K20D some images are striped

spe · 03-23-2008, 01:42 PM

Playing around with the K20d of the friend of mine, I've noticed that some of the images made in different situations have same striped pattern. This pattern clearly visible and quite unpleasant thing to have on the shot. Reasons causing it to appear seems to be irrelevant to anything, because you can make several shots with the same parameters but not all of them will have such pattern. Changing output file type also not changes nothing, stripes may appear as well in jpeg and any RAW files.
Did anybody had such problem, and what kind of solution ( except of servicing or changing camera) can be used if any.

thnks

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

pentkon52 · 03-23-2008, 02:22 PM

Can you elaborate and tell us what the settings, shooting conditions, iso etc are.

Dave

**Mallee Boy** · 03-23-2008, 02:26 PM

Please post the original shot, uncropped. Thanks.

**Ash** · 03-23-2008, 02:27 PM

Settings might be relevant here.
? High ISO noise

I've had a few shots from my K100D/K10D feature colour noise banding of this sort (hard to tell on yours - you may need to attach a larger image to see it more clearly), but it mainly happened at high ISO and underexposed areas of the photo, especially at night or low light areas. K20D should be less prone to this.

If you're saying several shots taken with the same settings under the same conditions give you different results, then something else may be going on - keep testing it and let us know.

spe · 03-23-2008, 02:28 PM

EXIF data is present in the crop above( originally image shot in DNG)
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K20D
XResolution - 240
YResolution - 240
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K20D Ver 1.00
DateTime - 2008:03:23 21:20:01
Artist - Vlad
ExifOffset - 210
ExposureTime - 1/15 seconds
FNumber - 4.50
ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 800
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2008:03:23 00:00:00
DateTimeDigitized - 2008:03:23 00:00:00
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/15 seconds
ApertureValue - F 4.50
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 37.50 mm
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 57 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Close view

Other shots where I've noticed the same issue were shot in JPEG with "four star" quality, EXIF data is below:
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K20D
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K20D Ver 1.00
DateTime - 2008:03:22 10:46:11
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 692
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 27 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view
ExposureTime - 1/180 seconds
FNumber - 5.60
ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2008:03:22 10:46:11
DateTimeDigitized - 2008:03:22 10:46:11
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 18.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3104
ExifImageHeight - 4672
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera
SceneType - A directly photographed image

Maker Note (Vendor): -

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 54352
JpegIFByteCount - 7418

and

Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K20D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K20D Ver 1.00
DateTime - 2008:03:22 10:29:50
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 598
ExposureTime - 1/500 seconds
FNumber - 5.60
ExposureProgram - Aperture priority
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2008:03:22 10:29:50
DateTimeDigitized - 2008:03:22 10:29:50
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Multi-segment
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 47.50 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 4672
ExifImageHeight - 3104
InteroperabilityOffset - 54284
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - Other
SceneType - Other
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 72 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Mode - Auto
Quality - Best
ISO - 200
White Balance - Auto

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 54408
JpegIFByteCount - 6313

spe · 03-23-2008, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Settings might be relevant here.
? High ISO noise

I've had a few shots from my K100D/K10D feature colour noise banding of this sort (hard to tell on yours - you may need to attach a larger image to see it more clearly), but it mainly happened at high ISO and underexposed areas of the photo, especially at night or low light areas. K20D should be less prone to this.

If you're saying several shots taken with the same settings under the same conditions give you different results, then something else may be going on - keep testing it and let us know.

Not necessary high ISO noise, as you can see from data above two shots were done at ISO 200 which is not too high, and there were no underexposure.

I'll try to test more, but as I said, camera is not mine i just tried to take up my mind on possible switch from Ds to K20 and used my friend's camera just to play with, so throurough test maybe not so easy to do.

spe · 03-23-2008, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by GWP

Please post the original shot, uncropped. Thanks.

Not this one, just because of that file which was cropped not mine, and person on it maybe not so happy about posting it here

but the other one plain cityscape can be found here

**Ash** · 03-23-2008, 02:47 PM

The shot above was at ISO 800 Tv 1/15 with lots of underexposed areas, but probably not enough to bring out noise, even without NR.

