement itself. It has been discussed in every basic photography book since dinosaurs walked on the earth You just have to learn how the exposure meter sees the picture in different conditions. After that EV correction is actually in K10D as easy as it can be, my humble opinion, if you set the front wheel to EV correction.

03-23-2008, 05:23 AM	#7
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496 Original Poster	well there wasn't much in the way of cameras around when the dinosaurs walked the earth (crunch crash - oh no the brachiosaraus stepped on my K10D quike use that new discovery erm whats it called, ah yes fire scare him away perhaps the lens is still ok... ) yea changing exposure on the K10D is very easy its almost a pity it dosen't remeber the setting when turned off

03-23-2008, 05:25 AM	#8
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	I tend to agree that I would rather be a bit under than over. I tend to always under expose 1/3rd to 1 stop. At least you can be sure of getting detail in the highlights. Ben

03-23-2008, 05:29 AM	#9
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496 Original Poster	well I prefer to push as bright as possible and under exspose in PP

03-23-2008, 06:38 AM	#10
simonkit Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: North Wales, UK Posts: 645	I pretty much always shoot in AV... Front dial set for exposure compensation, rear dial for aperture Always check the histogram after 1st shot (RGB version) & then use front dial to set the +EV, I also prefer to push the highlights as far to the right as possible to capture the maximum detail from the shot.. just incase I push it too far I always shoot RAW & use autobracketing at -/+ 0.7 EV, better safe than sorry !! Its the great thing about the K10D, it provides some many options/features that it certainly can make life easier for photographers, it does take a little getting used to though !! Simon

03-23-2008, 07:06 AM	#11
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496 Original Poster	oh yes the K10D is very flexible and powerful and fast at least for my needs. I haven't used autobraketing yet but thats a good idea. I use the USER mode that is set on Av I'll keep my eye on the shutter speed myselt and ajust ISO if necesary or aperture if I can

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03-23-2008, 07:41 AM	#12
dylansalt Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,052	Rule of thumb for any camera meter is for snow and beach if sun is shining Good sunlight average exposure = F16 125s Thus if you apertured at F11 your shutter speed should read 250sec, F8 500sec etc We had to learn to see light and know the above permutations in our heads and no live preview etc only bracketing Alternative meter off dark blue sky or back of hand as quick checks d

03-23-2008, 09:06 AM	#13
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580	I still remember my first exercise from photography class about 40 years ago. We had to photograph an stark white cube so that it looked white, gray and black in 3 consecutive exposures. Lessons learned? 1. The camera has no idea what you are shooting so a white cube against a white background and a black cat in a coal bin will both be imaged average gray if the camera is left to its own devices. 2. You determine what the image looks like by controlling the exposure irregardless of the source illumination and reflectance of the scene. Case in point. When we photograph the moon we almost always expose for a very white surface when in fact the moons average surface brightness [albedo - see Albedo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia] is a very dark gray. [average 7%] We normally adjust our exposures of the moon to look just like it does to our naked eye. A very bright "white" object. Which exposure do you think is "correct" ?

03-23-2008, 09:17 AM	#14
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496 Original Poster	the lower one is thje most natural I'd call the higher one blown out

03-23-2008, 09:48 AM	#15
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580	Originally posted by simons-photography the lower one is thje most natural I'd call the higher one blown out Check your monitor settings. The upper does have specular highlights (as does the lower) but is no where near 'blown out'. You can check you monitor here ... make sure it is adjusted so you can see all levels from a to z. monitor