If you're considering buying a K20D, don't use this as a reason not to.
Try posting a couple of larger sized images of the same thing with the same settings, one with this mysterious banding and one without.

*isteve · 03-23-2008, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by spe

Playing around with the K20d of the friend of mine, I've noticed that some of the images made in different situations have same striped pattern. This pattern clearly visible and quite unpleasant thing to have on the shot. Reasons causing it to appear seems to be irrelevant to anything, because you can make several shots with the same parameters but not all of them will have such pattern. Changing output file type also not changes nothing, stripes may appear as well in jpeg and any RAW files.
Did anybody had such problem, and what kind of solution ( except of servicing or changing camera) can be used if any.

thnks

Looks like a typical RF interference pattern more obvious in high ISO shots in shadow areas. This can be created by passing cars (with failing plug leads), mobile phones, etc. In some cases (Nikon D200 I seem to remember) it was caused by the lens motor in AFC mode. Nothing much you can do, but thats why it does not appear in every shot. All cameras are somewhat susceptible.

There was one concert I shot where every shot showed the same pattern. Camera was a Minolta Dimage 7i. I never saw it again, so I assume there was some strong RF source at the gig - possibly radio mikes.

spe · 03-24-2008, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by *isteve

Looks like a typical RF interference pattern more obvious in high ISO shots in shadow areas. This can be created by passing cars (with failing plug leads), mobile phones, etc. In some cases (Nikon D200 I seem to remember) it was caused by the lens motor in AFC mode. Nothing much you can do, but thats why it does not appear in every shot. All cameras are somewhat susceptible.

There was one concert I shot where every shot showed the same pattern. Camera was a Minolta Dimage 7i. I never saw it again, so I assume there was some strong RF source at the gig - possibly radio mikes.

Maybe, but the pattern appears in different places, for example that walkaway shot was done in place were no cars passing by at least in 100-200 m radius, not so sure about mobile phone base stations but in town you can hardly find a place without them , and I don't think that mobile phone was too close to the camera anyway ( no BT devices like headphone were used). The main problem is that my Ds never showed such pattern under any situation, even when I was taken shot near to the port and military radar stations.

phler2 · 04-05-2008, 10:50 AM

Hi there,

i had not seen this post before starting a new thread :
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/24253-k20d-dithering-problem.html

i also get the problem, as i say in my last post on the other thread. that happens only for the first image after turning on the camera.

i was shooting far from any RF noise source, in the adirondacks

in my opinion it is an initialisation problem, and it happens on the processing of the image, perhaps during the bayer matrix conversion as it is clearly a vertical sinus cardinal appearing over all the image

i wish a pentax engineer would have a look at that

for the moment, i keep the camera on, and always shoot a first image to make sure i don't get the problem

nostatic · 04-05-2008, 11:24 AM

I noticed this on one of my shots. I have to go back into Aperture and make sure it is from the K20d and check the exif data but given the f stop I'm pretty sure it is the K20d with 77ltd.

simons-photography · 04-05-2008, 11:32 AM

cmos uses less power more supceptable to interfearance but isn't the cmaera metal ? screening it from RF ?

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03-23-2008, 02:22 PM	#2
pentkon52 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: York Region Canada Posts: 641	Can you elaborate and tell us what the settings, shooting conditions, iso etc are. Dave

03-23-2008, 02:26 PM	#3
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Please post the original shot, uncropped. Thanks.

03-23-2008, 02:27 PM	#4
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Settings might be relevant here. ? High ISO noise I've had a few shots from my K100D/K10D feature colour noise banding of this sort (hard to tell on yours - you may need to attach a larger image to see it more clearly), but it mainly happened at high ISO and underexposed areas of the photo, especially at night or low light areas. K20D should be less prone to this. If you're saying several shots taken with the same settings under the same conditions give you different results, then something else may be going on - keep testing it and let us know.

03-23-2008, 02:28 PM	#5
spe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 27 Original Poster	EXIF data is present in the crop above( originally image shot in DNG) Make - PENTAX Corporation Model - PENTAX K20D XResolution - 240 YResolution - 240 ResolutionUnit - Inch Software - K20D Ver 1.00 DateTime - 2008:03:23 21:20:01 Artist - Vlad ExifOffset - 210 ExposureTime - 1/15 seconds FNumber - 4.50 ExposureProgram - Aperture priority ISOSpeedRatings - 800 ExifVersion - 0221 DateTimeOriginal - 2008:03:23 00:00:00 DateTimeDigitized - 2008:03:23 00:00:00 ShutterSpeedValue - 1/15 seconds ApertureValue - F 4.50 ExposureBiasValue - 0.00 MeteringMode - Multi-segment Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode FocalLength - 37.50 mm SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor CustomRendered - Normal process ExposureMode - Auto White Balance - Auto FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 57 mm SceneCaptureType - Standard Contrast - Hard Saturation - Normal Sharpness - Hard SubjectDistanceRange - Close view Other shots where I've noticed the same issue were shot in JPEG with "four star" quality, EXIF data is below: Make - PENTAX Corporation Model - PENTAX K20D XResolution - 72 YResolution - 72 ResolutionUnit - Inch Software - K20D Ver 1.00 DateTime - 2008:03:22 10:46:11 YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited ExifOffset - 692 CustomRendered - Normal process ExposureMode - Auto White Balance - Auto FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 27 mm SceneCaptureType - Standard Contrast - Hard Saturation - Normal Sharpness - Hard SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view ExposureTime - 1/180 seconds FNumber - 5.60 ExposureProgram - Aperture priority ISOSpeedRatings - 200 ExifVersion - 0221 DateTimeOriginal - 2008:03:22 10:46:11 DateTimeDigitized - 2008:03:22 10:46:11 ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr ExposureBiasValue - 0.00 MeteringMode - Multi-segment Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode FocalLength - 18.00 mm FlashPixVersion - 0100 ColorSpace - sRGB ExifImageWidth - 3104 ExifImageHeight - 4672 SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera SceneType - A directly photographed image Maker Note (Vendor): - Thumbnail: - Compression - 6 (JPG) XResolution - 72 YResolution - 72 ResolutionUnit - Inch JpegIFOffset - 54352 JpegIFByteCount - 7418 and Make - PENTAX Corporation Model - PENTAX K20D Orientation - Top left XResolution - 72 YResolution - 72 ResolutionUnit - Inch Software - K20D Ver 1.00 DateTime - 2008:03:22 10:29:50 YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited ExifOffset - 598 ExposureTime - 1/500 seconds FNumber - 5.60 ExposureProgram - Aperture priority ISOSpeedRatings - 200 ExifVersion - 0221 DateTimeOriginal - 2008:03:22 10:29:50 DateTimeDigitized - 2008:03:22 10:29:50 ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr ExposureBiasValue - 0.00 MeteringMode - Multi-segment Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode FocalLength - 47.50 mm FlashPixVersion - 0100 ColorSpace - sRGB ExifImageWidth - 4672 ExifImageHeight - 3104 InteroperabilityOffset - 54284 SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor FileSource - Other SceneType - Other CustomRendered - Normal process ExposureMode - Auto White Balance - Auto FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 72 mm SceneCaptureType - Standard Contrast - Hard Saturation - Normal Sharpness - Hard SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view Maker Note (Vendor): - Mode - Auto Quality - Best ISO - 200 White Balance - Auto Thumbnail: - Compression - 6 (JPG) XResolution - 72 YResolution - 72 ResolutionUnit - Inch JpegIFOffset - 54408 JpegIFByteCount - 6313

03-23-2008, 02:33 PM	#6
spe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 27 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ash Settings might be relevant here. ? High ISO noise I've had a few shots from my K100D/K10D feature colour noise banding of this sort (hard to tell on yours - you may need to attach a larger image to see it more clearly), but it mainly happened at high ISO and underexposed areas of the photo, especially at night or low light areas. K20D should be less prone to this. If you're saying several shots taken with the same settings under the same conditions give you different results, then something else may be going on - keep testing it and let us know. Not necessary high ISO noise, as you can see from data above two shots were done at ISO 200 which is not too high, and there were no underexposure. I'll try to test more, but as I said, camera is not mine i just tried to take up my mind on possible switch from Ds to K20 and used my friend's camera just to play with, so throurough test maybe not so easy to do.

03-23-2008, 02:45 PM	#7
spe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 27 Original Poster	Originally posted by GWP Please post the original shot, uncropped. Thanks. Not this one, just because of that file which was cropped not mine, and person on it maybe not so happy about posting it here but the other one plain cityscape can be found here

03-23-2008, 02:47 PM	#8
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	The shot above was at ISO 800 Tv 1/15 with lots of underexposed areas, but probably not enough to bring out noise, even without NR. If you're considering buying a K20D, don't use this as a reason not to. Try posting a couple of larger sized images of the same thing with the same settings, one with this mysterious banding and one without.

03-23-2008, 04:40 PM	#9
*isteve Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 1,187	Originally posted by spe Playing around with the K20d of the friend of mine, I've noticed that some of the images made in different situations have same striped pattern. This pattern clearly visible and quite unpleasant thing to have on the shot. Reasons causing it to appear seems to be irrelevant to anything, because you can make several shots with the same parameters but not all of them will have such pattern. Changing output file type also not changes nothing, stripes may appear as well in jpeg and any RAW files. Did anybody had such problem, and what kind of solution ( except of servicing or changing camera) can be used if any. thnks Looks like a typical RF interference pattern more obvious in high ISO shots in shadow areas. This can be created by passing cars (with failing plug leads), mobile phones, etc. In some cases (Nikon D200 I seem to remember) it was caused by the lens motor in AFC mode. Nothing much you can do, but thats why it does not appear in every shot. All cameras are somewhat susceptible. There was one concert I shot where every shot showed the same pattern. Camera was a Minolta Dimage 7i. I never saw it again, so I assume there was some strong RF source at the gig - possibly radio mikes.

03-24-2008, 03:57 AM	#10
spe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 27 Original Poster	Originally posted by *isteve Looks like a typical RF interference pattern more obvious in high ISO shots in shadow areas. This can be created by passing cars (with failing plug leads), mobile phones, etc. In some cases (Nikon D200 I seem to remember) it was caused by the lens motor in AFC mode. Nothing much you can do, but thats why it does not appear in every shot. All cameras are somewhat susceptible. There was one concert I shot where every shot showed the same pattern. Camera was a Minolta Dimage 7i. I never saw it again, so I assume there was some strong RF source at the gig - possibly radio mikes. Maybe, but the pattern appears in different places, for example that walkaway shot was done in place were no cars passing by at least in 100-200 m radius, not so sure about mobile phone base stations but in town you can hardly find a place without them , and I don't think that mobile phone was too close to the camera anyway ( no BT devices like headphone were used). The main problem is that my Ds never showed such pattern under any situation, even when I was taken shot near to the port and military radar stations.

04-05-2008, 10:50 AM	#11
phler2 Giveaway winner! Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 48	Hi there, i had not seen this post before starting a new thread : https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/24253-k20d-dithering-problem.html i also get the problem, as i say in my last post on the other thread. that happens only for the first image after turning on the camera. i was shooting far from any RF noise source, in the adirondacks in my opinion it is an initialisation problem, and it happens on the processing of the image, perhaps during the bayer matrix conversion as it is clearly a vertical sinus cardinal appearing over all the image i wish a pentax engineer would have a look at that for the moment, i keep the camera on, and always shoot a first image to make sure i don't get the problem

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04-05-2008, 11:24 AM	#12
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	I noticed this on one of my shots. I have to go back into Aperture and make sure it is from the K20d and check the exif data but given the f stop I'm pretty sure it is the K20d with 77ltd.

04-05-2008, 11:32 AM	#13
simons-photography Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Northamptonshire - England Photos: Gallery Posts: 496	cmos uses less power more supceptable to interfearance but isn't the cmaera metal ? screening it from RF ?